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Olympic Rules May Disallow San Diego-Tijuana Bid

Mayor Bob Filner said today his hopes to land a cross-border Olympics for San Diego and Tijuana were "undaunted'' by word from the International Olympic Committee that rules may preclude a joint bid by the U.S. and Mexico.

The Mexican flag in Tijuana can be seen prominently from the U.S. side of the border. Tijuana is the sixth-largest metropolitan area in Mexico with a population of 1.5 million. By comparison, San Diego County has about 3 million people.
Enlarge this image

Above: The Mexican flag in Tijuana can be seen prominently from the U.S. side of the border. Tijuana is the sixth-largest metropolitan area in Mexico with a population of 1.5 million. By comparison, San Diego County has about 3 million people.

The mayor said he was in the preliminary stages of looking into a two-city effort to attract the 2024 summer games and doesn't have all the answers yet.

"The true spirit of the Olympics embodies my conviction that we should vigorously pursue the dream of having two countries host the Olympics in the greatest bi-national region of the world,'' Filner said. "Rules and by-laws can be changed.''

The mayor has pushed the concept of San Diego being part of a wider cross-border region with Tijuana since taking office. He recently opened a city of San Diego office in Tijuana.

It was learned Friday night that a San Diego-Tijuana bid would be considered by the U.S. Olympic Committee.

Filner said he hoped the effort would be chaired by ex-presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who led the 2002 Winter Olympic Committee in Salt Lake City. However, a spokesman for Romney, who has a home in La Jolla, said he didn't want to do more than provide advice to organizers.

Comments

Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | April 30, 2013 at 7:42 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Mayor Filner: A true visionary who is looking for innovative ways to improve relations with our Southern border and put San Diego on the I tear national map.

Willard Romney: A self-centered out of touch corporate hack who has no vision beyond making himself rich and powerful.

I commend Filner for reaching out the olive branch.

I hope the San Diego-Tijuana metropolitan area becomes world famous for hosting the first bi-national Olympic Games.

Let vision-less cranks like Romney watch from the sidelines (or, more precisely, from their La Jolla mansions).

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | April 30, 2013 at 7:59 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Sorry but this is an idiotic idea.

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Avatar for user 'DIZZY'

DIZZY | May 1, 2013 at 8:44 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

This is a foolish idea. Do we really want to emulate a corrupt,poor, drug through way to the United States? Tijuana is a disgrace to humanity. San Diego has too many events already to the point that on every weekend roads,and freeways are closed somewhere in the county .This curtails families to enjoy their own city,county,on a regular basis on weekends. Stop the Insanity , we are overcrowded and dont need this here. NIMBY

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 1, 2013 at 10:08 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Dizzy,

I know exactly what you mean. I hate it when my path to the nearest Redbox kiosk or Midnight Adult Bookstore is blocked. Those clowns at City Hall just don't know what us real 'Mericans want and need.

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Avatar for user 'AndyC'

AndyC | May 1, 2013 at 11:20 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Not a totally unprecedented concept. Remember that the 2002 Wold Cup was split between South Korea and Japan, with sites throughout each country. From what I understand, the World Cup of soccer is a pretty big event, and they made it work pretty well . The San Diego/Tijuana region is essentially one gigantic metropolitan area, so logistically this is an entirely doable concept.

It'll be interesting to see if the IOC can be convinced to go for it.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 1, 2013 at 11:36 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Thumbs up for Duckesters comments.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 1, 2013 at 11:38 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

@Delarick, lol, good comeback.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 1, 2013 at 11:43 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DIZ, I agree, it is very unfortuante that Tijuana or Mexico for that matter, has the world's # 1 illicit drug market as a next door neighbor. What is the USA best at? Arms manufacturing and entertainment.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 1, 2013 at 12:45 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Filner's antics are going to destroy any hope of bringing the Olympics to San Diego.

San Diego and Tijuana are two separate and distinct cities with different languages, culture, economics, and lifestyle. Filner might as well hatch a plan to jointly host the Olympics with Ulan Bator, Mongolia. Same difference.

Filner, your dream of annexing San Diego to Mexico is never going to happen. Either go back to Pittsburgh or buy a retirement home in Rosarito and let us live in peace.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 1, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

"You don't dig world trade buddy after all the economics they've tried to shove into you."
-- Elvis as "Charlie Rodgers" ROUSTABOUT (1964)

Just in case you didn't notice, CA OFf, the world is getting smaller and more interdependent. Look around. That's the future. Isolationism is an anachronism. It's not an opinion, it's a hard observation.

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 1, 2013 at 1:46 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CD,

Not looking for conflict, but how can you say the words "San Diego" and posit a notion that it has a separate and distinct culture from Mexico without a sense of irony? Mongolia is not your neighbor; Mongolian is not used for naming streets or towns in California; and, there aren't 14.5 million Californians of Mongolian ethnicity walking among us.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 1, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Mission,

Yes, the world is getting smaller. More reason to preserve and protect unique cultures around the world, including our own. It's not isolationism, but the opposite. Hosting the Olympics is a great opportunity to display our city, culture, and economy to the world.

DLR,

Yes, there is influence from Mexico in San Diego, but we are not Mexican. There is also influence from Spain, which likewise influenced Mexico. So how about a joint Olympics with Alcala de Henares, our Spanish sister city? Makes more sense as Spain founded and ruled San Diego for 279 years. Mexico for just 25.

I also find it interesting that you think there are 14.5 million Mexicans "walking among us."

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 1, 2013 at 3:21 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CaliforniaDefender don't forget that to the left, preserving or protecting anything besides a minority interest is hateful bigotry and discrimination.

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 2, 2013 at 11:39 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CD,

Alcala de Henares is not your neighbor. Please feel free to live in the here and now. The latest census results indicate there are ~14 million California residents of Mexican descent.

JM - Not protecting or considering minority interests is tyranny. If you think San Diego has a chance of hosting the Olympics without the "gimmick" of including Tijuana, you are not aware of San Diego's place in the world. It's not considered a progressive city by any stretch precisely because of close-minded thinking by xenophobes.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 2, 2013 at 2:12 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DLR,

So because they border us, that qualifies them for a joint Olympic games? Did London host them with Calais? No. Pyeongchang is hosting them in 2018. Will they do so with Pyongyang? Nope.

California would not be hosting the games. San Diego would be, so your figure of "14 million California residents of Mexican descent" is irrelevant. I also find it interesting that you classify them just as "residents" indicating a large portion are illegal aliens.

I also find your comment that San Diego is not a "progressive" city to be baseless and quite uninformed, even rude. Makes me wonder why you live in such a "close-minded" city. Perhaps San Francisco is more your style.

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 2, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA Defender, you wrote: “Filner’s antics are going to destroy any hope of bringing the Olympics to San Diego”.

On the contrary, the idea of the first bi-national Olympics gives us a huge edge, something that would set-us apart from other contenders if we did make the short list.

