S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition. On today's show , the government shutdown , local impact and military reaction. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. We'll talk about the deep impacts of the shutdown here in San Diego and across California. Meanwhile , active duty troops are now working without pay. How they're receiving that news , along with yesterday's meeting with top brass. That's ahead on midday edition. The government is shut down after Senate Republicans and Democrats failed to reach an agreement on government funding. Now , around 750,000 federal workers are expected to be furloughed. Many offices will be shuttered in the San Diego region. Tens of thousands of federal workers will be furloughed or forced to work without pay , and that's according to figures from Democrats on the House Budget Committee. Congressman Mike Levin joins me now to discuss the impact of the shutdown here in San Diego County. He represents the 49th district , which includes parts of San Diego's North County and South Orange County. Congressman , welcome.
S2: Thank you. Jade , good to be with you.
S1: Nice to have you.
S2: And then I know what the director of the budget office , Russ Vogt , is saying. He is planning to do. And those two things are very different. Let me take just a second and explain. Normally you would have the federal government declare some workers essential and some non-essential. The essential workers would be asked to work without pay and the non-essential would be furloughed. In any event , all those workers would be paid as soon as the government reopens. That's fundamentally different from what OMB Director Russ Vogt is threatening to do. He wants a wide scale reduction in force , a firing of thousands and thousands of federal workers. And in effect , he wants to use this shutdown to carry out the project 2025 agenda , of which he was a key architect. In my view , Jade , what he is threatening to do is illegal and unconstitutional. There's already a lawsuit that's been filed in district court by federal workers to try to preemptively stop this from happening , and my understanding is that vote in a private meeting with House Republicans just said that he intends to start massive firing in just a few days. We're going to do everything we can to fight that , to prevent that from happening. But it's the latest example of this administration really going way over the line when it comes to the law and when it comes to the Constitution. And it's got to be stopped in the courts , we're going to do everything we can to fight in Congress as well.
S1: Two questions for you here.
S2: You know , I think that it's fairly clear what Vogt wants to do is carry out the president's agenda. And even if that means violate the law and violate the Constitution. So things like , uh , defense , other top priorities of this administration , I imagine , would be spared. But other agencies or roles that are not considered favorable to the administration , uh , would be , uh , would be , uh , eliminated. And at the end of the day , this is all , uh , completely not the right or responsibility of the executive branch. Congress. Congress approves the funds , authorizes the programs , and ultimately makes decisions about , uh , federal programs. And and , uh , what we will absolutely see is , I think a court enjoin such a move by vote. I think we will see those employees rehired and back pay provided , all , of course , at taxpayer expense. More chaos from the administration.
S1: Well , Congressman , I mean , is could San Diego be uniquely impacted if there should be mass firings , given that we have such a large population of federal workers.
S2: Well , potentially Jade. But again , I think it comes down to the priorities of this administration , to the extent that a lot of those workers are defense related , at least the rhetoric from the administration is that those would be , you know , folks that would be less likely to be fired. But we're going to keep a very close eye on it , because what we know from nine months of this second chaotic Trump administration , the rhetoric doesn't often meet the reality on the ground.
S1: Now , what does the the fight look like ? You mentioned the Democrats are going to fight these firings.
S2: If we can't come to a bipartisan agreement around extending a policy that reduces Affordable Care Act premiums. There was an independent analysis just yesterday by the Kaiser Family Foundation that said that if no action is taken , the average premium would go from roughly $900 a year today to over $1,900 a year next year. That's a 114% increase. For one example , a family , a 60 year old couple making $85,000 a year. They would have to pay an extra $22,600 for their health care next year. It's simply unacceptable and what you'll see as a result , the estimate is roughly 660,000. Californians on covered California will be priced out of the market. They will not sign up again for health insurance 5 million nationwide. And all we are asking is let's step in on a bipartisan basis and prevent that from happening. There are Republicans in the House who've introduced legislation , along with many of us on the Democratic side , that want to work together. But this speaker , Mike Johnson , appears to do whatever the administration , whatever the president wants , rather than a lot of times what his own members want. Jade so we're stuck. We're stuck right now , and we've got to get back to some bipartisan common ground. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Um , Congressman , you know , of course we know and understand why this shutdown is happening.
