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Creation Museum Denied Membership By San Diego Museum Council

Santee is home to one of the few creationist museums in the country. Last week, the San Diego Museum Council voted not to allow The Museum of Creation and Earth membership into its group.

Aired 11/13/13 on KPBS News.

The San Diego Museum Council has voted to reject the membership application of the Museum of Creation and Earth, located in Santee.

The creation museum needed 21 "yes" votes to become a council member. They lost by only two votes.

The museum presents a biblical account of creation through its exhibits and education programs.

Danielle Susalla Deery is president of the San Diego Museum Council. She said the museum's membership was not rejected because of its mission but because of other factors.

"Like their animal care and the protocol and care of their exhibitions and storage. They had a lot of areas that were not in line with membership guidelines. They have a staff member on the board of directors and that’s not good governance," Deery said.

As part of the application process, members of the council's membership committee visited the Santee-based Creation Museum. They recommended that the council accept the museum's application and grant it membership. But when it came time to vote, the "yes" votes weren’t there.

Museum of Creation and Earth president Tom Cantor said he’s not happy with the result.

"I’m afraid we are being opposed for nothing more than the old prejudice against God," Cantor said.

He went on to make a comparison between the museum's fight for respect and a moment in history.

"It’s like we’re in Selma, Alabama in the 1950s and I want to have a museum on black Americans," he said. "Do you think I’ll be accepted by the council of museums in Selma, Alabama?"

Membership on the Museum Council comes with marketing support and exposure, as well as training. There are currently 39 members, including the museums in Balboa Park.

The Creation Museum was founded in 1992 and averages 30,000 visitors annually.

Cantor said despite his frustration, the museum will make the recommended improvements and reapply for membership next year.

Comments

Avatar for user 'SDforward'

SDforward | November 13, 2013 at 7:50 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

They should apply for membership to an amusement park or entertainment association instead. Validating them as an educational museum pretty much changes the definition of a museum and would be a very odd move for the Museum Council. A museum based on fantasy and counter to scientific fact does not deserve recognition.

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Avatar for user 'jerzo'

jerzo | November 13, 2013 at 8:27 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Including the Santee Creationist Museum in the San Diego Museum Council would be a big mistake. It would confer a legitimate museum label on a museum based on pseudoscience and faith-based reasoning. There is no scientific basis for creationism, which completely lacks explanatory and predictive power. On the other hand, the theory of evolution readily explains the unity and diversity of life on earth.

Museums, especially museums dealing with scientific phenomena should provide consensus science to the public. Creationism and its more recent offspring, Intelligent Design creationism, have no place in a scientific museum setting. Taking children to such museums is similar to the indoctrination provided by dictatorships, and, I believe, is a form of mental torture.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 9:36 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Okay, let the TRUTH be told, only a few members of the museum council came out to visit. The company that owns the museum is AALAC certified with its animals. The museum is spotless, and is immaculate compared to any other museums on the council. The bottom line is that the dozens of prejudice, and biased secular atheist members on the board did not want the musuem supported due to its message and content, NOT because of the animal care and storage or board info. That is a complete and utter LIE just as evolution is a lie that is sold in masses educationally since 1950"s and in the 1990"s God was kicked out of the classroom so that men and women could put away conviction of their sin. Don't hold the TRUTH in unrighteousness today and receive eternal life!

There is no proof of evolution, not one proof or evidence, only theories and this is another attempt by god hating atheists to try and keep a cover on the TRUTH of God, the TRUTHFUL evidence of creationism and science. You can't provide one evidence of macro-evolution, only micro or adaptation, and this awesome museum presents the TRUTH of science, using the scientific method, not theories, and proves that the Bible matches science and so does the fossil record and historical accounts. Modern scientist who hate God and love their sin try to conceal the TRUTH, but the TRUTH will MAKE you free (John 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free").

<p>www.EvolutionVsGod.com is evidence enough that there is ZERO evidence for evolution in science and it's the great cover up. I dare you to watch it and prove me wrong. It's sin that keeps people from the TRUTH. But the Lord Jesus Christ died to set sinners free from their burden of sin, shame, guilt and defilement. You can know the TRUTH today if you'll open your mind, not be prejudiced based on your sheltered education in public schools, and unbias your heart towards God. You are created, God (the Lord Jesus Christ) created you, and He died for you on the cross of calvary taking your place for sin, and all you need to do is turn and trust Him wholly in your heart for your forgiveness and restoration www.NeedGod.com

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 9:40 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Romans 1
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 9:41 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

See your lost condition today, turn to the Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ who is God, and put your faith and trust in Him. He will restore you and resurrect you to new life in Him!

John 3
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
[21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Revelation 20
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Romans 10
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Titus 3
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
[7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Colossians 1 (Speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ)
[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | November 13, 2013 at 9:55 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Don't they already have museums for Creationism? I think they're called "churches."

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 10:21 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

The great thing about God and the Bible is that you don't have to go to church to fall under conviction of your sin and wrong against God. You were designed with a build in conscious that tells you when you have done right or wrong, and you innately know that murder is wrong, adultery is wrong, lying is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc...HOW? Your conscious that God designed you with matches the 10 commandments, and that is why no doctor can perform a guilt-ectomy for sin and shame and wrong. This is why doctors have drugged up 1 in 4 Americans on anti-anxiety and anti-depression meds. They are befuddled and overwhelmed with guilt and shame against God through their conscious conviction. So we are all guilty before God with or without church or even the Bible. NOTHING cannot create NOTHING. It's impossible! That is scientifically proven! Your conscious convicts you that you need God and His forgiveness, but your human sinful will and flesh wants to sin and sin all it can without accountability, but God made you with a conscious and there is no getting away from His conviction of your sin on you heart, except only to sear your conscious with your rejection of His love, forgiveness, and restoration. Watch this video on John Lennon and see the wickedness of man's heart in light of his conscious conviction.

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Avatar for user 'Eddie89'

Eddie89 | November 13, 2013 at 10:41 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

LOL! What a riot! The San Diego Museum Council actually considered adding a fake museum to the group? LOL!

Money Quote: "It’s like we’re in Selma, Alabama in the 1950s and I want to have a museum on black Americans," he said. "Do you think I’ll be accepted by the council of museums in Selma, Alabama?"

Well, black Americans actually exist. They're "REAL".

Creationism is not! And they can't prove it using facts and actual evidence.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Eddie 89 - There is significant evidence of Creationism....you are the one with more faith than anyone on the planet who believes the god-hating lie of evolution theories with absolutely NO ZERO ZIPPO NADA evidence! Wake up and smell the evolutionary lie. It is scientific, you can't create something out of nothing, that can be proven. You need something supernatural, a designer for something to come out of nothing. To hold an believe your position based on NO evidence is insane and shows that just like the Nazi's sold Germany on the lie of the superior race, you have bought the evolutionary lie hook line and sinker. NO Evidence of Macro Evolution! The first and second laws of thermodynamics which can be proven agree perfectly with the Bible. www.EvolutionVsGod.com watch it and if you can disprove it let me know one scientifically provable evidence you have. There is none. You have bought the lie they sold you like opiate for the masses. It's a cover up so you believe you can live your life how you want with no accountability to the Designer, Creator, and God that made you and gave you life. Think about it logically and scientifically for a few minutes you have 45 miles of nerves and 65,000 miles of blood vessels laid out in your body and none of them intersect! That is design not chance. What came first? Your heart, blood, brain, lungs, liver, intestines, central nervous system, veins, colon, bladder, tissue? You cannot survive or live or evolve without either one of them. It's impossible that they would generate themselves from nothing. It's foolish to believe such a god hating lie that recent science has touted against God, but there are MANY scientists that are no evolutionary scientists, and there would be more if they weren't told they would be fired if they took a different position and lose their job and accreditation. There are many incidents of this on record. You can't mention God because people want to watch pornography, get divorced, lie, cheat, steal, rape, rob, murder, curse, hurt others emotionally and physically, buy and eat what they want and when they want, they don't want to give an account to any man or God. Why? Their sin against God their Creator as our Constitution says. No other nation on earth has CHOSEN God. Israel was chosen by God, but no other nation other than the USA chose God as their God and not other nation has been more blessed, but in it's selfrighteousness shuns THE Creator God of the universe. "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." - Patrick Henry

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Avatar for user 'oldwobbly'

oldwobbly | November 13, 2013 at 12:11 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

the currently accepted definition of museum:
"According to the ICOM Statutes, adopted during the 21st General Conference in Vienna, Austria, in 2007:
A museum is a non-profit, permanent institution in the service of society and its development, open to the public, which acquires, conserves, researches, communicates and exhibits the tangible and intangible heritage of humanity and its environment for the purposes of education, study and enjoyment.
This definition is a reference in the international community."