I guess my question to you is why does this seem like such a terrible idea? You are talking about giving us over to Mexico and other things that are simply not related to a bi-national Olympics. This doesn’t have to do with illegal immigrants, drug wars, pollution moving in from one city to another, or any of the other myriad of problems on can list – it simply has to do with one large multi-national metropolitan area coming together and coordinating to bring the world’s premier sporting event to us so we can show off the wonderful place we call home to the entire world.

As others have pointed out, we are a contiguous metropolitan area that just happens to be divided by an international border. If Minneapolis and St. Paul decided to collaborate on hosting the Olympics, having some events in one city and some in the other, would you have a problem with that? So what if one metro area is divided by a river and the other by an international border? It can still be done. It would be good if it is done.

Both San Diego and Tijuana have populations in the millions. To suggest that if one of our cities were to get to host such a prominent world-watched event and the other city would not get to partake would be absurd. What if TJ itself were awarded the games? There would be no chance of SD hosting for centuries because that would check-off our region as being the host and we in San Diego would simply have no part in the events in our city just because of xenophobia? Same thing for TJ if SD were awarded the games.

The whole point of the Olympics is that it’s an INTERNATIONAL EVENT.

The Olympics are supposed to be a time when PROBLEMS between DIFFERENT COUNTRIES can be SET-ASIDE and citizens of all the world can come together and simply enjoy the international language of sport.

Yes I know there have been historical incidents where politics have crept-in such as when the games were in Germany and Hitler attended, the terrible tragedy at Munich, or the various countries who have boycotted over the years, but generally speaking, the games are a time when people come together despite differences, not wallow in those differences.

Everyone knows there are problems that exist between the U.S. and Mexico, and that’s what makes this such an AWESOME idea.

The idea to show the world that we CAN put problems aside and pull off a major international event with a neighbor despite pas friction.

The ability to show the world that even though we might not always agree with our neighbor, we respect our neighbors as people and can break bread with them in the neutral arena of sport.

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 2, 2013 at 3:17 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

(continued)

I’m not saying it would be easy to pull-off but it is doable and, the doing of it would elevate our region to an international recognition we have never known.

This idea embodies the spirit of what the Olympics are all about, and I am so happy Mayor Filner has revived it (yes, he did not invent this, I have heard this proposed in the past, but my hats-off to having a public official who actually has the vision and quite frankly the cajones to try and get it done).

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 3, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA Defender,

Just because I wish San Diego were more progressive doesn't mean I don't enjoy living and working here. As PDSD mentioned, your reasons for dismissing a binational Olympiad out-of-hand have nothing to do with infrastructure or logistics. By the way, those are the reasons that I think the proposal is pie-in-the-sky and doesn't stand a chance of becoming reality; not because I'm afraid of Mexican cultural infringement.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 3, 2013 at 9:12 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA says: "More reason to preserve and protect unique cultures around the world, including our own. "

Yet you oppose the SDLFF and the African American Film Festival in your past comments???

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 3, 2013 at 10:05 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CD Off, you're a funny one to poke a jab at San Fran in your reply to DRL, considering the fact that you take the pro-gay marriage, which I do not, but NEITHER do I make gay/left references to San Francisco for laughs.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 3, 2013 at 1:33 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Duck,

The reasons you listed " illegal immigrants, drug wars, pollution" are actually a big part of why a joint Olympics would not work. San Diego and Tijuana are two different worlds.

The security risk (and thus security expense) in Tijuana would be enormous. The games could easily be marred by a violent attack as the region is virtually lawless with corruption deeply rooted in the Mexican government, police, and military. Even if not a violent attack, it is likely visitors would be subject to harassment and shakedowns by authority figures in addition to regular criminals preying upon them.

Add in widespread pollution, unsafe drinking water, lack of infrastructure, poor public transportation, no suitable venues, and Mexico needing to somehow cover up the rampant poverty an create a false facade (just like China did), the plan is DOA.

The games would be THE chance for San Diego to prove that it is a modern, hi-tech, green, and cultured city that can finally move out of LA's shadow and onto the world stage. There is no benefit or logical reason to including Tijuana except to support a particular political agenda and politics are NOT what the Olympic games are about.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 3, 2013 at 1:42 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DLR,

There is no "fear" of Mexican cultural infringement. There has always been Mexican cultural influence as I already mentioned. However, the games should be about San Diego and our unique city and culture which is distinct and separate from Tijuana.

Missionlost,

Wow, you just never get it. My opposition to the African American Film Festival was in title, not content. They should have called it the "African Film Festival" just like we have the Asian Film Festival, Italian Film Festival, etc, instead of making it a racial event.

And why did you make this about gays? You're the funny one. I was taking a jab at San Francisco's illegal "sanctuary city" declaration which has nothing to do with gays.

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 4, 2013 at 10:30 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA Defender,

Obviously, all the regulars on this comment board love San Diego. What's not to like? I believe the sooner San Diego develops a broader relationship with Tijuana, the better our chances of moving out from under LA's shadow. There is room for improvement on both sides of the border. A San Diego/Tijuana mini-metropolis has a chance to become the model city for Mexican/American coexistence (with an efficient border); and, both sides can keep their laws and cultural quirks. Someday, I'd like to drive from Oceanside to Ensenada with minimal physical and existential impediments.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 6, 2013 at 8:26 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA OFF writes "And why did you make this about gays? You're the funny one. I was taking a jab at San Francisco's illegal "sanctuary city" declaration which has nothing to do with gays."

Hmm. I DIDN'T make it about gays. I thought you were taking a jab at San Fran for being an OVERALL "liberal" city, DLR, being liberal.

You are, however, making it about immigration.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 6, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Oh, in title only, I see. So, pray, tell, Mr. Rightwingcultural chauvinist, what do we call the SDLFF next year??? You had NO similar qualms about the Gay Film Fest or the Jewish Film Fest.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 6, 2013 at 8:32 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Yeah, give Ethan a buzz next year with your proposed new title.

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 6, 2013 at 11 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

What's this about gays and film festivals? I thought this article was about the olympics trying to be half in San Diego and half in a war zone with the highest murder rate in the western hemisphere. Now that is a great idea!!

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 6, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DLR,

How would developing a broader relationship with a broken city help San Diego? Tijuana has nothing to offer us other than cheap labor which is unethical to use.

We have a responsibility to provide basic human needs and reduce environmental destruction in Tijuana. But the relationship will never progress from giver and taker until there is monumental change in Mexico.

JM,

Sorry, I got distracted by Mission's inane nonsense. Whenever Mission is out of defensible points, he/she goes off-topic. But I think it is quite clear that this joint Olympic plan is the biggest off-topic distraction of all.

San Diego needs to focus on the San Diego Olympics. This is too important to let Filner ruin with his political pandering and empty showboating.

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 6, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Yep, I notice a common strategy of the left is to build strawmen arguments when their arguments fail in the face of logic.

Olympics here would be great! Forget this TJ stuff, it's ridiculous.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 7, 2013 at 7:48 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA OFF, so calling it "African-american" makes it a "racial event," (your wording) as opposed to "African Film Festival"??? Talk about inane. Mmmaybe Logic 101 at City College next semester???