S2: And I know that a a district court lawsuit was just filed yesterday in anticipation of what might happen , what what Russ Vogt might intend to do. I can tell you that I'm already on probably around 15 amicus briefs of different cases being adjudicated through the federal courts , and this would certainly be 16. You know , I would absolutely try to assist with an amicus brief in any way possible. But again , it's litigation. It's communication. It's mobilization. We don't have the majority obviously , right now in the Congress , but we do have other tools in the toolkit. And I will do everything I can to fight for these federal workers. These are workers that do everything from process , our Social Security and veterans benefits to keep our air and water clean , to make sure that we are we have food safety , I mean , you name it. And to to demonize to Philonise the federal workforce writ large as this administration is doing in this reckless , illegal , unconstitutional way is just beyond the pale.
S1: You mentioned the tax credits. And under the Inflation Reduction Act , those health insurance credits were set to end at the end of 2025.
S2: We were only able to have the tax credits extend to that budget window to to the end of the following fiscal year , and then on and to the end of the the calendar year. And so originally it was 2021 that the the credits were put in place as part of the American Rescue Plan , then extended as part of the Inflation Reduction Act. But so long as we're using budget reconciliation , we're bound by those rules. What I would like to see instead is a bipartisan vote to extend those credits permanently , or at least longer term , that the the costs associated with doing so pales in comparison to millions of people falling off the health care system , which increases premiums and out-of-pocket expenses for everyone , for everyone , not just those on the Affordable Care Act. Jade. But if you have health insurance at all , if it's employer sponsored health insurance , if it's private health insurance , all will be impacted. And just the same , because of what the Republicans did with their reconciliation bill this past summer , just a few months ago. It's not just the ACA. It's not just Medicaid , it's Medicare as well. They added $3 trillion to the debt , meaning there'll be a mandatory half $1 trillion cut to Medicare. So everyone's health care will be made worse because of what the Republicans did this past summer. We are fighting about the ACA right now. We are advocating to extend the credit for the ACA right now , because people are receiving notices now in October , they will receive a notice of how much higher their premiums will go in 2026. And again , what we are hearing is an average an average of 114%. That is simply unacceptable.
S1: As this fight continues and the shutdown continues as we speak , five local organizations are holding a press conference about how they will help military members whose paychecks will be delayed. During this shutdown , one of those organizations is feeding San Diego.
S2: And I'd like to see a floor vote on that legislation. That being said , you're absolutely right that organizations like Feeding San Diego are going to be hard hit , uh , in the event of a shutdown or even in the event of this budget. And the the Republican bill from this past summer , which decimates Snap and food assistance , that will really hurt millions of Americans who are right on the edge. You know , everybody in Washington is talking a good game about lowering prices , but what the Republicans have done will actually increase health care costs. What they've done on tariffs increases grocery costs and food costs. So , you know , for all the promises made during the campaign , all I see for the average San Diegan are higher prices as a result of the policies of this administration.
S1:
S2: Jade. And look , I am here in Washington , DC and have been this week ready to negotiate in good faith. I'm on the Appropriations Committee. I'm even on the conference committee , as selected by the ranking member of the Appropriations Committee , to negotiate on a bipartisan basis , to find those areas of common ground and to reach agreement on spending. But the reality is that Republicans aren't even here. The speaker of the House decided to keep his members home , and I have no idea why that would be. I think that's a huge dereliction of duty. I think it's completely the wrong move. And look , we're not going to agree on everything Democrats and Republicans. But on Monday , when the president finally had the congressional leaders into his office , what we heard the readout that we got is that the president , without the cameras rolling , was mostly in listening mode. He wasn't in dealmaking mode. He wasn't offering much substance. He was in listening mode. And then our leader , Hakeem Jeffries , came and briefed us on that , that that discussion with even a bit of optimism about maybe , uh , the discussion around the ACA tax credits that had actually broken through. It was only a few hours later that the president then launched the first of these mean spirited , uh , childish , incredibly disturbing social media posts denigrating Hakeem Jeffries and Leader Schumer , making it all but impossible for us to have any kind of good faith negotiation at the 11th hour on Tuesday. Now , of course , even if the Senate had come to an agreement at the 11th hour , that would have required then the House to consider whatever they agreed to. And Johnson didn't even have his people here. So the whole thing was just entirely unserious on the part of both the president of United States and the speaker of the House , the House , neither of whom are exhibiting any leadership whatsoever in this moment.