The Creation Museum's (sic) purpose is neither education nor service to humanity. It is a fantasy amusement center for the willfully ill-informed. Hardly a museum. It does no research of tangible or intangible heritage, it just makes up nonsense. You can't conserve history that never happened.

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Avatar for user 'HolodeckEpisode'

HolodeckEpisode | November 13, 2013 at 12:21 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

"It’s like we’re in Selma, Alabama in the 1950s and I want to have a museum on black Americans," he said. "Do you think I’ll be accepted by the council of museums in Selma, Alabama?"

WOW, that is the most ignorant thing I have heard in a long time.

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Avatar for user 'JohnnyBallgame'

JohnnyBallgame | November 13, 2013 at 12:35 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Some insane religious nut says there is no evidence of evolution on this board. Sir, please pull your head from your rear. Creationism is pathetic! Do yourself a favor and search the evolution of viruses and species which has been observed and proven with experiments in labs. The nerve of these idiots to try to counter scientific fact is PATHETIC. Grow a goddamned brain. Religious wackos please go away.Shoo fly shoo!

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 12:40 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

You have only insults, yet no evidence. Prove me wrong. www.EvolutionVsGod.com Even renouned professors had no evidence of macro evolution, only micro evolution and adaptation which is changes within species, not changes from one kind to another. (ie. Dog to an Elephant, or Plant to a Human). No evidence. Only adaptation which the Bible supports.Stop using insults to cover your ignorance of science and rejecting the Truth of the Bible. Insults are not evidence. Bring me evidence. You and other scientists have none. Just theories! Sorry. You are still accountable to God and your conscious for your sin. You are in trouble, but God the Creator, The Lord Jesus Christ, died to save you from your sins and the penalty of them which is death and eternal separation from God. He loved you that much to die for His creation, the one who gave you life from your mother's womb, the one that makes your heart beat 3.6 million times a year. You are not a god. You have accountability to the Creator of the universe. Nothing didn't make nothing.

Contrary to the SDMC vote the Creation & Earth History Museum represents the view of 78% Americans according to the 2012 Gallup poll regarding the origins of life.

1.) 46% of Americans believe God created humans in their present form

2.) 32% of Americans believe humans evolved with God guiding

3.) 15% of Americans believe that humans evolved and God had no part in the process

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Avatar for user 'Tarryn Mento'

Tarryn Mento, KPBS Staff | November 13, 2013 at 12:54 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Hey all -- Thanks for the lively debate! But while we encourage you all to share your thoughts and participate in the discussion, please keep in mind our Community Discussion Rules. If you haven't already, we ask that you review them: http://www.kpbs.org/about/terms-service/#rules-of-use.

Thanks!

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Avatar for user 'JohnnyBallgame'

JohnnyBallgame | November 13, 2013 at 1:08 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Shoo fly!

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Avatar for user 'benz72'

benz72 | November 13, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

123, please apply consistent standards of evidence.

Also, you may be interested in reviewing the Miller experiment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urey-Mil...

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 1:55 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

...and I am still waiting on scientific method proof of macro evolution...I will continue waiting as there is no scientific evidence, obsevabe proof, etc..only hypothesis that can't be tested or when tested are disproved as just theories..

Here is the definition of the Scientific Method:

The scientific method is used in science as a means of gaining understanding about the physical universe. There are differences of opinion on exactly what the scientific method is, but basically it consists of the following main parts.

Observation - a perception, viewing of a phenomena.
Hypothesis - a proposed explanation is developed to account what has been observed.
Experimentation - tests are developed to validate or invalidate the hypothesis.
Prediction - after tests and validation of the hypothesis, predictions are made based upon the evidence gathered in experimentation.
Theory - a theory is based upon a hypothesis, verified by testing, and is generally accepted as being an accurate explanation of phenomena.
So, with the scientific method, people attempt to understand something sufficiently to reproduce an event and/or accurately predict an event.

This means the phenomena is understood, we can understand Creation through the observable signs of evidence in the flood record, astronomy, etc.. Here are a few verses of scripture written in advance of scientific knowledge and method of proving. This shows that science matches the Bible and not the other way around when written.

The Bible says that each star is unique.
1 Corinthians 15:41 “There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.”

The Bible describes the Constellations (A grouping of stars that form a pattern)
Job 9:9 “Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.”

Job 26:13 “By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.”

Job 38:32 “Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?”

Bible describes the Precision Movement of the Universe
Jeremiah 31:35 “Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:”

The Bible describes the suspension of the Earth in space.
Job 26:7 “He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.”

The Bible describes the circulation of the atmosphere.
Ecclesiastes 1:6 “The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.”

The Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics.
Job 28:25 “To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.”

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 2:02 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

The Miller–Urey experiment produced what? Nothing. But they tried to take something and make into something else. Still not creation of nothing into something. Stop and think about it for two seconds. What did they make, chemicals into more chemicals. But it remains that scientists can't reproduce macro evolutionary effects and ALL of the evidence of the flood, astronomy, and our earth indicates an amazing Creator God that is far beyond our human level of understanding, and yes, faith is required for both positions, but the scientific evidence points to a Creator God...the same one our system of time, history, and US government was based on and created after. The Lord Jesus Christ. www.NeedGod.com

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Avatar for user 'benz72'

benz72 | November 13, 2013 at 2:34 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

"and I am still waiting on scientific method proof of macro evolution"
Is there some reason you have difficulty extrapolating a principle observable at the lab scale to a larger context?
We (humanity) are routinely constructing grander and taller buildings, larger and heavier ships and faster airplanes that fly higher, but we use the same principles observed in building houses, motorboats and Cessnas. There are technical barriers to specific successes, but they are not mystical.
When we do synthesize a cell, or show macro evolution (as we will, it really is just a matter of time scale) are you planning to acknowledge the uselessness of gods or do you expect to ask for greater achievements? What standard of proof would you accept for evolution and why do you insist on a different standard for your god?

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Avatar for user 'JohnnyBallgame'

JohnnyBallgame | November 13, 2013 at 2:35 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

LOL!! Wackos!

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Avatar for user 'benz72'

benz72 | November 13, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

"The Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics. Job 28:25 “To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.”

As a fluid dynamicist, I find the Navier-Stokes equations yield better predictions.

Read here if you want a better than biblical explanation

I find, at best, your assertions that science supports the requirement that a god exists to be an incorrect interpretation of experimental evidence.
As to the Miller experiment, was it your expectation that, while researching how chemical compounds essential to life could be synthesized in a supposed primordial atmosphere, the experimenter would for some reason create the components of that atmosphere? Please reread the procedure and results because that is not at all what he was attempting to show.

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Avatar for user 'JoeCuv'

JoeCuv | November 13, 2013 at 2:46 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

what-what-WHAT??? "It’s like we’re in Selma, Alabama in the 1950s and I want to have a museum on black Americans,"

Comparing racism in the 1950's on a class of U.S. citizens based on their skin color with this museum committee that voted against your membership of a museum that is based on unfounded religious beliefs is an insult to black people and to anyone else that does not share your personal religious views. Just because someone is brainwashed and delusional, and they have brainwashed delusional followers, that does not mean that public committees everywhere need to give them equal status when they were already afforded equal opportunity and got out-voted.