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 7, 2013 at 8:11 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA OFF writes from his High Horse:

"The security risk (and thus security expense) in Tijuana would be enormous. The games could easily be marred by a violent attack as the region is virtually lawless with corruption deeply rooted in the Mexican government, police, and military. Even if not a violent attack, it is likely visitors would be subject to harassment and shakedowns by authority figures in addition to regular criminals preying upon them.

Add in widespread pollution, unsafe drinking water, lack of infrastructure, poor public transportation, no suitable venues, and Mexico needing to somehow cover up the rampant poverty an create a false facade (just like China did), the plan is DOA."

Is CA Off concerned about how much Mexico would spend on security??? LOL Does not CA OFF know that the Rep of South Africa had a very high crime rate (PLEASE do look this up), yet the IOC granted it a host status? Violent attacks? Does CA OFF know that Mexico hosted the 2011 in Guadalajara??? Did CA OFF express similar concerns about the US team at said games? Granted, Tijuana is NOT Guadalajara, but you get my point.

Lawlessness??? LOL Is this Somalia next door? Interesting that Ken Roth, Exec Director of AI said Mexico is far from a "failed state." Did not CA OFF listen to the NPR report about Sudanese girls taking exercise classes to trim down!? Yes, CA, even in the so-called "failed state" Sudan (now North & South), they are not starving to death and have places to work out and have such "Western concerns" as weight loss. CA Off would have you believe they live in huts! LOL

Does not CA O know that pollution is everywhere? That the US Navy is the greatest polluter in the region? Does not CA Off know that you can buy bottled water in Mexico?

About the only thing he is correct about is the lack of infrastructure and the poor public transportation. But then again, we are only talking about hosting only a few of the events, and they would still have years to prepare.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 7, 2013 at 8:36 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

I do see major traffic problems on the south San Diego side if changes are not made and that's going to be more red tape.

Regardless, Vargas needs to press Congress for funds for the southbound I-5 connection to the new El Chaparral opening.

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 7, 2013 at 8:45 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

JeanMarc,

C'mon, "strawmen" arguments?!?! The broad characterizations about Mexico made on this comment board are, themselves, "strawmen" arguments for bigotry. There is nothing occurring in Mexico that doesn't occur in other parts of the world and/or in our country. I am an American, but that doesn't mean that every other nation in the world must confine to my rigid standards just so that I don't feel threatened.

Back to the point, San Diego, for all its beauty, doesn't stand a chance of hosting the Olympics without the gimmick of including Tijuana. If we can't build a stadium for the Chargers, what makes anyone think we can build the stadiums, arenas and fields required for Olympic competition? The closest we'll ever get to hosting the Olympics was when San Diego hosted equestrian events for LA back in 1984.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 7, 2013 at 12:39 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

The Olympics themselves are just a bad idea. Too many different cultures. Too complicated. The world would be a much better place if individual countries were unicultural (kind of like what Hitler envisioned, but more peaceful), but since that's never going to happen, we should discourage any sort of cultural internationalism.

Haven't yet figured out whether or not we should ban any foreign trade though. On one hand, the economy's the most important thing in the world, so anything we can profit off of is good. However, there's just so many dangerous negative consequences to acknowledging foreigners as human beings.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 7, 2013 at 12:43 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

If we allow international metropolises to host an international event, what's next? Allowing the observance of non-Christian holidays? Or worse yet, not allowing the observance of Christian holidays? A very, very dangerous thought indeed. Let's be careful, people.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 7, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Missionfailed,

I'm ignoring your laughably off-topic nonsense about film festivals and Sudanese weight watchers, but I'll debate the rest.

First, yes I am concerned about security which would largely be our responsibility as Tijuana has a very poor track record in this department.

South Africa? The Olympics have never been held in Africa. Perhaps you're confusing South Africa with Brazil. Just curious, did you go to a public school?

Anyway, I think the point you're trying to make is that the Olympics have been held in other high-risk cities. Not as high-risk as Tijuana. Even the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City (which is slightly safer) had the Tlatelolco Massacre where hundreds were killed.

Your response to contaminated water in Tijuana is to "buy bottled water". Yes, that sends a great message to the world about our commitment to the environment.

Traffic and the border crossing would be another prohibitive issue. Thanks for bringing that up.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 7, 2013 at 4:36 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DLR,

Other nations shouldn't have to confirm to the "rigid standards" of America? You mean the standards that protect us from having parasites or bullets in our bodies? So terrible that we would impose such "bigoted" and "confining" standards on other nations.

Ilk,

Sarcastic comments? Looks like you're out of real arguments, but you do get the Godwin's Law Award for mentioning Hitler. Congratulations! You deserve it.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 7, 2013 at 7:57 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

When you say, "yes, the world is getting smaller. More reason to preserve and protect unique cultures around the world, including our own," 1) what specific actions would you like to see to preserve and protect "unique" cultures, and 2) what is the difference between a unique and non-unique culture?

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 7, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DeLaRick, your last post is spot-on.

Some of the posters in here are acting like the Olympics should be restricted only to wealthy countries (I.e. U.S., Canada, W. Europe and Japan only).

That's pretty damn narrow-minded thinking that seems more appropriate for 1950 than 2013.

The Olympics are going to be held in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, and Rio has many of he same problems any large city in a developing country has (incl. Tijuana).

If you dislike Mexico then just be honest and say that's why you don't like this idea, but don't hide your xenophobia behind this veil of "it CAN'T be done, because it can. You simply don't want it to be.

Delhi pulled off the Commonwealth games in 2010 ( 3rd largest international sporting event after the Olympics and Asian games) despite xenophobes saying it was too poor, too lacking in infrastructure, too dirty, etc. etc. all the same tired excuses being regurgitated in here.

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 7, 2013 at 10 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

By the way, I heard Romney is now willing o support this?

If that's really true then good for him - this can only get one if it's a bi-partisan effort.

His Olympic expertise would come in useful here, I hope he is going to help get this accomplished .

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 8, 2013 at 1:51 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

You may call them "laughably," but remember, it was YOU who ranted about calling them the SDLFF and the African-American Film Festival. Again, what pray tell would you prefer to call the SDLFF??? Please forward your suggestions to Ethan. And I am only taking you to task on your statement that "African-American" is making it a "racial event" as opposed to "African Film Festival." What if they don't screen films from Africa as this festival??? What do we call it then? And why do you make exceptions for calling a festival the Jewish Film Fest or the Gay Fest??? Where is the logic in that? You stepped into the muck and now your'e stuck in the muck.

My error, not the Olympics but the World Cup held in South Africa in 2010, which is nearly as big an international event. In my haste, I blew it. Still, the point is the high crime rate in South Africa. The high crime was not an obstacle for holding the Cup there. Look it up.