S1:
S2: I want a resolution just as badly. And we absolutely have to find bipartisan common ground in this country. We are not a dictatorship. This is not an authoritarian state. The budget director doesn't get to unilaterally fire thousands of people just because those jobs do not support the specific agenda of that president. That's not how it works in the United States of America. We are a co-equal branch of government. Article one of the Constitution says again , it is Congress that authorizes the programs and appropriates the funds. And Republicans in Congress should stand up for their oath and for the equal power of the House of Representatives against a reckless , out of control administration that is hell bent on more than doubling health care premiums for those on the Affordable Care Act. Health care for millions of Americans. Jade is worth the fight.
S1: I've been speaking with Congressman Mike Levin. He represents the 49th district , which includes parts of San Diego's North County and South Orange County. Congressman , thank you so much.
S2: Thanks for having me , Jade.
S1: The Midday Edition team is also invited representative Darrell Issa of the 48th district on the show today. He was not available for an interview , but we are expecting a statement from him after today's show. You'll be able to find that on our website at pbs.org. We also have an open invite for Darrell Issa to join our show for a future interview. Coming up next , the broader picture of how this shutdown will impact California. KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. We just heard from local Congressman Mike Levin on his reaction to the government shutdown. Well , now we want to look a bit closer at what the shutdown means for California. Joining me now is Adam Ashton. He is deputy editor with Cal Matters. Adam , welcome to Midday Edition.
S3: Hi there. Thanks for having me.
S1: Thanks so much for joining us. In a recent story , Cal Matters looked into all the different ways a government shutdown will impact the lives of Californians , from health care to national parks. So I want to start with Social security , social security and health care. I mean , what do we need to know about how those may be impacted ? Right.
S3: That's the most important thing. If you're depending on Social Security , you want to make sure that that money is coming. Um , as with past shutdowns , the checks are supposed to keep flowing from Social Security , and there should not be an interruption in Medicare. Uh , the caveat is , is , um , you know , government workers are being furloughed. Many of them are being told they're not essential. So depending on how many federal workers are told to stay home in Social Security , uh , you could wind up having customer service issues and you might have a delay in getting a response. Um , and those circumstances , the best advice is to call your congressman and , uh , and try to get constituent assistance. Um , but the groups who advocate for Social Security and Medicare are concerned that that customer service would decline. If this drags out over weeks.
S1:
S3: The firefighters will be there. FEMA will get there in an emergency. The thing that that that hurts is that the long term planning ends. The workers who are not doing immediate crises are on are being told to stay home. So that would hinder long term plans between California and the federal government for disaster preparation and hold up money like grants coming down the line. Yeah , for those services. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Um , well , what about potential impacts to travel ? We hear a lot about that. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. I mean , I think that in this shutdown , the big question is how federal workers are feeling after all of the cuts they had earlier this year. So they've already they've endured a lot this year , and now they're going to not be paid for some period of time. Uh , so in the immediate future , uh , you know , airports are open. Amtrak's open , TSA is operating. Air traffic controllers are there. If this drags out. Will some of them call in sick ? Well , they lose morale and and take sick days. In that case , you might start to see delays. The travel industry is concerned about a shutdown because it does discourage people from traveling , and delays will occur the longer this goes on. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Uh , California has about nine national parks.
S3: So during the 2013 shutdown , during the Obama administration , national parks were shut down. You couldn't go in. Uh , and that was what the administration felt was appropriate to protect the parks , uh , when the government shut down during the Trump administration the first time. The first Trump administration , they left the gates open and there was not really staff. So maybe you remember there were lots of pictures of garbage piles mounting at different national parks , like Joshua Tree and Yosemite , because people were going to the parks , but there was no one there to clean up and maintain the parks. This time they're having like a partial shutdown. So some national parks employees are on staff. They're meant to keep the bathrooms open , prevent the garbage from piling up. But the visitor centers are closed down. And if and if and if so many people go that there's a safety risk. The National Park Service is expected to close down parks , but right now they're partially open.