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Avatar for user 'Dive'

Dive | November 13, 2013 at 3:10 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

123emaile, I'm not here to question the validity of Creationism. But have you ever considered that your Christian creation myth is just one of many creation myths in the world? What makes yours more valid than the others, just because it is written in one particular holy text that you prefer? Also, don't you think that it's possible that your omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God could have created evolution? Your biblical literalism does not serve the greater message of Christianity, which is to live a good life and be nice to people.

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Avatar for user 'Eddie89'

Eddie89 | November 13, 2013 at 3:13 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

"This is a museum like the Flintstones is a documentary."

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Avatar for user 'Eddie89'

Eddie89 | November 13, 2013 at 3:19 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Desert dwelling, nomadic tribesmen didn't even know what caused rain! Yet they're supposed to have the answer to the creation of everything!?

I would rather put my money on Lawrence Krauss' theory on a universe from nothing.

"If we live in a universe full of stuff, how did it get here? And many people think that very question implies the need for a creator. But what's truly been amazing, and what the book's about is the revolutionary developments in both cosmology and particle physics over the past 30 or 40 years that have not only changed completely the way we think about the universe but made it clear that there's a plausible case for understanding precisely how a universe full of stuff, like the universe we live in, could result literally from nothing by natural processes."

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/13/145175263/lawrence-krauss-on-a-universe-from-nothing

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Avatar for user 'Eddie89'

Eddie89 | November 13, 2013 at 3:23 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

And if you have about an hour to kill, this should also be very elucidating!

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 3:51 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Notice the name calling, and lack of scientific evidence presented by all sides still. You still don't have an atom to stand on. Nothing cannot create nothing. It's scientifically impossible. You're theories and hypothesis are dead. You need eternal life, and to escape eternal death, but even UCLA, USC, and Berkley Professors don't have the answers you are missing and it's all caught on camera. www.EvolutionVsGod.com

Luke 13:3 "Except ye repent ye shall likewise perish."

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

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Avatar for user 'oldwobbly'

oldwobbly | November 13, 2013 at 3:58 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

123emaile, you would perhaps be taken a tad more seriously, if you communicated more coherently. An example: ussing "conscious" each and every time you might have meant "conscience" does make you seem dimmer than perhaps you are. Were you perhaps home-schooled? Sometimes family members who elect to home-school their children, in order that they not be exposed to any information other than the family's own faith-based beliefs, are themselves not terribly well educated, particularly in the fundamentals (as opposed to fundamentalism). Expecting people who do not accept your bible as anything greater than any other writing from it's time in pre-scientific history does not work as an argument. Quoting a bible verse and expecting that to suffice as proof of anything is like quoting from the back of a box or cereal, except the ingredients list on the cereal is empirically testable, and may be accurate.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 4:02 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Dawkins and Krauss don't have evidence they have an agenda to rid the world of religion. We don't have an agenda to rid the world of atheists, we just want atheists to rid themselves of unforgiven sin that will damn them to an eternity away from God, but we know that each soul and person has a free will choice to accept or reject God's provision for their sin.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2013/05/07/unbelievers-plan-rid-world-god

Theories and Hypothesis are not something you should place your eternity on. But your guilty God designed conscious is something you can use to know that there is a Creator and that He is against fornication outside marriage, liars, thieves, murders, blasphemers, disobedient people against their parents, and anyone that rejects the Creator and Savior who came to die for mankind that they might be forgiven and restored to a personal relationship with the God that created the amazing unreplicable body and universe that we have. The Bible says the universe is in His hand. That's how big my God is, and your god (you) will be squashed like a tomato if you don't repent and turn to Him for forgiveness. He loved you and died for you.

John 3
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 4:17 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Thank you for denoting my typo and misuse spelling. If you are hung up on spelling in the rush reply responses I have given, you are missing the point of your conscience (with knowledge) conviction. Science is provable "Certain Knowledge" from the Latin. Don't let my lack of spelling keep you from seeing the Truth. If you focus on that you'll be thinking about what I said in the rest of eternity and wishing your pride had not blinded you to the very simple child like concept that "Nothing Cannot Create Nothing". Please consider that as much as you reject scripture, the truth of God is written on your heart just as the Bible tells us. You were born bad, and if you will die not perfect but forgiven eternally through faith, or sinful unforgiven eternally through faith in ______(fill in the blank)_____. ie, SIN: Self will, Self Belief, Selfishness, Bad Science, etc....God created you, gave you life, you don't have to die in your sin of self righteous humanism and loftiness. Humble yourself....God is waiting for you there. (James 4:10)

Romans 1
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

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Avatar for user 'benz72'

benz72 | November 13, 2013 at 4:58 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Are you able to offer anything as proof of your theory? Most of what I see is quotations out of (a translation of) a collection of fables. Please present a serious testable hypothesis.

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Avatar for user 'sdreefer21'

sdreefer21 | November 13, 2013 at 5:32 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Whete was god when priests were molesting children? Slavery? The plague? Oh and what about all the times we as a society refer to as b.c.? Religion is as useful as a poopie flavored loli pop. You reference tachings taught to people who had no education and were easily manipulated like the sheep of the church. Oh and by the way god im sorry, whats that? Im forgiven just like that. Why thank you. Get off the cross we need the wood!

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 5:33 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

I have hundreds of proofs, scientifically proven, many very clear, and easy to understand. Again, the greatest evidence is your conscience that shows you have innate God given and designed conviction, guilt, and moral guidelines. You can chose to go against it and do what you like, and that is free well, so even if a person is uneducated, and in a 3rd world, they can look around, up and down, and see a Designer and Creator, and then seek to know who that person is and God will reveal Himself to them as the Lord Jesus Christ of whom all history is surrounded by His birth and death, and to which our country is established.

But from a science aspect, let's take one provable and observable testable fact that would indicate or show Creation to be true Vs. Evolution.

The First Law of Thermodynamics states that the total quantity of matter and
energy in the universe is constant. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that
matter and energy always tend to change from complex and ordered states to
disordered states. Therefore the universe could not have created itself, but could not
have existed forever, or it would have run down long ago. Thus the universe,
including matter and energy, apparently must have been created. The "big-bang"
theory of the origin of the universe contradicts much physical evidence and seemingly
can only be accepted by faith.1 This was also the case with the past cosmogonies
theories of evolutionists that have been discarded, such as Hoyle’s steady-state
theory. The universe has "obvious manifestations of an ordered, structured plan or
design." Similarly, the electron is materially inconceivable and yet it is so perfectly
known through its effects," yet a "strange rationale makes some physicists accept the
inconceivable electrons as real while refusing to accept the reality of a Designer."
"The inconceivability of some ultimate issue (which will always lie outside scientific
resolution) should not be allowed to rule out any theory that explains the interrelationship of observed data and is useful for prediction," in the words of Dr. Wernher von Braun, the renowned late physicist in the NASA space program.

Find more answers to these questions at
http://creationsd.org/insight-articles.html
or
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

If you are seeking God...He can be found if you seek for Him with sincerity, He will reveal Himself through certain knowledge which is science...but to receive Him it must be by faith and trust...but all positions have faith positions, but the Bible is based on certain truth and knowlege and science, but it's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as God that saves us by His free mercy and abundant grace.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 5:36 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Characteristics of logic.
1. Logic is immaterial. You cannot go to your refrigerator and pull out a stick of logic. Logic is not something you can touch, see, or quantify in some intelligible way.
2. Logic is absolute. Logic is not limited by restrictions or conditions. Logic is independent of any outside influences. Logic must be perfect in quality or nature, and it must be complete, or, by definition, logic becomes illogical.
3. Logic is universal. Logic affects everyone, everywhere. The various laws of logic apply in the United States, exactly as they do in Canada, Mexico, and a grass hut in some remote region of the world.
4. Logic is eternal. There is not beginning or end point of logic. Logic exists outside of time.
5. Logic is unchanging. Logic is constant. They are unchanging.
6. Logic is impartial. Logic is unbiased and unprejudiced. The laws of logic are not subject to the opinions or whims of men. While men are influenced by the laws of logic, men have no influence whatsoever on the laws of logic.
7. Logic is transcendent. The laws of logic are preeminent. They are supreme. Nothing can legitimately undermine or circumvent the laws of logic.