And if you think that a 1968 Mexico is the same as a post 2000 mexico, you know even less about Mexico than I thought. Look up the stats, N'awlns and DC, for example, have a higher homicide rate than Mexico City. That would be current statistics, NOT 1968 stats. By the way, our CIA helped Mexico City LE remove the pre-Olympic American hippies hanging out in the streets.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 8, 2013 at 2:56 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

I'd like to see Californian culture recognized as having value. Then see efforts being made to preserve it as our unifying culture. All cultures are unique, but some less dominant cultures take more effort to preserve, especially when a foreign culture is subverting it.

The Olympics are about recognizing cultures from around the world with the host city being given the biggest spotlight. Having a joint Olympics with Tijuana would reduce that benefit and further erode the uniqueness of our city and culture just as it would for Tijuana.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 8, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Duck,

Nobody is suggesting the Olympics only be held in wealthy countries. Safe, yes.

Also I'm not sure you understand the definition of xenophobia. A dislike of intestinal parasites, crime, pollution, and poor infrastructure is not xenophobia. While some are more used to those things, I'm absolutely positive any normal human would prefer to avoid them.

Oh I'm glad to see you and Romney are best buddies now despite all the nasty things you said about him during the election. Funny how that happens.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 8, 2013 at 4:10 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Mission,

Exasperating. You don't debate so much as irritate. When another article comes out about film festivals, and I'm sure one will, I'd be happy to explain my points in detail that will bring clarity to your life.

Mexico City is not Tijuana. Just as New Orleans and DC are not San Diego. I would never recommend the Olympics be held in New Orleans, DC, Detroit, Chicago, etc. They are terrible venues for anything global.

And yes, I'm aware the CIA helped the Mexican government commit that Olympic massacre. It was a horrific act, or as they call it in the CIA, a normal Tuesday.

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 8, 2013 at 9:01 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Not best buddies and I stand by my criticism fom the election, but I think it's good he's doing this. Doesn't mean I lie his politics, it means I think we have a better shit if he's spearheading this.

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 8, 2013 at 9:03 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ok, I SWEAR the spelling error above was autocorrect on my iPad :-). Should be 'better shot'

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 9, 2013 at 7:58 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

"I'd like to see Californian culture recognized as having value. Then see efforts being made to preserve it as our unifying culture. All cultures are unique, but some less dominant cultures take more effort to preserve, especially when a foreign culture is subverting it."

So, you want an official declaration from Governor Brown that California culture officially has value? What "efforts" are you talking about? Also, if an individual can identify with more than one culture, why can't a place? After all, isn't the culture of a place composed of its people?

I'm just not sure that you really have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to culture. If all you want to say is "Gee, it sure is dirty and poor down there in Mexico," just say it, but don't act as if the border is where one culture ends and another, entirely unique culture begins.

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Missionaccomplished | May 9, 2013 at 11:42 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Mr. Cultural Chauvinist, what culture is "subverting" white anglo-saxon protestant culture???

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 12:18 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Duck,

I spit coffee all over my computer, thanks for the laugh! Good ol' autocorrect. Yes, I agree, we'd all take a better sh_ _ if Romney spearheaded this. He's a stool softener, much like his politics.

Ilk,

No, I don't mean an official statement from Brown...especially not Brown. What I mean is a societal effort that recognizes our culture as having worth. Just look at Texans, not that I like them, but they have a solid identity to the point they refer to themselves as Texan before American or whatever else. They have pride in who they are.

Not true of Californians. We've become overly focused on multiculturalism to the point we have forgotten what Californian is. That is a betrayal to those who have lived here for generations and those who come here to adopt the unique Californian culture.

Sure you can identity with more than one culture, but the one that represents you externally should be the native culture of the place you live.

I could not imagine living in Mexico and expecting Mexicans to speak English, make my food, play my music, honor my heroes, and fly my flags. That is imperialism and wrong. I would study their history, customs, and way of life until it became second nature to me. I would want locals to recognize me as a fellow local.

Is it wrong to ask for the same respect for our Californian culture?

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 9, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Who said our culture doesn't have worth?

Weren't you opposed to Muslim women having their own after-hours women-only swim session at the Y? Seems like an odd way to preserve unique cultures.

I can only assume that by talking about the "native culture" of the place we live, you're referring to the Kumeyaay. Do you represent yourself externally with their customary regalia? If not, you're subverting them, just so you know.

The fact that you think Californians are "overly focused" on multiculturalism, as opposed to simply being aware of and taking pride in our multiculturalism reveals to me that you're somewhat out of touch with reality. It's precisely that multiculturalism that makes us unique. And Hitler would've hated it.

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CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Missionfailed,

I'm not a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, so I have no idea who is subverting their culture. Why don't you go to 5th Century England, find out, and report back. Hurry, as we're all anxious to know!

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 9, 2013 at 12:34 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

"I would study their history, customs, and way of life until it became second nature to me."

Well, since I get the feeling you're not about to actually do that anytime soon, here's a quick Mexican culture lesson: a large part of Mexican identity is Mestizo. It means mix. It refers to the blending of German and indigenous (Aztec) ancestry, and it's a point of national pride. Now please proceed with your obligatory criticisms of that.

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CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 1:22 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

Who said our culture doesn't have worth? Chicano Park is the perfect example.

As for Muslims demanding segregated time at the Y, that is wrong, unless you support segregation. None of these foreign cultures wish to adopt the Californian culture, so they demand segregation. Sadly, that might be the only way to preserve Californian culture as well.

Kumeyaay? I completely agree with you. I wish the Spaniards wouldn't have forced their own culture upon them centuries ago. Any Olympic effort in San Diego should recognize and celebrate the Kumeyaay culture.

And another Godwin Award for Ilk. You have no valid argument, thus reductio ad Hitlerum.

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llk | May 9, 2013 at 1:35 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Chicano culture is part of San Diego culture, so I have no idea what you're talking about, unless by "our culture" you mean "white San Diego culture" (which I'm assuming you don't mean, because that would be awfully racist).

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 1:53 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

I an quite well versed in Mexican culture and history. But apparently you're confused. Mestizo means mixing of ANY native blood (Aztec, Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc) with ANY foreign blood, but generally assumed to be Spanish, not German. The term has no inherent culture and is simply a loose ancestral identifier.

Now please tell me what this has to do with San Diego hosting the Olympics. Just another distraction because you can't make a good argument for joint-hosting with Tijuana? Yep.

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llk | May 9, 2013 at 2:14 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Filner already made the argument: it's a thriving, multicultural metropolis. Greatest bi-national region in the world! You can't make a good one against it, is the problem.

I take it you're not going to elaborate on what you said about Chicano Park debasing the worth of "our" culture?

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

Chicano isn't a culture or a race but an ancestral identifier, much like Mestizo. In fact, it is more of a political statement, like asserting yourself as conservative or liberal.

I completely disagree with Filner's opinion that we are a "multicultural metropolis" and "greatest bi-national region in the world". It is quite arrogant and ill informed to suggest that.