S1: You know , it's like one thing impacts another thing.
S3: I'm in Sacramento. We've had some rain , so I feel good about that. Um , I don't know how you are down there , but sure , yeah , people are out there and being boneheaded and not paying attention to to the grounds. Yeah , sure. That you could you could have a disaster and accident happen that way. I could see that. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , um , you know how many Californians are at risk of not being paid during this shutdown ? Just curious on that one.
S3: Oh , dear. Yes. I mean , this is where it really hurts our local economies. There are 150,000 civilian federal employees in California. They won't be paid. Who knows how long. We also have about 160,000 military service members who will not be paid for again for the foreseeable future. I understand they were paid today , but they would not get paid October 15th. Hmm. So in your community , that's that's really serious. You have about 130,000 sailors and Marines who won't be getting paid if this drags out. Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S3: People were uncertain what they could do. There was a lot of anxiety. Uh , even for civilians , civilian workers , if they were told to stay home and told they were not essential , that raised concerns for them about how long they would have their jobs. I mean , you wouldn't like to be told you're not essential at your work. Um , so even if they kept their jobs , they kind of made a lingering morale problem. So for your community. Yeah. I'm sure people won't be going out , uh , if they're not going to get paid to , to keep , uh , to keep to keep their households , uh , to keep their household budgets in order. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Yeah. Well , you mentioned , uh , essential workers and nonessential workers.
S3: You know , I was reading Military Times just to get ready for this interview. And these decisions come down at the last minute. You don't know. It could be. It could be last night. Could be today. You're told by the year , essential or not essential. Each military installation is making decisions differently. In some cases , childcare is open. In some cases it might not be. So that's that's pretty difficult for families to navigate. Um , yes. You would not know if you're essential or not until , until until your boss tells you that answer that. That must mean it's different for every agency.
S1: Yeah , that uncertainty must be a source of stress for a lot of workers.
S3: I think in the Obama presidency there was more telegraphing of what would shut down. And I think that reflects the democratic worldview. Like when the government shuts down , you're going to lose these things you like. And won't you be upset if the government shuts down in a Republican administration ? I think there is more of an emphasis on powering through and saying. Maybe we didn't need this many workers. Anyway , um , so there's less telegraphing of what will close , uh , prior to the shutdown , at least in my my observation , watching these three shutdowns , uh , in the last dozen years here.
S1: Do you have a sense of , like , which types of federal workers are deemed essential and which are not typically.
S3: Um , you know , so , again , emergency personnel , people with security jobs , they have the , the everyone in the military , everyone in uniform is essential. They're working. They're just not being paid. Uh , beyond that , uh , it's how many people the Social Security have to have on staff to make sure the checks go out. Um , how many people does the Navy Hospital have to have on staff to be prepared for the people who have medical emergencies or medical appointments that can't be delayed ? Uh , those decisions come down pretty late in this process each time. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Um , you know , earlier you mentioned that you've covered past shutdowns. What did you learn from those past shutdowns that maybe we should be keeping in mind today.
S3: Yeah , I was really struck again from 2013 about how people felt about being told they were not essential and what that how that changed their how that affected their view of their coworkers. It's just not not pleasant to be told you're not essential. You think of yourselves as doing a good job and being critical to whatever your agency is. And then suddenly you're told to stay home while other people come in. Um , that doesn't really affect taxpayers. I just thought that was really interesting. Something that was unexpected. Um , for taxpayers , I would be concerned about about long term damage to to these agencies , especially after the tumult they've had this year with staffing cuts just across the board of the federal government. Hmm.
S1: Hmm.