Characteristics/attributes of God.
1. God is immaterial. The Word of God declares that God is Spirit (John 4:24).
2. God is absolute. God is perfect (Deuteronomy 32:4; 2 Samuel 22:31). If God was imperfect, He would immediately cease to be God.
3. God is omnipresent/universal (Psalm 139:7-10).
4. God is eternal. He has no beginning or end. He is outside of space and time (Isaiah 57:15).
5. God is immutable/unchanging (James 1:17).
6. God is impartial/not bribed (Deuteronomy 10:17).
7. God is sovereign/transcendent (1 Timothy 6:13-16).

Without God there can be no logic. Logic is, by its very nature and design, a reflection of the character and attributes of God. Apart from God you (and no one else, for that matter) can give no accounting for your ability to reason. Without God, we would live in an utterly random, illogical, unintellectual, unreasonable universe.

Evolution can give NO legitimate accounting for logic, intellect, or reason. They have to take from the Christian worldview in order to do so—in order to argue against the Christian worldview. According to theoretical atheistic evolution, we are merely the byproduct of chance encounters of meaningless particles in a chaotic, disorderly universe, which, in and of itself, cannot give an explanation for the obvious intricacies of the design and order of the universe.

Bottom line is you see and understand what I have just shared with you via email, and in the world and universe around you. You are applying logic and reason to your thinking, yet denying the One who not only created logic and reason, but gave you the ability to think logically and reasonably…which is God. It is an impossible task to remove the Great Logician from one of the very things that testifies to His magnificent character…logic.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | November 13, 2013 at 5:37 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

"Nothing cannot create nothing." -123emaile

===

Then what created your god? You have invalidated your own religion with that theory.

But ignoring that, out of the thousands of other creation myths that developed throughout human history, what makes the Christian one true? Why are the Mayans, Egyptians, Romans, and Greeks, and everybody else wrong?

Here is a list for your edification:

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Avatar for user 'Dive'

Dive | November 13, 2013 at 5:38 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

123emaile. Science uses the evidence of millions of fossils, geological records, and living organisms, each examined many times over by many different people at many different times in history, and applies logic and reasoning to try and form an idea of why things are the way they are. It may not be perfect but it's the best we have. What you have is a belief that's been drummed into your head from an early age that what's written in the Bible is literally true, can never be wrong, and should never be questioned. In reality the Bible is a highly distorted record of the mythology of some tribes of the eastern Mediterranean thousands of years ago. Some parts of it are historical material, while others are mythology that tries to to explain the world from their point of ignorance about the physical workings of the world, e.g. where did the world come from, where did people come from, what are rainbows, why do people speak different languages, what happens after we die, etc. The book itself hasn't been significantly updated since Gutenberg took its writing out of the hands of the clergy over 400 years ago. You have no evidence that the book is the word of God or that anything in it is in fact true. What you have is a dogmatic belief that what is written in the Bible is literally true, without evidence or proof, and without questioning the validity or otherwise of anything in it. If people like you ran everything we would not have computers, cars, aircraft, satellites, or any of the modern discoveries and inventions of science, because they are not written in your sadly outdated book.

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Avatar for user 'sdreefer21'

sdreefer21 | November 13, 2013 at 5:39 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

What will happen to god when the humans consume and destroy the planet. Then become extinct. Will insects be welcome in heaven too?

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 5:41 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Have no fear about what God will do to child molesters, murders, thieves, Hitler, rapists, or other criminals. You may want to fear what God is going to do to "All Liars"

The Law - Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

The Judgment - Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death"

If a man jumps out of a plane without a parachute, he will perish because he transgressed the law of gravity. Had he put on a parachute, he would have been saved. In one sense, he perished because he didn’t put on the parachute. But the primary reason he died was because he broke what has often been called “the law” of gravity.
If a sinner refuses to trust in Jesus Christ when he passes through the door of death, he will perish. This isn’t because he refused to trust the Savior, but because he transgressed the Law of God. Had he “put on the Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 13:14), he would have been saved; but because he refused to repent, he will suffer the full consequences of his sin. Sin is not “failing to believe in Jesus.” Sin is “transgression of the Law” (1 John 3:4).

If you believe in the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything (Sir Isaac Newton called atheism 'senseless and odious') and that life sprang from non-life…..then for you to speak on issues of science and violate it's essential laws is like playing checkers with a someone who changes the rules when he's losing. Why should I fret over your name calling or defenses for your beliefs when you cannot provide evidence for your unscientific belief that out of nothing, everything came? You say there is no Heaven. John Lennon wasn't sure. He said to pretend there's no Heaven….That's easy if you try. Then he said he hoped that someday we would join him. Such wishful thinking reveals John Lennon and your religious beliefs, but not good science. You can imagine all you want, but I lost my faith in atheism long ago and prefer to stay within the realm of reality and truth, and have faith in that Truth that has made me free from the law of sin and death.

God made you, God loves you, God has died for your sinfulness and wickedness, but you need to recognize you are falling out of the plane of sin, and the law of gravity is going to judge you, so you need to put on the Lord Jesus Christ, God, not as fire insurance, but in repentance to trusting yourself for forgiveness of sins and to go to heaven. You don’t need proof of heaven, you need to look at the proof of your sinfulness and repent unto God who died for your failure to be perfect. You pay, or He pays, your choice. John Lennon has already been judged due to his death already, you still have time.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 5:44 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Life appears abruptly and in complex forms in the fossil record,2 and gaps appear
systematically in the fossil record between various living kinds.3 These facts indicate
that basic kinds of plants and animals were created. The Second Law of Thermodynamics
states that things tend to go from order to disorder (entropy tends to increase)
unless added energy is directed by a conversion mechanism (such as photosynthesis),
whether a system is open or closed. Thus simple molecules and complex protein,
DNA, and RNA molecules seemingly could not have evolved spontaneously and
naturalistically into a living cell;4 such cells apparently were created. The laboratory
experiments related to theories on the origin of life have not even remotely approached
the synthesis of life from nonlife, and the extremely limited results have depended on
laboratory conditions that are artificially imposed and extremely improbable.5 The
extreme improbability of these conditions and the relatively insignificant results
apparently show that life did not emerge by the process that evolutionists postulate.

One example of the scientific evidence for creation is the sudden appearance
of complex fossilized life in the fossil record, and the systematic gaps
between fossilized kinds in that record. The most rational inference from
this evidence seemingly is that life was created and did not evolve.

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Avatar for user 'Dive'

Dive | November 13, 2013 at 5:45 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

So why did God have to let us kill his only son so he could forgive us for being the bad people he made us?

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 5:51 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

It's pride to think we know better than God. Just as it's prideful for a child to think they know better than their parent who is older and raising them. When you look at the complexity of the human anatomy, the fact that there are more stars than you can count, the fact that the Sun is aligned perfectly to give us life. You can trust the God who created that. Our moon ever year moves 4 inches away from our earth, it would be impossible based on that fact alone, that our earth is millions of years old. That is why they read Genesis 1 on the moon when they landed there in the 60's and proclaimed the name of Jesus Christ.