We respect all cultures in San Diego, but at the end of the day we are still Californian. "Multicultural" is just a buzz word with a political agenda focused on diminishing (if not eliminating) our Californian culture.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 9, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Californian isn't a culture or a race, nor is it an ancestral identifier. It refers to someone living within the administrative boundaries of the State of California, USA. Every bit as political a statement as the "Chicano" label, except with a less meaningful cultural component. Now, once again, please attempt to explain how the existence of Chicano Park decreases California's cultural "value."

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 9, 2013 at 2:49 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

"Now please tell me what this has to do with San Diego hosting the Olympics. Just another distraction because you can't make a good argument for joint-hosting with Tijuana? Yep."

San Diego has no shot of hosting the Olympics because we're the same town which:
1- Let a fast-talkin' baseball executive swindle the city into building Petco Park.
2- Lost an NBA franchise at the dawn of the Jordan-era because of a dilapidated arena(which still exists today).
3- Can't build our NFL franchise a new stadium.
4- Has been blacklisted for hosting Super Bowls by the NFL for having an outdated stadium and inadequate facilities.

The Olympics are a world event. The only way San Diego would even get into the conversation would be by presenting an idea for a bi-national Olympiad with Tijuana. Something tells me some people would rather skip the whole idea if it meant including Mexico.

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CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Oh, you wanted me to explain how Chicano Park suggests Californian culture is worthless.

Just look at the imagery, even the logo of the park itself which shows a hand reaching from Mexico and grabbing San Diego with the words "My Land" in Spanish. The intended "conquering" message of Chicano park is very clear and suggests that Californian culture is not to be respected, but replaced.

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CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 2:59 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

Californian is a culture, albeit one that has been diminished for decades, making it more and more difficult to identify as each year goes by. If your goal is to make Californian just a meaningless administrative identifier, you may soon have that reality. Does that make you proud? Glad to have destroyed a culture?

DLR,

You're 100% right. All good reasons why the Olympics will never be held here. But why does the gimmick of hosting with Tijuana change that? Are their sporting facilities better? Would they compensate for what we lack?

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 9, 2013 at 3:24 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

What you don't seem to understand is that there are many cultures existing simultaneously within this administrative unit called California, USA. There are the Kumeyaay, who were here first, then the Spanish, then the Mexicans, then the white Americans, then the Chinese, then the Japanese, then the Filipinos, then the Somalians, then the Chaldeans, etc. We all live together in San Diego now, as Californians, and no one cultural or racial identity owns it, proving that multiculturalism is not a myth or a political buzzword, but a reality.

I'm not destroying anything, and neither is Chicano Park. Obviously the "my land" mural made you think, which is the point of that artwork, but you still didn't identify how it suggests one culture is worth more or less than another. To me, the only thing that mural suggests is that one group inhabitated the land before another, which is true. Probably stung, don't you think? Can't say I blame the first group for feeling that way.

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llk | May 9, 2013 at 3:42 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Oh and by the way, if multiculturalism doesn't count, what is "true" California culture anyway? Surfing? Being stuck in traffic? Being superficial and spending thousands on plastic surgery? Eating lots of sushi and tacos -- er, I mean, uh, In-N-Out?

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CaliforniaDefender | May 9, 2013 at 4:10 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

So you consider California as just an administrative unit. What do you consider your culture to be?

Yes, you are destroying the Californian culture, but you don't think it exists, so how would you know.

Chicanos inhabited San Diego before Californians? No, they didn't. The term Chicano didn't even exist until 1947 and applies to US born Mexicans with a specific political agenda. Californians existed long before.

If you don't see the obvious conquering symbolism of the Chicano Park logo or the other militant images scattered throughout the park, then tell me what it suggests to you.

The fact that we're even having this discussion is another reason, amongst so many, why a joint Olympics with Tijuana will not work.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 9, 2013 at 4:34 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

I never said it was "just" an administrative unit, but if we have to draw a line around some land to identify that land's culture, the line we use is political, isn't it? I don't belong to just one cultural group and neither do you. We're a blend of several different ones. Generally speaking, my culture is Modern Western.

I don't see how you can tell me I'm destroying California culture if you can't even define it.

I never said Chicanos inhabited the California territory before white Americans, I said Mexicans did, and that's a fact. Used to be called Alta California before gringos made it the 31st United State.

I already told you what the Chicano Park mural suggests to me but I'll go ahead and repeat myself. To me, the only thing that mural suggests is that one group inhabitated the land before another, which is true.

I think discussion is a great reason why the San Diego-Tijuana Metropolis should be an Olympic bidder. After all, it's obviously misunderstood by people like you.

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DeLaRick | May 10, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

"But why does the gimmick of hosting with Tijuana change that? Are their sporting facilities better? Would they compensate for what we lack?"

CD,

The civilized world likes that sort of thing. In theory and spirit, the world strives towards inclusion, not exclusion. (Sadly, the world arcs towards the latter too often.) In the U.S., "Mexico" is a dirty word. Just ask any republican neurolinguist about that. However, it's not a dirty word in other parts of the world. I've been fortunate enough to have a little extra bread and time to travel. People all over this planet light-up when you tell them you're from California. California is great because of its geography, cities and people. All the cultures listed by IIk contribute to that greatness, despite what the media spoon-feeds you. The idea of a San Diego/Tijuana Olympiad would get the IOC's attention. It would be up to us to make it reality. By the way, besides the occasional "gringo" quip, most Mexicans don't have anuerysms when you mention "Americanos."

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BailOutMoreBanks | May 10, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

@DeLaRick "It's not considered a progressive city by any stretch precisely because of close-minded thinking by xenophobes."
(Well stated.)

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Avatar for user 'DIZZY'

DIZZY | May 11, 2013 at 8:08 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Hey DE LA RICK,Don't believe propaganda see this fact !WHITE 57.6%
Black persons, percent definition and source info Black persons, percent, 2010 (a) 6.7% 6.2%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent definition and source info American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2010 (a) 0.6% 1.0%
Asian persons, percent definition and source info Asian persons, percent, 2010 (a) 15.9% 13.0%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent definition and source info Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2010 (a) 0.5% 0.4%
Persons reporting two or more races, percent definition and source info Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2010 5.1% 4.9%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent definition and source info Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2010 (b) 28.8% 37.6%
White persons not Hispanic, percent definition and source info White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010 45.1%

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Missionaccomplished | May 13, 2013 at 8:29 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Chicanos inhabited San Diego before Californians? No, they didn't. The term Chicano didn't even exist until 1947 and applies to US born Mexicans with a specific political agenda. Californians existed long before. "

NEVER did like the confusing and quite frankly, irritating world "Chicano," and I can say the same for many a Mexican-American. that aside, what are you saying??? That Mexican-Americans DID NOT exist in CA? That there is NOT ONE SINGLE Mexican-American that may be . . . apolitical??? That English was spoken in the Pacific coast prior to Spanish??? That Mexican-Americans as a ethnic group did not exist prior to WWII or WW I??? Mmmaybe read the classic NORTH FROM MEXICO by Carey McWilliams and THE DECLINE OF THE CALIFORNIOS by Leonard Pitt . . . then we can talk.

