From TV auctions to social media bidding: How the live shopping thrill lives on

Episode 18: Auctions Transcript

Julia Dixon Evans: Try to think: What are your most cherished memories? At the end of your life, what will be on that highlight reel? For McKenna Hartman, her dad, Paul, and the rest of her family, that answer’s a little unusual: zany, chaotic TV auctions.

Archival clip: Our annual KPBS Open Sesame auction.

McKenna Hartman: The energy, I wish I could describe. It was electric.

Archival clip: We got a custom-built automobile, we got restaurant dinners, we got all kinds of great things.

Evans: In the 1970s and ‘80s, KPBS hosted an “everything goes” auction.

Archival clip: Once a year, KPBS TV preempts its regular programs for nearly a week to become involved with the community in its most exciting fundraising event: the Open Sesame TV auction.

Archival clip: You will get many, many bargains and more important than that, you are going to keep the programs on KPBS going.

Evans: It sold custom cars next to urologist appointments, next to books and restaurant gift certificates.

Archival clip: A six-foot-long torpedo sandwich to the fantastic gastronomic surprise…

Archival clip: Two nights on a waterbed at the Seven Eleven motel.

Archival clip: Someone's going to get a steal on that toilet seat.

Evans: Even dates with KPBS anchors.

Hartman: The energy in this place. There was just a million things, a million cameras ready to go to the next board and back to that board.

Archival clip: Ladies and gentlemen, if you haven't seen Table 3 yet, you really should take a look at it.

Evans: The auctions featured celebrities — actors from “I Love Lucy” and “M*A*S*H” — “Sesame Street” characters like Big Bird, musical performances…

Archival clip: Stand by for the band, take.

Evans: …even a grade-school Tucker Carlson — more on that later. And it built a tight-knit community. Running a pre-internet TV auction was a logistical feat involving hundreds of volunteers.

Hartman: It was massive and everybody was involved. Spouses of people that worked at the station were keeping us fed, bringing in food. And a million people joining together. It was really, really beautiful.

Archival clip: I'd never worked with a greater bunch of people in my whole life.

Evans: For McKenna's dad, now in his 80s, the auctions were more than just work or a shopping program that he hosted. They've become something to hold onto, even as the rest of his mind slips away.

Hartman: I originally reached out about trying to find footage from the old PBS auctions because my dad used to be one of the hosts for those. He is struggling with Parkinson's and dementia and I know that those were such fond memories for him, too, and that he would enjoy watching those back. I think dad was so enamored, enchanted by the idea that this is not regular TV — somebody just spouting information at you — this is a give-and-take and what a beautiful thing that is to support the station that is giving you so much and gave my family so, so much.

Evans: Those with dementia sometimes experience what researchers call “time-shifting.” Maybe you've seen it yourself with a loved one. They're suddenly teleported back in time.

Hartman: Dad is becoming less and less in tune with reality. At our last family Christmas at one point he was just so confused and it was so difficult to watch, until he stood up and he looked at all of us and he said, please, if you've enjoyed the programming, pick up your phone and dial the number on your screen. And we laugh because even in his brain now, he defaults to a pledge break. And we all laugh. We love it.

Evans: So what was it about those fundraising TV programs that left the people involved so transformed and created such enduring, vivid memories? That's what we set out to explore in this episode, and in doing that, we found something surprising. Today, decades after the KPBS auctions were canceled, live auctions are making a comeback in a new way. Maybe it's the adrenaline or the camaraderie, but whatever it was that resonated so deeply with McKenna and her family, may be why auctions are refusing to become obsolete.

Hartman: He still tears up talking about… I think the community of those auctions and those pledge breaks, of really, truly feeling like you were coming into someone's home. It was magic. It was absolute magic.

Evans: From KPBS Public Media, this is The Finest. A podcast about the people, art and movements redefining culture in San Diego. I'm Julia Dixon Evans.

[Theme Music]

Evans: This year is KPBS' 65th birthday and as everybody looks back, these auctions kept coming up. Not just because they were an effective fundraising tool, not just because you could buy a new jacket or kitchen utensils from your couch, but because they brought people together. The auctions were exhilarating and communal in a way that shopping on Amazon today certainly isn't. We saw that ourselves. When we dug into the KPBS archives.

Archival clip: I tell you, I don’t know when KPBS has had such a tremendous thing happen.

Evans: And we talked to two of the people at KPBS who were most instrumental in putting them on.