The earth's geologic features were fashioned largely by rapid, catastrophic processes that affected the earth on a global and regional scale (Catastrophism). Catastrophic events have characterized the earth's history. Huge floods, massive asteroid collisions, large volcanic eruptions, devastating landslides, and intense earthquakes have left their marks on the earth. Catastrophic events appear to explain the formation of mountain ranges, deposition of thick sequences of sedimentary rocks with fossils, initiation of the glacial age, and extinction of dinosaurs and other animals. Catastrophism (catastrophic changes), rather than uniformitarianism (gradual changes), appears to be the best interpretation of a major portion of the earth's geology. Geologic data reflect catastrophic flooding. Evidences of rapid catastrophic water deposition include fossilized tree trunks that penetrate numerous sedimentary layers (such as at Joggins, Nova Scotia), widespread pebble and boulder layers (such as the Shinarump Conglomerate of the southwestern United States), fossilized logs in a single layer covering extensive areas (such as Petrified Forest National Park), and whole closed clams that were buried alive in mass graveyards in extensive sedimentary layers (such as at Glen Rose, Texas). Uniform processes such as normal river sedimentation, small volcanoes, slow erosion, and small earthquakes appear insufficient to explain large portions of the geologic record. Even the conventional uniformitarian geologists are beginning to yield to evidences of rapid and catastrophic processes.

This is why sea fossils are found from Mt. Everest to Death Valley. 90% of fossils are sea life, indicating a global catastrophic flood. Land animals make up about 10% and they are all usually found in death piles mixed together because rapid moving flood waters and sediment (what you need to make fossils along with rapid quick burial). You may have never been on a fossil dig, but scientists try to brush this under the carpet, but it's true if you research it. T Rex's with other fossils that would not normally be together = Rapid flood burial on a global epic scale.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Only the Creator could die for His fallen creation. God in His sovereignty knew He would have to come and die one day. If you have a child, you would likely give your life to protect that child. Why? You helped birth and raise that child, you have a deep love for that child. God is a Father, Son, and Spirit or in the Hebrew "Elohim", so just as you are a body, soul and spirit, yet one, God is 3 but 1. He sent Himself in the form of the Son, who is the revealed form of God to man, as no one can see the Father until we are glorified. But we can know God through the Son. God gave His sinless life and blood for our redemption...what a God! Just like an amazing parent would save their child, God became a man, Immanuel (God with us [Hebrew]) and He was fully man and fully God and gave His sinless life for mine and for all the world. Amazing love! I can worship, love, serve, and honor a great God like that in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Remember, even our Universe, which is one is made out of three's showing God's imprint on it. The universe is made out of TIME, SPACE, MATTER. Of which Time is made up of three's with PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE. Space is made up of HEIGHT, DEPTH, WIDTH. Finally, Matter is made up of SOLID, LIQUID and GAS. It's all there, written in our heavens!

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

John 3
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You were created, made, designed with a purpose. It's up to you to believe. Ask yourself...Why am I here? What's my purpose? And what's the meaning of Life? Then search out God in the Lord Jesus Christ with an unbiased and non-prejudiced heart and you'll see it's clear as the Universe that nothing didn't create nothing, but a GREAT and AWESOME and POWERFUL and LOVING God died for the sins of the world and wants to know them personally and restore them to eternal life.

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Avatar for user 'blk'

blk | November 13, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

I am unsure the goal and mission of the museum council. If a museum founded to prove that a specific religion is true would qualify, then I would have to object to whatever public funding was associated with the museum council. Science will prove (or at least bring us closer) the truth with its only objective to find out what is in fact true. Any "science" named "creation science" can not be legitimate because if you start with the concussion, it is not interested in genuine inquiry.
I have noticed in the history of science vs religion controversies, 100% of the time, when all shook out, science was right. Even the creationists will concede "micro-evolution" because it is becoming impossible to ignore. What they fail to recognise is micro-evolution IS evolution. You just give it a lot of time.
I would be in favor of admitting a museum dedicated to explaining all creation myths, not just the Christian myth.

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Avatar for user 'sdreefer21'

sdreefer21 | November 13, 2013 at 6:11 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

Since homo habilis came before speech and advanced thought. How could he worship? He would not be welcome?

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Avatar for user 'jerzo'

jerzo | November 13, 2013 at 6:47 p.m. ― 10 months, 3 weeks ago

The argument that only godless humans accept the overwhelming evidence for the theory of evolution via natural selection is totally wrong. During the Dover Intelligent Design trial a few years back, ten thousand ministers of the gospel signed the "Clergy Letter Project" revealing their acceptance of the theory of evolution and its compatibility in their minds with their religious practice.

Ken Miller, a stout defender of evolution and science teaching in general, is a practicing Catholic. Miller teaches Biology at Brown University. He testified against the Intelligent Design Creationists at the Dover trial. Check out his book, "Finding Darwin's God. if you are interested in a scientific discussion of the evidence of evolution, and how accepting that theory can be compatible with Christianity I recommend his book.

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Avatar for user 'science'

science | November 13, 2013 at 7:03 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

123emaile: don't use arguments that creation.com says NOT to use. I see that you are of such a high degree of creatard that you aren't even aware your own "experts" disagree with you: http://creation.com/arguments-we-think-creationists-should-not-use

Question 1: Has any human ever observed creation ex-nihilo (versus ex-materia)?
Question 2: Did god create the universe ex-nihilo or ex-materia?

If your answer is "no" for #1 and "ex-nihilo" for #2, you have just proven that belief in god creating the universe "ex-nihilo" is unsupported by evidence, and as every rationalist knows, you don't believe things without evidence.

If it is possible for creation "ex-nihilo" to happen, no human has any evidence for what might cause "ex-nihilo" events. "A god did it" is only an unfalsifiable hypothesis, just like "magic did it" is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. The "God did it" argument, also more formally known as the "Cosmological Argument", is an argument that commits 2 logical fallacies:

1) Special pleading: the conclusion that god exists prior to the universe existing contradicts the premise that existence can't be caused ex-nihilo

2) Argument from ignorance: because no one has a more satisfactory answer for you, you assume that YOUR unsatisfactory answer is valid until proven false. If we are to argue this way, then we can justify almost anything, like the existence of fairies.

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Avatar for user 'Elmer_Gantry'

Elmer_Gantry | November 13, 2013 at 7:13 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Yabba Dabba Doo!

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 13, 2013 at 7:55 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

All religions and all superstitions are human-made. They are all fake. Claiming to know a "god" is claiming the impossible. The reason why they should reject this organization is because it's run by adults lying to children and adults. Christianity is a religious mythology. It's nonsense, wishful thinking and self-delusion.

Christianity is also a hatred of humanity club. The human race is the top species on our planet. Sin is a human-made concept, sin is simply not real--people do good and bad things but there is no such thing as sin. If you believe in sin, you are claiming there is something wrong with being born a human being. Unless what? I join the hatred of humanity cult of Christianity.

The reason why religion and superstitions are not good for society is they are not explaining the true nature of the world around us. Another reason why religion is not good for any society is it allows normally moral people to think or act in immoral ways and claim they are being moral.

Science is our best method to explain the world around us and is our best method to keep from fooling ourselves. It's time for all thinking people to leave the Bronze Age and enter into the Scientific Age.

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 13, 2013 at 8:03 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

mu·se·um
myo͞oˈzēəm/
noun
1.
a building in which objects of historical, scientific, artistic, or cultural interest are stored and exhibited.

According to the current evolved language on google , it sounds like the Creation Museum meets the criteria to be a legitimate museum but how would anyone really know because we're still evolving the definition, right?

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Avatar for user 'Johno1'

Johno1 | November 13, 2013 at 8:06 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

It does appear the Museum Council has some bias's of their own. Only 8 out of the 39 council members bothered to visit the museum before voting. Wouldn't scientific inquiry draw one to expose oneself to other interpretations of data before making a decision? Peer pressure has no place in science.

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Avatar for user 'DinVT'

DinVT | November 13, 2013 at 8:27 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Wow, somebody on this thread needs a job, a hobby, or a clue. Let's go with clue! Oh, and remedial 3rd grade. Anyone want to guess who?