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Missionaccomplished | May 13, 2013 at 10:49 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA Off never answered my question: who or whom is "subverting" white anglo-saxon Protestant culture? It doesn't matter that you are not yourself, but you DID claim that it is being "subverted."

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 14, 2013 at 2:23 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

"Modern Western" is your culture? That has to be the most politically correct term I've ever heard.

Just like many Americans, you're confused about your culture because you were told not to value it. At best you're an artificial amalgam of whatever is profitable to corporate America. Or worse, you adopt superficial bits of a foreign culture to be hip.

As for your interpretation of Chicano Park displaying a previous culture, when were the Aztecs or Mayans in San Diego? Never. The rest of the imagery depicts violent militants and dictators like Fidel Castro and Ho Chi Minh who is refer to as "Uncle Ho". That does not represent San Diego in any way and is quite offensive.

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CaliforniaDefender | May 14, 2013 at 3:03 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DLR,

I had no idea Republicans employed neurolinguists to make words "dirty". I don't think they're that smart, to be honest.

Obviously the Olympics are about inclusion and San Diego would welcome all nations, including Mexico, to participate. But you didn't answer my question. How would a joint Olympics with TJ improve the bid beyond being just a gimmick?

Also, I agree with you that people light up when you tell them you're Californian. Why? Because the Californian culture is UNIQUE. Yes, other cultures contribute, but we are not Mexican or Chinese or Somali. Some may retain elements of those cultures, but they are (should be) Californian first and foremost. Why else would they be here? Just for money and to spread their culture? If so, that is the definition of a conquistador.

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CaliforniaDefender | May 14, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Missionfailed,

Indeed Mexico controlled California, albeit a very short time, just 25 years. I was referring to Chicano which is an American radical political/militant group.

Also, I STILL can't tell you who is subverting white Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture. Everybody else? As that specific historical group is not very prevalent in California, it really isn't my interest. Perhaps you should ask a New Yorker.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 14, 2013 at 8:41 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Help me out and define California culture. What does it consist of. Tell me what's so unique about it. I find it hard to believe you could name a single element that wouldn't also be found in Oregon or Arizona. Or Mexico or Canada for that matter.

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Avatar for user 'benz72'

benz72 | May 15, 2013 at 7:07 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

"Help me out and define California culture"
Strong aversion to the use of turn signals?

"Tell me what's so unique about it. I find it hard to believe you could name a single element that wouldn't also be found in Oregon or Arizona. Or Mexico or Canada for that matter"
Using the definition I think it would be hard to define ANY culture. Do not most elements of most cultures reappear (perhaps slightly modified) in adjacent cultures? Could you give an example of this uniqueness you are looking for?

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 15, 2013 at 12:19 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Man are you a pain in the derrier!, CA Off! Nevermind mind that Mexico loosely governed the area for only twenty-five. I'm talking about the fact that the Spanish settled it long ago and Castillan Spanish was spoken here at least ovr two centuries before English EVER was. Remember, it's San Francisco, not Saint Frank or Saint Francois. You KNOW that's what I meant!

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 16, 2013 at 7:36 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

That's strange, I really thought that CaliforniaDefender would've dropped by to define "California Culture" for us once and for all by now. He must be too busy defending California from itself elsewhere.

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Missionaccomplished | May 16, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

lol, ILK. I wonder what kind of "culture" someone like . . . "Nevada Defender" would be defending? Gambling and showgirls?

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 16, 2013 at 9 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

How about "Leftist Defender"? Oh, they would act exactly like Ilk does.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 16, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Calling someone out for making the racist suggestion that Mexican culture isn't part of California culture isn't leftist, it's the right thing to do. Just call me All Things Good and Reasonable Defender, I guess.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 16, 2013 at 9:18 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

By the way, that's not a FRENCH name you've got there, is it, JeanMarc? You might want to think about assimilating to our AMERICAN culture sometime soon.

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 16, 2013 at 2:43 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

I have assimilated into the constitutional united states. I am not sure why there are so many leftists who think the constitution doesn't matter anymore. Is that the culture you are talking about?

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Peking_Duck_SD | May 16, 2013 at 3:32 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

JeanMarc | today at 2:43 p.m. ― 39 minutes ago

"I have assimilated into the constitutional united states. I am not sure why there are so many leftists who think the constitution doesn't matter anymore. Is that the culture you are talking about?"

It's the conservatives who cherry-pick the constitution.

Defend and even over-reach with the 2nd amendment then call for the repeal of the 14th amendment's citizenship clause.

In other words, cherry pick what they like and try to get rid of what they don't.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 16, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

Is the Californian culture really a mystery to you? I'm sorry that you don't identify with it, or any culture, as it is what makes life interesting.

You want me to name a unique element that doesn't exist in Arizona, Oregon, Mexico, or Canada? How about our beach culture? It generated a new style of music, beach rock (Beach Boys, for instance) and made surfing popular around the globe.

Hollywood...Dreamworks, Warner Bros, Disney, UA, MGM, etc...another unique aspect of the culture. Silicone Valley...Apple, Google, Intel, Yahoo, HP, Oracle, Cisco, eBay, etc. Many political and environmental initiatives are unique as well.

I could go on and on and on with food, music, art... but why? You'll probably just scoff and thumb your nose because culture is meaningless to you.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 16, 2013 at 5:31 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Oh, great, you finally defined it!

Soooo, going back to your following three statements:

(1) "Not true of Californians. We've become overly focused on multiculturalism to the point we have forgotten what Californian is. That is a betrayal to those who have lived here for generations and those who come here to adopt the unique Californian culture."

(2) "'Multicultural' is just a buzz word with a political agenda focused on diminishing (if not eliminating) our Californian culture." and

(3) "Californian is a culture, albeit one that has been diminished for decades, making it more and more difficult to identify as each year goes by."

How EXACTLY do multicultural and/or foreign (read: Mexican) cultural influences betray and diminish this uniquely California culture of: hanging out at the beach (which I'm fairly positive Mexicans also enjoy), listening to the Beach Boys (I'm sure at least a few Mexicans like them), producing/watching movies (last I checked Mexicans enjoy movies, probably a couple working in Hollywood too), developing software (probably a safe bet those offices aren't 100% white Americans).

As far as your attempt to include unique political and environmental iniatives, well I couldn't agree more. But weren't you talking specifically about culture, and not politics? Otherwise, why would you chide me for referring to it as an administrative unit?

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 16, 2013 at 5:45 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Missionfailed,

Many people in Nevada would be quite offended that you think their culture is just Las Vegas. It would be like saying the Mexican culture is just Tijuana.

Yes, the Spanish settled California centuries ago, but it wasn't two centuries before English was spoken here. Try 37 years. Google Sir Francis Drake if you're confused.

And the Spanish didn't call their settlement San Francisco. They called it Yerba Buena. Guess who named it San Francisco? An English-speaker, Washington Bartlett.