S3: They will get paid in the end , right ? Wonder the deal. They will get back pay. They're made whole. Yeah , eventually. But if this goes on for three , 4 or 5 weeks , then you have. You have a hard time managing your house , I'm sure. Um. Uh , so how long can you hold out ? Is the is the question there ? Um , I don't I don't know. I mean , government jobs. People are drawn to them for the stability usually. So I mean , I don't think you'd be quick to leave if you were , if you thought you had a good thing. Um , uh , but , um , but , yeah , I mean , it would it would cause you to look at your coworkers differently and think about maybe thinking about a job change.
S1: Yeah , well , you know it. You mentioned it really kind of depends on how long a shutdown is. I'm also curious about , um , you know , things like health care that may not be impacted in the near term , but how does the picture change if this is a lengthy shutdown.
S3: On health care ? There are some immediate impacts. Um , we reported that , um , tribes who rely on federal funding for health care will could have an immediate impact in the availability of health care. Um , more long term. Um. I don't think you would see sea problems right away. Uh , there are there will be a diminishment of social services like food stamps or whic that could happen , uh , hasn't been said yet , but that that might be something that happens soon. Um , I think that the issue with Medicare and Medicaid will be more long term. Uh , like , if people aren't going to work , that means that the long term planning isn't happening. The contracts aren't being written. The grants aren't going to be administered. Um , but I don't think it would come down to your ability to go to the hospital or get reimbursed through your insurance. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Well , earlier we kind of touched on how some organizations that typically provide assistance to people who are trying to sort of bridge that gap and make ends meet , like feeding San Diego , for example. Already federal cuts had taken some money out of those programs.
S3: Um , because there's fewer , fewer people or just the organizations that were disrupted this year when Doge came in. They've all they've all gone through major changes. Um , so it's going to it's going to feel different than the last two in that sense that , I mean , we're not going back to normal. It's going to be a different , different feel after the end of this shutdown.
S1: Well , something will certainly be watching and keeping an eye on. I've been speaking with Kal Matters deputy editor , Adam Ashton. Adam , thank you so much for your insight today.
S3: Thanks for inviting me. Have a good day.
S1: You too. Coming up , we hear about a shift in policy for the U.S. military after yesterday's meeting with Hegseth and military leaders. KPBS is back after the break. Welcome back. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. All right. Yesterday , President Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gathered hundreds of military leaders and Marine Corps Base Quantico , Virginia , in what is being described as a highly unusual meeting.
S4: Well , today is another liberation day , the liberation of America's warriors. In name indeed , and in authorities. You kill people and break things for a living. You are not politically correct and don't necessarily belong always in polite society.
S1: There , Hegseth also announced a series of new directives for troops in his effort to overhaul military culture. From what he says is woke garbage to a warrior ethos. His words. I'm here live with KPBS military and veteran affairs reporter Andrew Dyer to talk about some of his big takeaways and what these policies could mean for San Diego. Andrew , welcome to the show.
S5: Thanks for having me.
S1: Always glad to have you on. So before we get into the weeds of this meeting , I have to ask about the shutdown and its impact on the military here.
S5: Right ? So , um , you , your last guest said folks got paid on the first , but that pay paycheck on the 15th is up in the air. So , um , you know , it creates uncertainty and anxiety for these military families. Um , a lot of them are either single income or they rely on that military income as their primary , uh , income. So , um , with that not being certain , you don't know what's coming. So , um , in the past , we've seen certain financial organizations like Navy Federal or USAA kind of , you know , bend the rules a little bit and give people a little bit of time for certain bills. Um , but I haven't seen anything specific to that so far with this shutdown. But , um , I can imagine as the closer we get to that payday and it not happening , we'll start to see , um , a ratcheting up of those kind of efforts. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , hopefully that bending of the rules and , and really just grace is something that will , will grow in this time. You know , we touched on this earlier in the hour , but programs and organizations like Feeding San Diego have have been hit by federal funding cuts already. And some of those provide assistance to military and federal workers in situations where the government shuts down and they're not getting paid.