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Avatar for user 'btvanover'

btvanover | November 13, 2013 at 8:32 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Seriously you guys, quit wasting your breath on this obvious troll. Someone who makes responses like these and ignores valid arguments is obviously doing so on purpose.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 8:45 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

I didn't just copy off a bunch of websites, however, there is nothing new under the sun for Creationism and Atheism, both have arguments, but one is validated. Yet, you still have no proof of evolution. The oldest historical source is the Bible, and yet 3,500 years ago was penned that the Bible supports micro evolution or adaptation after its own kind. There are hundreds of science facts, thousands of years before they were even able to be provable and all on record historically. It's sad that you fail to look at the argument on the other side of the fence. I too was endoctrinated in public schools and college universities with lies perpetuated by sinful man desired to try to erase God out of history, science, and the classroom. History shows otherwise, but the generation of the past 40 years has been severely lied to. If you are so unbiased or unprejudiced, why do you stop by the museum before you judge the museum without knowledge.

Again, you can not look at the evidence, but you'll only seal your own fate as you stand before the Creator of the Universe and having rejected His only begotten Son (God Himself in human flesh) it will be the only sin God can not forgive. Christians are saved by Grace. Mormon's, Jehovah Witness, Catholics, and any other religion that believes in doing something to earn their salvation through their own righteousness, or believing in Jesus plus good works, or Jesus plus anything, that faith is corrupt and is not true Biblical Christian.

Evolution disagrees completely with the first and second law of thermodynamics. Thus nothing can create nothing. It's that simple. I am not calling you names or degrading you or your position, I am telling you to repent or perish with you current close minded and prejudiced position. Set it aside and stop bashing Creation Science and the Bible without studying it out. They don't reach you the truth anymore because God hating men and woman have tried to subversively remove God from the Declaration of Independence, the pledge of Allegiance, the classroom, and in science. But the Bible predicted that.

Just as they scoffed and rejected truth in Noah's day, and not we are left with Billions of fossils of sea life and 10% of them land life. Fossils are a testament of God's judgment of man and failure to repent. The global flood is seen in what happened in 1 day at Mt. St Helens, the Grand Canyon, and all the way to Mt. Everest. Don't keep buying the evolutionary lie you were fed in school like I was. I have 5 degrees and I have studied both sides, and since I don't want to hang onto my sin, I can open my heart to God and the real testable, observable and proven truth.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 8:53 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Prejudice against God and the Lord Jesus Christ is all this is about. No Biblical Christian is for evolution as it would disagree with the Biblical account. Someone who agrees with Evolution is not a Bible believing Christian. No one on here has provided one ounce of evidence for macro evolution that is not a theory and hypothesis. Why? Because there is none! It's that simple. Call me or any Bible believing Christian what you want behind your computer, but the fact remains you have zero evidence of nothing creating nothing. Your conscious convicts you of sin and wrong with guilt, a God given design, and just looking at a tree, mountain, ocean, stars, clouds, sunset or sunrise stirs up something inside you that SCREAMS there is a God, but you chose to accept unproven, fact less, no-evidence theories and hypothesis from godless and god hating men and women who want to live a life without God, and they want to drag you and your position straight to the pit of Hell. God is pleading with you with His creation to repent and turn to Him, study the pre-1960's books that haven't been re-written by these atheistic secular and sinful men and women. It's a cover up that will be exposed upon death and the last breath, or at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ for His own.

www.EvolutionVsGod.com

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Mike West....Sorry you have had bad exposure to false, fake, or foolish religions. The God of the Bible is not about religions, but a relationship with Him. It is now made possible through the Lord Jesus Christ, the same person that history is timetabled off of, the same God that our government was formed off of (despite what your god-hating history teacher in modern times has told you and hid, history shows otherwise).

I think you should check out www.Geniusthemovie.com I think it would expose the dark and unregernate heart of sinful man through the historical record of the Beatles and life of John Lennon.

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Avatar for user 'politicalsanity'

politicalsanity | November 13, 2013 at 9:37 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

If we're to believe in the Christian myth of creation, WHICH sect do we believe to be accurate?

If we're to believe in the actual form of creation, which religion's version should we believe--and what makes that version more accurate than any other?

Should we examine ALL of the religions, and see not only where accounts mesh, but also where they differ, to try to give some meaning to what actually happened? To provide context for the various holy texts?

Or should we blindly accept one text that has already been proven to be wildly inaccurate as THE real religion?

(Example-- look at the story of Jonah and the whale. We know, given modern science, that there would be no possible way for Jonah to survive in the belly of a whale for an extended period of time and come out whole.)

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Avatar for user 'Peking_Duck_SD'

Peking_Duck_SD | November 13, 2013 at 9:41 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Art takes many forms, and I'm not one to judge what someone else considers art.

Religion has produced some of the world's great art which, as an agnostic who believes in the possibility of a form beyond the known but doesn't subscribe to organized religion, can appreciate despite the fact I fundamentally disagree with the beliefs of those who created it.

And if not meant to be an art museum but rather and anthropological look at societies, creationists are an element of society regardless of whether one agrees with them or not. I can see a creationist exhibit being displayed in an objective forum where various aspects of a time period or theme of which they are a part are presented.

With that said, what these people are pushing here seems to be less a museum and more a recruiting church trying to pose as a museum in order to get the benefits.

I think the museum council came to the correct conclusion in this case.

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Avatar for user 'SethW00t'

SethW00t | November 13, 2013 at 9:56 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm gonna go ahead and side with the scientists. Religion is religion, and that museum only appeals to Christians, and a small portion of them at that. Only about half of them actually believe this literalistic stuff(talking snakes; really?!?), and they're trying to spread their religion under the pretense of being a 'museum' when in reality they have no evidence for anything. It's more like an amusement park full of literalist Christian propoganda.

....sounds like bunches o fun to me. :|

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Avatar for user 'Higgypiggy'

Higgypiggy | November 13, 2013 at 10:12 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

So it's safe to assume that people truly believe that humans walked with the dinosaurs??

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Avatar for user 'BehScience'

BehScience | November 13, 2013 at 10:13 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

A lesson to SDforward, jerzo, De La Rick, and Johnny Ballgame I am asking for a response. All you do is name calling, isn't everyone here too old for that?

You say creation is a lie, you say evolution is true. Then prove it or be quiet. My first education came from the gang infested streets of East Los Angeles. In the streets I had to prove my case or shut up. In minutes with no time for nonsense I explained my point of view and usually defended it with gang violence.

After I left the streets I cleaned up and went to school. Naturally went to the public education system. I learned the sciences I needed to earn an Associate of Science, then a BA, and then a MA. I went to the community colleges in San Diego. Not one professor could show me that evolution was true. I asked for facts, they gave me theories! What I learned in writing papers is the same rule. Prove your point or shut up.

NOT ONE SO-CALLED SCIENTIST can prove evolution to be true, not one. This is why evolution is still called a theory.
If evolution is not a theory then show me the academic journal that proves evolution to be factual. The journal will have a principal investigator, fellow researchers, maybe an editor, and the date published, and the cold facts. I speak with confidence because as of today's date there is no such data.
Lets talk about all the SCIENTISTS with PhD from Ivy League schools that are Christian believers! As of todays date SDforward, jerzo, De La Rick, and Johnny Ballgame have failed to offer solid proof.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 10:26 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Religion never saves anyone, it's a relationship restored with God. We are all sinners, we have all sinned, it was passed down from Adam to all of us. That is why children never have to be taught to lie, cheat, steal, hit, hurt, or manipulate others. That is evidence alone that the Bible is true. You never have to sit down with a child and say, "Son, this is how you tell a lie." That's because the snake, Satan, is the father of lies and we all have his seed in our nature from the fall of Adam in the garden.

God came to earth, was born of a woman, and the Spirit of God, and still loved his fallen creation and people so much that He came to die and redeem us because we can't even make it a day without thinking a sinful, lustful, or wicked thought of selfishness or something against a neighbor, coworker, or stranger.

Every religion, no matter then name is false, IF it teaches DOING something to earn your way into heaven or find God, or DOING good works to obtain or earn eternal life, or accepting Jesus and then detracting or adding something to that.