What is your point about Spanish? Yes it is part of the Californian culture, mostly Castilian Spanish. So too Russian, Italian, German, and Chinese. But the root of our linguistic culture is English.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 16, 2013 at 6:16 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

Just because I like mariachi music and chile rellenos, does that mean they are Californian? Of course not and vice versa for all your points.

Cultures influence each other all the time. They can also destroy another. Mexican culture has influenced California for a long time, but it is now moving from influence to destruction. Reason being many Mexicans feel no need/desire to assimilate and some Californians, such as yourself, think having pride in it is a negative or even racist.

You're stuck on Californian being white. This discussion has nothing to do with race, Ilk. Your race does not determine your culture. How you are raised does.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 16, 2013 at 9:12 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

You still don't get it! You're the one stuck on California being white, not me! You fail to understand that populations change over time, and culture changes with it. Mexican-Americans and their culture has more to do with being Californian these days than your baby boomer Beach Boys B.S. Latino culture is alive and well in California culture and that's not changing any time soon, so get used to it.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 16, 2013 at 9:14 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

The fact that you think a mixed culture is destroying the older, whiter culture is some of the most racist stuff I've ever heard. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 17, 2013 at 8:50 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

What I want to know is... why do you care so much, ilk?

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llk | May 17, 2013 at 9:04 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

I find racism abhorrent and uncivilized.

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DeLaRick | May 17, 2013 at 11:08 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Bravo IIk!!!

California is lots of different things to lots of different people ... even those who don't surf or listen to the Beach Boys. Personally, I prefer the undisputed king of surf music, Dick Dale. Who, by the way, used Lebanese musical scales to CREATE the genre.

What!?!?! The music cited by CA DEF as the backbone of California Culture is an amalgam of Lebanese music, Arabic music and American Rock 'n Roll?!?!

Hide the sheep! Spare the children! What's this world coming to?

All you haters can keep it comin'. With a little help from my friends on this board, your nonsense can be repudiated all day.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 17, 2013 at 12:51 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Glad to help defend the REAL California with ya, Rick!

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 17, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Why do some have this idea that culture is compartmentalized and contained within defined borders?

Look around the world, cultures blend.

If you go to East Africa, you see people eating some foods similar to India like chapati and simosas.

Go to Southern France and the culture is a merging of French and Spanish.

Look even in the United States - the state of New Mexico, for example. If any of you have been to Santa Fe or Taos, you see a very distinct culture of unique architecture, food, etc. and it's a blend of Native America, White/European, and Mexican influences.

Likewise, San Diego has influence from many different cultures - Mexican, Filipino, Anglo Midwestern U.S. culture, and others. These all come together to form a unique culture that is distinctly Southern-Californian.

For anyone to suggest San Diego's culture does not have Mexican influence is completely absurd.

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Peking_Duck_SD | May 17, 2013 at 3:18 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Seeing a Japanese woman in a wetsuit carrying a surfboard and meeting up with her white boyfriend who's in the military and has a blond crew-cut for some Baja-style fish tacos.

Now THAT'S San Diego culture!!!!!!

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 17, 2013 at 4:06 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Mexican-Americans and their culture has more to do with being Californian these days than your baby boomer Beach Boys B.S. - Ilk

===

Ilk, that is veiled racism. The only person here (and at every other debate) denigrating other cultures and races is you.

I have repeated time and time again that Californian culture is a mixture of other cultures and continues to be influenced by others to this day. Cultural influence is fine, replacement is not.

Your statement "Latino culture is alive and well in California culture and that's not changing any time soon, so get used to it." could be used by any racist conqueror in history. I'm sure Cortes said exactly the same thing to the Aztecs just before obliterating their culture.

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 17, 2013 at 4:14 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Oh so you pull the Godwin's Law card on me, but are comfortable putting words in Cortez's mouth. I see.

"I have repeated time and time again that Californian culture is a mixture of other cultures and continues to be influenced by others to this day."

True, and then you continue to say that that influence is now destroying it, do you not.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 17, 2013 at 4:31 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

DLR,

You and Ilk just feed off of each others inanity with the single objective to twist every debate into senseless babble. You have absolutely no concept of my point.

Duck,

Be careful not to put yourself in the same walnut bag as Ilk and DLR. I have respect for you and the way you present your views even if we don't always agree.

But nobody is suggesting that San Diego's culture has not been influenced by Mexico. CLEARLY we are and vice versa. Everything you said is correct. But in the end, I hope the Japanese woman and her blond military boyfriend discuss how happy they are to have become Californian over those fish tacos. That would make my day.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 17, 2013 at 4:41 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ilk,

So you're creating the Cortes Card? We might as well play poker now. It would be far more productive.

Influence: A power affecting a person or thing, especially one that operates without any direct or apparent effort.

Substitution: The action of replacing someone or something with another person or thing.

Do you understand the difference between those two terms?

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Avatar for user 'llk'

llk | May 17, 2013 at 5:03 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Yeah, yeah, semantic point, got it, thanks. I get your larger point, too: Chicano Park mural: bad and scary art. The Beach Boys: innovative cultural touchstone, quite good. Mexican-American culture is tolerable as long as they stress the American part of it. Got it. Thanks. Let's move on to the next 100-comment article.

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 17, 2013 at 5:42 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

The graffiti at chicano park is not bad and scary art, it is trash. None of the "culture" depicted on those so called murals is from california. I take that back, it does have some of the california extreme leftist communist culture in it.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 17, 2013 at 5:59 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Ending your comments by being snarky and inaccurate, Ilk?

I'll end mine on topic:

I encourage an Olympic bid by San Diego to show the world what a proud, cultured, and vibrant city we are.

I encourage a competing bid by Tijuana to show the world what a proud, cultured, and vibrant city they are.

In the spirit of Olympic competition, may the best city win.

Moving on...

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | May 18, 2013 at 8:59 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA DEF,

Ouch! I'm still waiting for your explanation about how surf culture is indegenous to California even though it was adapted from Polynesians. And, how surf music is indigenous to Calfornia even though the inventor was Lebanese/American. And, how Mexican culture is devoid of merit.

Your attempt to play "split the kids/liberals" with us was quaint. The burden of proof is on anyone making a racist argument. Yours went from latent to benign to overt. The more inane your comments were, the stronger the responses. Call it a negative feedback loop if you like. By the way, I hate your comments, not you.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 20, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

@ILK, he HAS ASsimiliated, That's why I call him John Mark.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 20, 2013 at 10:04 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

@CA OFF, besides Vegas and those CA border cities like Carson and Laughlin, pray tell what else is there besides desert???

I'm using hyperbole of course, but you get my point.

As far as Tijuana and the rest of Mexico, there are better places, of course, but there are also much worse, like Juarez and places like Sinaloa.