Tom Karlo: I'm Tom Karlo. I started in 1973 as a student assistant and ended up working for KPBS for 47 years, retiring as the general manager.

Ken Kramer: My name is Ken Kramer. I came to KPBS as a student in 1968 and spent a fair amount of time getting the first episodes of a show called “Ken Kramer’s About San Diego” going, but a lot of time hosting fundraisers and the auction, which was the big celebration of community involvement in fundraising.

Archival clip: So for the first night at the KPBS auction, I'm Ken Kramer. Thanks for being with us. We will see you tomorrow afternoon at 4:30.

Karlo: The television auction started in 1974 and we did our last one in 1987. And in those early days, we would go on for seven nights in primetime.

Kramer: It was Wild West. It was not structured. It was all ad-libbed.

Karlo: The excitement was it was live TV and there was nothing like it. I mean, the adrenaline flowed every night. It was just this activity that never stopped.

Archival clip: OK, welcome back to Board B. All right, it's on to Board H.

Archival clip: Now we are down to two cameras for at least tonight at the auction.

Archival clip: What's a barazza? A barazza for two. Does anybody know what barazza is? I wasn't here when they were auctioning…

Karlo: We would begin the show sometimes with an act. Sometimes the acts were part of an auction item. You want a juggler to come to your kid’s birthday party, and magicians and singers and dancing groups.

Evans: Then, of course, it was time to sell stuff — all items that people had donated to KPBS, so there was a wild assortment.

Archival clip: And thousands of businesses from all areas of San Diego County donate the merchandise. Everything from vintage wine to automobiles, from sewing machines to wedding dresses.

Hartman: Just the most eclectic, you know, here's some kitchen utensils and oh, here's a trip to France.

Kramer: It might be anything. It might be service on your car, followed by psychiatric sessions, followed by one-of-a-kind work of art, and here it is…

Archival clip: Want you to take a look at this old time radio.

Archival clip: Cardiac stress test.

Archival clip: Perfect for your club or organization…

Hartman: Statues of horses and smaller items, you know, a nice jacket.

Archival clip: Carol Burnett donated this picture and a chromatic harmonica.

Karlo: The first item on the board was a certificate for a vasectomy.

Kramer: Yes.

Karlo: And it happened to be that on that same board was a Statue of David.

Kramer: And understand also that we aired the names of the winner. So the vasectomy goes to Mr. John Jones of Encinitas, and it's a gift from his wife.

Archival clip: Dan Muns was the high bidder for the kosher ham. And Dan, do let us know how that turns out.

Karlo: One of the items that was donated was a part in a porno film.

Kramer: I never heard this.

Karlo: You never heard this one?

Kramer: No.

Karlo: Well, we killed it.

Kramer: Yeah. Wisely so, I may say. What part was it?

Karlo: I have no idea. It was a discussion and one of the managers really thought it would be a great item, and we — I think very wisely — decided not to do it.

Kramer: Various members of the crew would do things in the final hours when we were trying to get over what we thought was the goal for the night.

Evans: As the clock ran out, a dinner date with Ken himself was put on the board.

Kramer: I was approached and they said, look, you know, we're pretty close to the goal. Would you consider putting yourself up for a night with whoever might bid for you? And my immediate fear was, well, no one's gonna do that. You know, people in this town have standards. So I went to my friend Maddie Krieger, who was one of the phone answerers up there, and I said, look, you know, just put down $40 and that will keep me from being mortally embarrassed. And so, alright, we're running out time. It's almost midnight. Look, we got a date with Ken Kramer here, and I look up at Maddie Krieger and she winks at me and $40 comes run down it’s put on the screen. And then it went to 50. And I looked at her and she's going, I dunno. OK, so we're just gonna ride this. And it went up and it went up and it went, and remember this was a long time ago when a dollar was a dollar, but I think it came in at something like $120. And I was very gratified.

Evans: Did you go on the date? Yes?

Kramer: I did. It was a lovely lady in Escondido. She was a widow lady and her son had bought her that because she hadn't gone out since her husband tragically died of a heart attack a couple years earlier. And we have a fabulous time. As it turned out, it was really great. So, you know, it was kind of a win-win. So we did things like that — whatever it took to reach our goal.

Evans: On TV the auctions look loose and spontaneous, but behind the scenes it was a massive, well-coordinated machine.

Karlo: And it took literally 500 volunteers each year to be involved because nothing was automated.

Archival clip: Volunteers and supportive San Diego business people are the keys to the success of the entire auction. Preparation actually begins many months before the auction. The all-important volunteer go-getters solicit and gather the thousands of items donated by generous and supportive business people in the many communities of San Diego County.