Redemption is DONE! Jesus Christ as God in human flesh did it all. We just recognize our lost condition, having lied, and done wrong, and we accept God's Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He did for us on the cross. Every religious leader is dead and in a marked grave. Jesus proved He was and is God by rising again and defeating death through His sacrifice, blood, and life.

Titus 3
[4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
[7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Every religion is false that tells you that you have to earn it, do something, or believe something that is not biblical. It is Christ alone, by His grace, what God did, and that is why those that put their trust and confess it will worship Him now on earth and in heaven because of what He did.

Matthew 10
[32] Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[33] But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 10:34 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

The lesson to be learned from no humans in the fossil record is that God means business. When he says he is going to wipe man off the face of the earth because of their sin and wickedness. He means it!

Genesis 6
[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
[8] But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

It's foolish to take a position that has no evidence, is only theories and hypothesis, and expect to win against the God who inhabits eternity, has the universe in His hand, and is the One that gave you life. That is the most foolish thing you could ever do. Call all the names you want, you don't have any evidence to stand on.

<p>www.EvolutionVsGod.com

You still have time to repent before it's too late. Tomorrow could not come for you past tonight.

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Avatar for user 'politicalsanity'

politicalsanity | November 13, 2013 at 10:45 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Ummmm... for the record, and to correct the misinformation-- America was NOT founded off of the Christian religion. The principles that are the cornerstone of our government were derived from the Greeks and Romans, NOT from the Jews or Christianity. They also come from English Common Law, which predates the spread of Christianity in England.

In fact, it could be argued that Christianity is anti-American. The 1st Commandment is prohibited by the 1st Amendment.

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Avatar for user 'corhen'

corhen | November 13, 2013 at 11:05 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

nice to see the museum council has some common sense. a "museum" based on no science, and is infact based upon the opposite of science.

the creationist myths puts the horse in front of the cart. it doesn't say "what does the evidence say" but instead "what can we force the evidence to say"

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Avatar for user 'chelle4jc'

chelle4jc | November 13, 2013 at 11:18 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

So disappointing. The people who subscribe to the religion of evolution find the science supporting creation an affront to their willful ignorance. It appalls me that museums that propagate the theories and hypotheses of evolution are deemed accredited while ignoring museums who HAVE to go above and beyond reproach to exhibit the facts of creationism and a young earth. Only 8 of the members visited the museum and the reasons given for a no vote are entirely bogus. The 8 visitors had nothing but praise and admiration for the museum.
On a side note, it's sadly entertaining to read the comments of the nay-sayers here regarding 'science' when they are doing nothing more than spewing the doctrine of evolution they've been taught. Challenge: do some research of your own regarding SCIENCE .... the proof really IS in the science. Evolution is laughable from a scientific perspective.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 11:23 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Have you look outside your teachers that have tried to erase God from our nation. soon they will try to take Him off the money too. But simply read the first words of the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 13, 2013 at 11:26 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

The Christian Origins of Yale University
Pastors chartered Yale in 1745, and the Word of God was preeminent during Yale’s early years. Consider, for example, these two early regulations for Yale students:

1.“All scholars shall live religious, godly, and blameless lives according to the rules of God’s Word, diligently reading the Holy Scriptures, the fountain of light and truth; and constantly attend upon all the duties of religion, both in public and secret.

2.“If any scholar shall deny the Holy Scriptures or any part of them to be the Word of God, or be guilty of heresy or any error directly tending to subvert the fundamentals of Christianity, and continuing obstinate therein after the first and second admonition, he shall be expelled.”

A severe penalty was imposed on these early Yale students for denying the faith. Over the years, spiritual commitment even at Yale began to decline. One of Yale’s greatest presidents was a Godly man named Timothy Dwight, a grandson of Jonathan Edwards who had been a key figure in America’s first Great Awakening just before the Revolutionary War. President Dwight helped to spark a spiritual revival on Yale’s campus nearly a century after its founding. Many students accepted Jesus Christ, and a large percentage of them entered the ministry.

Yale’s commitment to Biblical education began to wane even more over the next century, and by the early 1950s, Yale had lost its Christian distinctive entirely. Nevertheless, Yale remained one of a few key colleges and universities that continued to educate and produce America’s top political, educational, and financial leaders.

Today the Biblical foundations of America’s most prominent universities have been entirely eroded causing them to move to a secular standpoint. Many of our nation’s top colleges and universities now have a growing hostility toward Christians particularly those who take their Biblical faith seriously. Why? There is a Devil and powers and principalities influencing hatred towards Christians who have established this nation and have supported this nation and world through America. Secular Atheists who are godless are empowered by this spirit of name calling, hatred, and destruction of faith in God.

If they would only wake up to the fact that their arms are too short to box with the God of the Universe!

No one from an evolutionary point of view has yet to offer any scientific proof of Evolution. Thus it's all a hoax, lie, and atheists are marching off with it like the Nazi youth marched off to the beat of Hitler's drum in the 1930's pre WWII. But God had other plans to destroy Hitler's plans. Wake up, you've been lied to.

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Avatar for user 'Miss_H'

Miss_H | November 13, 2013 at 11:37 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Well, let's be honest, this isn't a "museum" at all. It's a monument to scientific ignorance. There is no debate in the scientific community about the validity of evolution. (Well there are a few cranks, but if they had any actual evidence to refute evolution, they could publish it and go pick up their Nobel Prize. They don't.) If people want to believe the earth is 6,000 years old based on their religion, they're perfectly welcome to do so. And they can drag their children there and tell them it's the truth too. No one needs to understand evolution to end up with a job at Dairy Queen. But they don't get to promote it on the public dime as a museum when it's really just a religious theme park.

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Avatar for user 'politicalsanity'

politicalsanity | November 13, 2013 at 11:48 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

America was founded to have a secular form of government specifically because of the abuses incurred by the theocratic governments of the Colonies.

The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.

If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

And regarding the Declaration of Independence-- The Declaration of Independence

Many Christians who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration as "proof." The reason appears obvious: the document mentions God. However, the God in the Declaration does *not* describe Christianity's God. It describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.

More significantly, the Declaration does not represent the law of the land as it came before the Constitution. The Declaration aimed at announcing their separation from Great Britain and listed the various grievances with the "thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold, and we have more than thirteen states. Today, the Declaration represents an important historical document about rebellious intentions against Great Britain at a time before the formation of our independent government. Although the Declaration may have influential power, it may inspire the lofty thoughts of poets, and judges may mention it in their summations, it holds no legal power today. Our presidents, judges and policemen must take an oath to uphold the Constitution, but never to the Declaration of Independence.

Of course the Declaration depicts a great political document, as it aimed at a future government upheld by citizens instead of a religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all come inborn with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." The Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity, nor does it imply *anything* about a Christian foundation.

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Avatar for user 'politicalsanity'

politicalsanity | November 14, 2013 at 12:01 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Regarding this from 123Emaile:

"Have you look outside your teachers that have tried to erase God from our nation. soon they will try to take Him off the money too."

He wasn't ON our money prior to 1864. The phrase "In God We Trust" was added to the 2 cent coin in 1864, as a way to help join the two sides of the Civil War back together.

It was added to paper currency in 1956. The nation was at a particularly tense time in the Cold War, and the United States wanted to distinguish itself from the Soviet Union, which promoted state atheism.

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Avatar for user 'JMElmore'

JMElmore | November 14, 2013 at 4 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

And the lord condoned ccassional misbehavior!
"I solemnly swear that I am up to no good." [Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban]

The lord forbids belief in reincarnation...
"Hey! My eyes aren't 'glistening with the ghosts of my past'!" [Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire]

to live as the lord lives is to become like the lord!
"Every great wizard in history has started out as nothing more than what we are now, students. If they can do it, why not us?" [Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix]

The duality of good and evil exits even in the lord!
"I just feel so... angry, all the time., and what if after everything I've been through, something's gone wrong inside me. What if I'm becoming bad?" [Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix]

apparently all you need is a book to quote from for something to be 'true', and I've got 8 of them, that makes my truth more truthier than your truth!