I believe what these posters are pointing out and you fail to understand, is not the popular culture and industry that you talk about, but rather that which was derived from history and tradition. Example: the Mormom Church is part of the culture in Utah, but nowhere else in the USA.; Cajun cooking is part of the culture in Lousiana. California's Spanish--later Mexican heritage is part of contemporary California's, your opinion not withstanding.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 20, 2013 at 10:40 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

@ILK, CA O and immigration restrictionists as a whole fail to understand that demographics change. This happens everywhere. Populations rise and fall and move. It is a very simple historical/geographic/sociological concept, but too difficult for some to accept/understand. They become territorial. which man generally, but they take it to an extreme.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 20, 2013 at 10:59 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Cortes Card? That's new to me? What does that mean, CA off? Is that some new rightwing self-exonerating buzzword like "race card"??? And shouldn't that be, "Cortez"?

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 20, 2013 at 12:28 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Looks like we're not moving on.

But this is an interesting debate albeit off-topic and repeatedly derailed by non sequitur.

Just observe DLR who conjures up red herrings better than a White House press secretary. But I'll respond anyway.

Surfing was not invented in California. The Californian surfing culture (which I referenced) obviously was. Surf rock was developed in the culture of California by a Bostonian. Ok you got me...an East Coaster. But he did learn about Arabic music from his Lebanese uncle! Funny how people go to great lengths to hyphenate themselves. I guess being a boring Bostonian was too uncool for a surf rock band.

And now for DLR's 100 pound red herring! Whoa, she's a big one: Suggesting I made racist comments like "Mexican culture is devoid of merit." Please tell your fellow anglers how you caught that mighty fish. Is your boat named "Ad Hominem"?

Keep fishing DLR. Eventually you'll catch the truth.

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 20, 2013 at 1:56 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

So anyone have any ideas for a logo for the world's first bi-national Olympic Games?

Hopefully the cities will put up a website soon where early planning can start and discussion can begin around making this a reality.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 20, 2013 at 2:41 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Missionfailed,

The Mormon Church originated in New York, not Utah. Also Cajun is a specific French ethnicity originating from a single group of French exiles that has miraculously survived for over 250 years. Wouldn't it be great if more ethnic cultures in America were protected, preserved, and celebrated...like Californian?

Also, you speak of demographic shifts as natural (even positive) in some instances, like the decline of Californians, yet as a negative in other instances, like the decline of Native Americans. Why the double-standard?

And "Cortes" is the correct spelling. But keep fishing with DLR and maybe you'll catch that elusive "z" someday.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 20, 2013 at 4:09 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Duck,

Please give up this fantasy. The 2024 joint bid is already dead for four good reasons:

1. The Chief of Bids for the US Olympic Committee has already told Filner that the IOC charter doesn't allow for bordering countries to host the Games. He clearly stated "There's no opportunity for them to bid together."

2. San Diego already tried this in 2006 with a bid for the 2016 Olympics and was denied by the USOC. $300,000 was wasted on the bid.

3. The Mexican Senate does not favor the plan and has declared support for Guadalajara to be the Mexican bid for 2024.

4. Other cities, such as LA, are laughing at us for even suggesting a joint bid:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-tijuana-san-diego-olympic-bid-dead-20130430,0,5817617.story

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 20, 2013 at 9:53 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

HAHAHAHA LA sounds nervous.

LA always writes us off as the red-headed step child of CA cities.

SF and LA for all their culture and diversity can never be what we are - part of a bi-national metropolis.

When I read that article I see a bunch of LA snobs who are trying keep us as quiet little 'ol in the shadows of LA SD.

I say let's prove to SF AND LA that San Diego is the progressive city of California's future.

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 21, 2013 at 9:07 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Let's not.

"Progressive" is just the current iteration of the communist movement in this country and most people who call themselves progressives like you are nothing but the "useful idiots" who have been duped into the bidding of people in power, who have a real agenda, and agenda they have been pursuing for several decades.

You will deny this, you probably don't even know it, and never even thought about it.

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | May 21, 2013 at 2:04 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Sorry JeanMarc, but I read your comments in the climate change article about the world's climate experts being in some conspiracy with communists to lie about their research. Someone spewing these insane conspiracy theories with no proof has no business calling others "idiots".

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 21, 2013 at 2:45 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

It wasn't me who called them useful idiots, it was the communist leaders of our recent past talking about people like you who take the bait, hook, line, and sinker caving in to their emotions instead of using rational thought to make decisions.

99% of the people who march for a cause are just puppets being manipulated by people who understand mass psychology, who are using the masses to further their agenda. I hope you like being a pawn.

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Avatar for user 'JeanMarc'

JeanMarc | May 21, 2013 at 2:51 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

And, as I predicted, you sidestepped the statement I made and instead brought up a strawman about something I said elsewhere.

Why don't you look into the roots of the progressive movement. You will see that what I am saying is hardly a conspiracy theory. A little education would be good for you.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 21, 2013 at 3:07 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Duck,

Did we read the same article? LA is laughing at Filner. Unfortunately that makes all San Diegans look like clowns to Los Angelenos even though Filner is not from here.

So you disregard point 4. Fine. How about the other three?

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 22, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

@CA Off, that's not my point.. You KNOW what my point is.

Buddhism originated in India but it is NOT a part of its culture today, as it is in Southeast Asia.

I notice that when it is convenient for your arguments, you take other other posters literally, when not, you don't. Sometimes you simply ignore while others you turn an anthill into Krakatoa. Please be consistent.

Define "Californian" because myself and others are still waiting . . .

So maybe I don't know what you exactly mean by "cortes"??? A Spanish legistlative body??? That's the definition I know. Peter Benchley spelled it with a "z" as wll as Hernando. Of course, you didn't answer what is meant by "Cortes card."

If you think we're getting no where maybe blame the thickness. (lol)

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 22, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

CA Off, LA may be "laughing" but it's a pot kettle balck for them as they are already having trouble agreeing to host the 50th anniversary of the SB.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 22, 2013 at 10 a.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

John Mark, the Cold War is over! Zsbigniew Brzyinzki declared it so. Stop looking for monsters under your bed! The boogey man is in your mind.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 22, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Missionfailed,

Thanks for the off-topic psychoanalysis. Now hold your screen up to a mirror, read your post backwards and you should have an epiphany.

When you're done, you'll also understand the meaning of Californian culture. No wait, that happens when you interact with Californians. You should try it more often and in a less confrontational manner.

San Diego for 2024 Olympics!

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | May 23, 2013 at 2:28 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Oh, forget it, CA, you ignore what you are unable to answer or would prefer not to answer, you skirt the issues and then deflect other points with some smart-alecky remark! It's no use

See my comment on today's UCSD's studying imagination article. (lol)

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | May 23, 2013 at 6:27 p.m. ― 1 year, 4 months ago

Missionfailed,

Exactly what am I unable to answer? Californian culture has already been covered.

The Cortes card was a joke about exactly THIS. Another one of your trips down a pointless off-topic road.

You're avoiding the debate about Filner's politically motivated joint bid with Tijuana. That is the article. That is the conversation. You keep turning it away.

But your last comment did make me laugh. Please, mission use that MIRROR!

San Diego for 2024 Olympics!

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