Evans: I ask Ken and Tom to walk me through how it works, how people at home actually bid on and won things.

Karlo: There was a number that was always superimposed on the screen. So you called in that number…

Kramer: 2-8-3-1-2-1-2.

Karlo: Yeah. Yes. And no area code in those days.

Archival clip: Telephone calls from the bidders at home pour in to the volunteer bid takers.

Karlo: And someone says, hi, I want to bid on this item. It is a floral arrangement by this florist and everything. And the bid is currently $20. And he would say, I'll bid $30. And we'd write a piece of paper with their name and their phone number and the $30 and then give it to a runner. And then it was a kid that ran it to the back of the board.

Evans: One of those kids was a very young McKenna Hartman.

Hartman: You cannot know the excitement when one of those volunteers answering the phones would raise their hand and wave around a slip of paper. And we'd race out there and grab that bid and you'd see what board it was for and you'd run it back. I was one hell of a bid runner. I tell you what.

Kramer: At home you could be watching and you'd see the number 55 go up. The other person bidding against you in Encinitas or El Cajon would make it 65.

Archival clip: The excitement intensifies as it becomes time to stop the bidding on the items.

Karlo: Then once we closed it, the volunteers had shopping carts that brought the items and take it into the back area, which was the warehouse, and then they'd have to work for three or four days after the auction to get people to pick 'em all up.

Archival clip: Now a reminder that you may come and pick up your merchandise. It's in the loading dock of the Aztec Center here on San Diego State University's campus.

Karlo: So that's why there was like 500 volunteers.

Kramer: It was not Amazon. It was a much more complicated process.

Archival clip: And that in a very small nutshell is how the auction worked.

Evans: And of the thousands of people who worked on the auctions over the years, there were plenty of notable ones — both in front of the camera and behind it.

Karlo: We had mayors and politicians and all the top anchors in town. We had members of the Padres and the Chargers who came out. Jerry Coleman, who was the longtime voice of the Padres, he always came to the auction after a game. So he would finish out from 9:30 on and he came almost every night.

Kramer: We had Dick Van Dyke.

Karlo: Dick Van Dyke came down. That's right. Yeah.

Kramer: We had David Ogden Stiers, who was Charles Winchester in the “M*A*S*H” series. So we had fairly high-octane stars from television and radio in those days.

Evans: And there was another young bid runner like McKenna, who'd go on to become a household name.

Karlo: It was basically kids who did it: 10, 11, 12 year olds, teenagers, and they ran 'em over there. And we would have people in the community be what we called our volunteer chairs of the auction. And one year, it was the anchor of Channel 8’s news, Dick Carlson. Well, Dick's 12-year-old son was a bid runner. And I ran into him years later and he said that the auction was one of the things that inspired him to get into broadcasting. And his son happened to be Tucker Carlson. So it was an interesting thing that Tucker started off in public broadcasting, and I don't think I have to say anything more about that.

Kramer: No.

Evans: For young Tucker Carlson, McKenna and all the other volunteers — famous or not — the auction was hard work, but it was a lot of fun.

Hartman: It was such n early freedom for me, right? As a, I don't know, eight, nine, 10-year-old to be able to be at my dad's work late into the night and to be able to go into the back and they had snacks for days.

Archival clip: Some businesses contribute the all important food and drinks to keep the volunteers going.

Hartman: Buffet tables lined up with all the best junk food, and I will never forget there was a fountain dispenser for Coke and I had never been so happy in my life. Left to my own devices, work for a while, run bids, do all of that and then run to the back and drink a whole bunch of Pepsi, and it was the best thing ever.

Karlo: What I would say was one of the funnest things we ever did in my history of KPBS.

Kramer: Yeah, and I think it made so much of an impression and created so much community in the community from people who were a part of that KPBS auction, and they just, to this day, speak to me of how much fun it was.

Archival clip: Volunteers have lots of fun and know that their efforts have benefited something they really care about.

Archival clip: I've never worked with a greater bunch of people in my whole life.

Karlo: And everyone watched it.

Kramer: They really did. They did. It was an event.

Karlo: It was quite an event.

Evans: It was still a shopping program, just one that brought people together. Everyone felt part of it: the hosts, the staff, the bid runners and the other volunteers — even the people bidding from home. And McKenna, who grew up to be a community political organizer, said the public media auctions she participated in as a kid were formative.