S5: So we're probably in a bit of a better position to weather this than maybe some locations that maybe just have the one base or they don't have such a robust support network. Um , but , uh , yeah , it's going to be , uh , taxing for these organizations as well. We're coming into the holidays where they usually get a lot of , um , do a lot of their assistance work. So , um , who knows how that affects things down the road. But , um , I have a lot of confidence in the nonprofit network in San Diego. Um , I talked to these folks , and I've done stories with them. And , um , you know , this is kind of what they're they're there for.
S6: Well , well.
S1: Back to this Trump and Hegseth military gathering. Uh , there was a lot of intense speculation leading up to it. Many people have described it as unprecedented. Are Our gatherings like this. Unusual ? Yes.
S5: You had basically , from what I've been told , every person with a star on their shoulder , every general , every admiral from across the globe was summoned to to Virginia with their senior enlisted advisors to participate in this speech , this this meeting. Um , so you have when I when I say that we're talking about fleet commanders , um , you know , the Pacific Fleet , commander , the seventh fleet , commander , Indo-Pacific , uh , fifth fleet , which is the Middle East. Um , that is a I don't know if you've kept up with the news , but the Middle East is a bit of a hot spot in the globe in the world today. So , um , you're pulling people away from their jobs and , uh , for the purpose of what we saw. Right.
S1: Right. Yeah.
S6: Yeah.
S1: Well , because I was going to ask about that. I mean , we're in a time where tensions are high around the globe.
S5: I think that it really is revealing of the kind of the priorities of the administration. Um , because Pete Hegseth , the secretary of defense , unlike prior deaths , you know , he is a political creature , right ? Like he is a Trump guy. You heard him on Fox News for years. Talk about the military and complain about aspects of the modern military. And what he's done at the Pentagon is really prioritize all of the grievances that Trump does , and he's applying them to the to the Pentagon. And so what you saw was the spectacle. And that's kind of what we've seen from the administration , um , is spectacle after spectacle. Hmm.
S6: Hmm.
S1:
S5: It was a little surreal watching Trump march out on stage with , you know , hail to the chief playing. And there was just crickets in the audience. And Trump himself even said , oh , I've never walked on the stage with so little applause. And then he waited. And then like , nobody I mean , there was like really muted laughter. So , um , but that just speaks to the kind of the , the professionalism that these military leaders kind of , you know , hold themselves to. They're not political creatures , most of them. Right. And they're a little uncomfortable being put in these types of situations , because there is this long tradition in the military of being apolitical.
S1: We're not defenders.
S5: You know , 5 or 6 years ago. Um , it's a real kind of a , I don't know , GI Joe understanding of the way the military functions. Right. Where you just kind of see it as a bunch of jets and planes and boats and and explosions and anything that is in a jet plane bloat or explosion you think is wasteful and maybe not necessary. And so , yeah , it's the same rhetoric , rhetoric he used to use on TV. Um , and really just no room for any , any nuance.
S1: You know , some of these new directives Seth announced include what he calls gender neutral or male level standards for physical fitness. Parse through some of that for us.
S5: Women didn't there weren't a different set of standards for women as for men. You know , folks had to do push ups and sit ups. And , I mean , that was back in my time. I think they have slightly different things today. But , you know , this is that political culture war being applied to the Pentagon. We've seen it since day one of the administration with their executive orders , um , targeting trans people. Um , women have been I mean , I think it's fair to say have been targeted. You know , the the former , uh , CNO the the the leader of the Navy was a woman. She was among the military leaders fired early in the Trump administration , as well as other , you know , people of color and women in leadership roles were , you know , drummed out of those roles and replaced. So , um , this kind of this all goes back to that , that blustery kind of language where you see the military as a bunch of burly dudes and anything that doesn't fit that preconception is is something to be written off.
S1: Um , uh , Seth also sort of lifted the guardrails on how the military handles allegations of abuse. He called it the no more walking on eggshells policy.