Hartman: I absolutely believe that that has been a part of who I am is this desire to include everyone to make it a community group, a family affair. Dad used to say, they drew a circle that pushed us out. Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout, but love and I had the wit to win. We drew a circle that pulled them in. And I love that. I think that's what the auction was, it was pulling this community together through the TV and through the phones.

Evans: And that's how an auction can become a core memory. But all good things come to an end. And the KPBS auctions ran until 1987.

Karlo: It was a money maker for us in the beginning, but as the ‘80s moved on we realized from a cost effective standpoint that we were actually losing money, and the amount of manpower in internal cost allocation far exceeded the money we were bringing in.

Archival clip: We're calculating as best we can, but the total seems to be very, very close indeed to $300,000. Great news.

Karlo: But at the same time, even though we were making $300,000, if we put our resources into new ways of attracting money in a more cost effective way, we would ultimately do better. To me, it was an easy decision. But it was a very painful decision because we disappointed a lot of people.

Archival clip: Ladies and gentlemen, I hereby declare the KPBS auction concluded we are done.

Evans: So the bottom line made the painful decision to end the auctions pretty clear, but there were cultural reasons too.

Karlo: Well, right now I don't think hardly anybody does a live TV auction anymore. I mean, not only the home shopping channels and eBay. I would say, Amazon has just really dominated that. You need something, just go and click on your phone, you get it, and it'll be delivered tomorrow.

Evans: From a practical standpoint, the KPBS auction had nothing on Amazon. In many ways, our world is more polished, more focused, more efficient. And Ken and Tom saw this kind of shift extending to all areas of media. Today, there are infinitely more choices for people looking for some evening entertainment.

Kramer: It doesn't have the same charm, doesn't have the same poetry, maybe it doesn't have the same fun. But there was a time to every season and to every purpose, and we served at a time when it was pretty wild out there and we had a lot of fun doing it. It had its challenges, but it also was really rewarding.

Evans: But as we promised, our story doesn't end in 1987. Even if it would never make financial sense to reboot the KPBS auctions, something similar has popped up again, proving there's still a huge appetite for the adrenaline, magic and community that auctions bring.

Angela McDuffie: All right, friends. Well, what else should we look at? I've got, again, I'll just do another quick little scan again. Gosh, I have so much. We've got earrings, we've got cameos, my Victorian box, my ‘50s gloves.

Evans: This is Angela McDuffie in action.

McDuffie: Everything is for sale, so you let me know if anything catches your fancy.

Evans: She lives in San Diego and runs Baron's Armoire, a popular vintage jewelry store on the online auction platform WhatNot. WhatNot launched in 2019. It’s currently ranked as one of the top 20 free iPhone apps, and last year total sales on the platform surpassed $3 billion. WhatNot hosts hold shows for their followers, displaying and auctioning whatever items they wish to sell live, interacting with the chat as they go — like a mixture of Twitch and the ‘90s-era home shopping channels.

McDuffie: Auctioning is making a huge comeback in this day and age. And so it's not just WhatNot. Like TikTok, TikTok is now another huge platform for auctioning or just live sales.

Evans: Angela started Baron's Armoire less than six months ago, but like the KPBS auctions of the past, hers have already made new friendships and built a community.

McDuffie: We get to know each other more than just, you know, seller and buyer. We're exchanging phone numbers. We talk on a regular basis. We share our common hobby in antiquity and in fine jewels. And it's been a really amazing and rewarding community that I've built.

Evans: Angela has a full-time corporate career in the tech world, but in her spare time she is an avid collector of antique jewelry.

McDuffie: This whole jewelry thing really started out as a passion project where I work eight to five during the day and then when I turn off my work computer, I hop on WhatNot and I do a one- to two- hour auction on a regular basis. And even now it's still my quote unquote passion project versus my full-time thing. But I would love it if this does manifest into a full-time gig.

Evans: She said at first she tried eBay and Poshmark, but on those platforms it could take weeks to sell a single item. But when she started doing live shows on WhatNot, her jewelry and trinkets started flying off the shelves.

McDuffie: Yes, and Kelly is taking this home. Thank you so much for the bid, my dear friend. You're gonna get some beautiful rings today.

Evans: In just four months, she's made nearly 900 sales on the platform.

McDuffie: So I started this whole journey of what they call sourcing. So for me, I found my niche in antique and vintage jewelry and also antique and vintage trinkets. I started to look into different avenues like estate sales, where folks are selling a lot of these cool things by the bulk.