S5: They're set by Congress. So the , uh , the Uniform Code of Military Justice is the law. The military services are adhered to. That is Congress. Um , the , uh , the Jag man , which is the Judge Advocate General manual. This is the basically the law book for military attorneys. You know , any changes to the JAG ? Man , that is something that comes from the legislator. So all of these things like , uh , complaints about , uh , you know , misconduct and stuff. There is a prescribed process for how you you deal with that. What he's done and I took a look at the memo , is he is trying to tighten timelines and raise the bar for the level of evidence required to launch or prolong an investigation. So instead of an administrative investigation , uh , going , taking six months , he wants it maybe three months. Right. So just kind of tightening the timelines there so that we're not , like , wasting time. I'm using air quotes there. And , um , you know , raising the evidentiary threshold. And in the memo he talks a lot about false reports. False reports about not specific , but the idea being that false reports are creating a burden to leadership where they're focusing on all these investigations taking forever , and they need to get rid of all that and so on.
S1: Is that true ? No.
S5: Not exactly. Um , there's been a few changes in the last few years. I'd say since 2017 or so , where each year Congress has kind of chipped away at some of these processes in the military , basically around sexual assault , where the most recent changes were they took the chain of command , the commanders , out of the kind of the reporting pipeline of those investigations. They took them out of the hands of military commanders. The judge Advocate General , of course , set up a special kind of unit for sexual assault prosecution. So , um , but again , this is something prescribed by Congress. Uh , this is not a , you know , Secretary of Defense program. He is , you know , he is supposed to follow the law , which is kind of what we got into with , um , the conversation I had with the lawyer yesterday where , um , just because the law says they can't do this and that , um , I think they've shown that they'll do what they want and , you know , let the courts deal with it later.
S1: Um , uh , Trump also got on stage and proposed that American cities be used as training grounds for the armed forces. Here are some of what he said.
S7: Only in recent decades did politicians somehow come to believe that our job is to police the far reaches of Kenya and Somalia , while America is under invasion from within. We're under invasion from within , no different than a foreign enemy , but more difficult in many ways because they don't wear uniforms. At least when they're wearing a uniform , you can take them out. These people don't have uniforms , but we are under invasion from within and we're stopping it very quickly. After spending trillions of dollars defending the borders of foreign countries , with your help , we're defending the borders of our country from now on.
S1: What's the question there ? And lots to unpack. You spoke with a former military judge yesterday.
S5: This is a law that says that you cannot use the military to enforce the law inside the United States. Um , you know , Don King is , uh , he was the former , um , staff judge advocate for the Navy Region Southwest commander here in San Diego. He was in that job during the Eddie Gallagher court martial. Um , he then went on to become a judge and then , uh , retired and is now in private practice in San Diego. He says that all of this puts troops in a really difficult position.
S8: You're going to have , you know , E1 , E2 sergeants , staff sergeants on the ground. If they're asked to take up arms against Americans who are probably going to wonder , is this really lawful ? Am I really going to take part in this ? And it could create an enormous amount of chaos. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. You know , before that clip , you mentioned Eddie Gallagher , and when I when I hear the policy shift here , um , it almost seems like that is the type of of troop member they would want.
S5: Oh , absolutely. I mean , I , I did a story years ago , um , where I basically analyzed all of the Gallagher family's appearances on Fox and Friends , um , and how they used Fox News to essentially get Eddie , you know , help get him off. Right. Yeah. Because Trump became involved in that case. Pete Hegseth was a big proponent of Eddie's , um , not just Eddie Gallagher , other , um , accused and charged war criminal alleged war criminals as well , um , who were later pardoned by Trump on his way out of office. But , uh , yeah , this is totally in line with with Seth's philosophy. Um , this is among the policy changes that he talked about in that speech.
S1:
S5: That's where you really would start to see see the pain. So , um , definitely keeping an eye on on that. Um , and the more medium to long term , um , so far these deployments are National Guard , which is a little bit different than just deploying the military into cities. Right ? There's a different legal thing happening there where you can deploy to the garden situations. Um , which has been done several times in several states.
S1: Um , so those members are not being paid right now either.
S5: Right , correct. Um , so , um , if if more active duty troops , I'm talking from , you know , the Army , Navy , Air Force , Marines , Space Force outside of the guard are sent into cities. Um , that's when we're going to see the next , I think , big , um , big fight in the courts.
S1: All right. I've been speaking with Andrew Dyer , KPBS military and veteran affairs reporter. Andrew , thank you so very much.
S5: Thank you.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