Evans: So Angela goes on treasure hunts, scouring both online and in person for her curated store — one with all the charm and personality of Angela herself.

McDuffie: Hello, Amanda! Hey, friends. Welcome in. Welcome in. So thank you for being here. Well, my dear friend, what should we start? I mean, I also have this Art Nouveau baby doll mirror. I've got this Victorian jewelry box. I mean, we're gonna have fun today.

I think successful auctioneers, you have to be entertaining. You have to be relatable. And so you'll sprinkle in a little bit of your life story, how's your day? Or, for me, oftentimes is telling the history, like this historical significance of the piece, right? And I find my folks really love it. I have people where they say, Angela, I love coming to your shows just to learn about Cloisonné history or history of Southeast Asian jewelries or jade, etcetera.

Evans: Angela studied a little art history in college, but most of her expertise comes from her mother, who was a high-end fashion designer in Shanghai. There's usually no more than 20 people in her auction room at any given time, so it's an intimate setting, but it's enough for her to make lots of sales. Her fans are engaged and Angela's knowledge and passion for the things she sells is part of the experience.

McDuffie: I think one of the most memorable thing I sold was, it's an Art Deco era — so Art Deco era is about like a 1920s-ish. It's a really cool conch shell cameo, but it's a flip ring. So I always call it the fidget spinners of the Deco era and it flips from like a really beautiful carved shell face of a woman and then you flip it over and it's rubies with diamonds and you can just toggle back and forth between the two facets.

Evans: Angela does two auctions a week right now. Between those and hunting for pieces for her collection, she said she spends about 20 hours a week running Baron's Armoire. And her passion project has, at times, been pretty lucrative.

McDuffie: I have good days where I can make in a couple of hours double of what I make in my full-time corporate job. But then there are days where I make $20 after like three hours of streaming and being on the auction.

Evans: Whatever profit she's making, she's still having a lot of fun. So are the buyers. She said a lot of her customers are young — in their 20s and 30s. They love the rush of finding a valuable piece for a great price and they love the environmental benefits of buying secondhand. But also, like the KPBS auctions before them, they're creating a community. It seems a lot like the experience of going to the farmer's market where you talk to the vendor, learn their story, get to know them, maybe even become friends. Supporting someone you know and like in that way feels entirely different from buying something on Amazon.

McDuffie: You build a sense of trust and camaraderie with whoever that you're watching. So I have a handful of people that I go back to time after time because one, I trust their quality of things. I suppose knowing that I'm getting really unique things at a really good price, and supporting someone that I just really like as a human being makes the entire shopping experience really meaningful.

Evans: With every technological innovation in our world today, our every task continues to get more convenient. At times, that comes at the expense of the human experiences that make life colorful. But these kinds of auctions are a way to get some of that back. Hunting for treasure and having a little friendly competition to win it, supporting a cause you believe in and doing it with other people you like and have fun with. That's the stuff lifelong memories are made of, the kind Angela's hoping to make more of and the kind McKenna and her dad are holding onto.

Hartman: They were just joyful times and so much hope, building up this organization and it was really, really special. I just saw my dad last night and I was telling him about this, that we were gonna talk, and I think he absorbed it and the grin on his face. KPBS was really kind of his home.

Evans: And now back to 1980s Ken Kramer for the last word.

Archival clip: I guess one of the privileges of being master of ceremonies is that you get to have the final word, and so I will convey it to you. Goodnight. Thank you, everybody who helped to make this auction such a success. All of you who donated. All of you who bid. Goodnight, everybody. It's onto Board H.

[Music]

Archival clip: What we're gonna do over the next few minutes is engage in some thank yous.

Evans: A special thank you to McKenna Hartman, Angela McDuffie, Ken Kramer and Tom Karlo for their help with this episode. And everyone at KPBS who hooked us up with archival footage. Be on the lookout for a video companion to this episode, thanks to the video production team at KPBS.

Next week on The Finest, we take a closer look at — and a taste of — a Michelin-honored, one-of-a-kind restaurant that is distinctly San Diegan: Mabel's Gone Fishing. Owner Chelsea Coleman reveals how a team of chefs and artists have transformed the space into a community hub and living gallery.

Chelsea Coleman: It's amazing to be able to support local artists because that's what we really rely on as chefs and restaurant people is our neighborhood. We're neighborhood restaurants, you know.

Evans: I'm your host, Julia Dixon Evans. Our producer, lead writer and composer is Anthony Wallace. Our engineer is Ben Redlawsk and our editor is Chrissy Nguyen.