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 14, 2013 at 7:12 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

All religions and superstitions are human-made. Claiming to know a "god" is claiming the impossible. Why do they call belief, belief? Because it's not knowledge. If I make the outrageous claim that "I am a banana," does this make me a banana? No. No amount of belief makes something a fact.

"But I wouldn't want to live in a world where I did not believe I'm a banana. I feel at peace because I believe I'm a banana. My life has completely changed because I believe I'm a banana. There is more meaning to my life because I believe that I'm a banana. You can have this same belief too, how? Just believe."

Now, change the word, "banana" to any "god" of your choice. Use "Elvis" in place of "banana". People who believe that Elvis is their "god" are laughed at. Which is why anyone with an invisible friend is laughed at. When are people going to grow up and stop believing in an invisible friend(s), god(s).

Christian think: "I have a personal relationship with an invisible sky daddy and you are not allowed to criticize me for having a relationship with an invisible friend. You are offending me and my invisible friend because I "believe" I have an invisible friend. I demand respect for this because because it's the only way I can get it."

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Avatar for user 'AndySantee'

AndySantee | November 14, 2013 at 9:09 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

123emaile: You seem very upset. I am teacher of Evolution. When people say "There is no proof of evolution" I don't hear ignorance, I don't think you are an idiot. I think you do not know what the term means however. Your one sided statement tells me that no matter what I say, you will never accept the actual facts, which not only prove that species change over time, and that we all are descended from a common ancestor, but also that this process is ongoing, and can be replicated in laboratory settings, and is ever single day, in San Diego. The initial proof of evolution was laid out in The Origin of Species (the first edition is the best), and as been subsequently validated by every study and experiment since. Evolution is one of the most scientifically solid facts humans have ever discovered.

How much proof is enough for you? My guess is it doesn't matter, since all of your comments are so angry and one sided. Please do not attack the people working to understand how life works. We have nothing to do with your beliefs. We simply are on a quest to understand life, in in so doing, understand how God works. To understand how He has worked through the ages, to create us from nothing... that is the goal of studying evolution. It is not in contradiction to the Bible in anyway, it is simply in addition to it.

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Avatar for user 'DaleTop'

DaleTop | November 14, 2013 at 9:28 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

It is outrageous that nineteen people voted to allow this freak show into the guild of legitimate museums. I am all for tolerance and giving people the right to express their opinion, no matter how foolish it makes them appear. However at some point we must support standards, that don't allow things that make mockery of science (and rational thought) into the realm of science. To even consider allowing this absurd collection of ignorance to be included by the city, as a legitimate museum, defies all forms of rational judgement.

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Avatar for user 'TTupta'

TTupta | November 14, 2013 at 9:45 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Refusing the Creation Museum Membership shows a complete closed mindedness. Museums are supposed to envoke study & contemplation on all sorts of history & ideas. Some works people agree with & essentially "get", some are often considered vial or evil, others are simply what the artist sees & no one understands. All should be allowed so people are free to see all expressions or beliefs. Everyone should be able to have a place in this Country & we should have access to all forms of museums. If you don't agree with a particular kind of museum - DON'T GO - but allow ALL to participate.

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 14, 2013 at 9:51 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

tol·er·ance
/ˈtäl(ə)rəns/
noun
noun: tolerance

1. the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.

Don't bring up the word if you don't know what it means. Nevermind it's still evolving its meaning, right?

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Avatar for user 'Zophir'

Zophir | November 14, 2013 at 10:13 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

First off, Kudos to KPBS and its readers for being able to have this discussion in a, mostly, civilized fashion without resorting to Youtube-like flaming.

I wanted to point out a few things to 123email:

1. A man jumping out of an airplane without a parachute does not "break" the law of gravity. To refresh your memory, here's what you said:

"If a man jumps out of a plane without a parachute, he will perish because he transgressed the law of gravity. Had he put on a parachute, he would have been saved. In one sense, he perished because he didn’t put on the parachute. But the primary reason he died was because he broke what has often been called “the law” of gravity.
If a sinner refuses to trust in Jesus Christ when he passes through the door of death, he will perish. "

The man did not "transgress" the law of gravity. If anything, he obeyed it to his death. Falling out of the airplane, and speeding towards the ground, is what the law of gravity says will happen. For him to "break" the law of gravity, he would need to jump out, then float away somewhere. Regardless, the "law" of gravity is not something you can break. It's a simple concept of physics that exists independently and affects you regardless of what you do.

2. Macro-evolution is micro-evolution over a very long period of time. Evolution doesn't say that a dog suddenly becomes an elephant (perhaps woolly mammoths are the missing link?). Instead, dogs and elephants evolved, over thousands to millions of years, from a common ancestor through endless series of micro-evolution and natural selection.

The reason macro-evolution can't be proven is that it takes thousands to millions of years to occur. No one would be alive long enough to run such an experiment. Humans haven't even been around long enough. This is why micro-evolution is proof of macro-evolution. An analogy would be a clock. Macro-evolution is akin to the hour hand moving forward, with micro-evolution being the second hand. Just because you don't hang around for enough time to see the hour hand move, doesn't mean that the hour hand isn't moving.

3. You continue to avoid responding as to why only the Christian creation myth is valid, as opposed to the many other creation myths in the world. The Bible is not the oldest document in the world. Other religions have existed long before Christianity came about. Why then is Christian-based creationism the only correct viewpoint?

I agree with blk that I would be fine with this museum if it were a creationism museum showcasing ALL creationism myths, as opposed to espousing just a singular, Christian viewpoint. I have nothing against creationism, people should be allowed to believe what they want to believe. But I do not agree that public funds should go towards espousing a singular religious belief.

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Avatar for user 'OkinSama'

OkinSama | November 14, 2013 at 11:15 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Dear Christians/Creationists/whatever, you're not being oppressed or denied any freedoms. Not being allowed to spread bs as fact, is not the same thing as oppression! You devalue real examples of oppression by using that excuse. Freedom of religion does not include a right to push it on others, religious ideas cannot be taught as fact to people who may not be in your same religion!
Creationism being told as if it is a legitimate "factual" alternative to Evolution is a bunch of LIES made up less than 2 decades ago! It should never leave the realm of church discussions. Certainly not in schools, or as an educational museum.
Just because some of you can't accept the easy-to-understand scientific FACT that evolution is the natural process through which we and all other lifeforms became what they are today, and aren't being allowed to make up your own bs and sell it as fact, is NOT THE SAME THING AS BEING OPPRESSED!

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Avatar for user '4truth'

4truth | November 14, 2013 at 11:17 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

It's wrong to deny the creation museum membership! I agree with Tom Cantor 100%, it is a prejudiced opinion against those who believe in the creator of the heavens and the earth & against God Himself. The ungodly are haters against anything good, righteous or godly because it puts a spotlight on their own wickedness & they don't want to look at themselves & they don't want others to see anything good, righteous or godly because others might come to the knowledge of the truth. I say Christians, invite your family, friends & acquaintances to the creation museum & let them see how wonderful it is, then put pressure on the museum council to change it's mind to include the creation museum in the membership. We shouldn't take a back seat on this unfair prejudiced issue!!

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 14, 2013 at 11:51 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Zophir....I have responded. The Evolution lie/myth is blindly accepted by society because it has been touted in public education the past 30 years with ferocity and rejection of God by teachers scared to lose their jobs if they mention Creationism or God in the government classroom. Hitler did the same. thing. Abraham Lincoln said it best "The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next." Liberalism has dominated this Hitler/Iatola Komani/Kim Jong Il mentality of communistic cultural conversion through the classroom. Since I know there is NO ZERO ZIPPO NADA evidence for Macro Evolution, and I can go out to the Borrego Desert and see stratification of mountains, plates, and see hundreds of thousands of fossils from the ocean, I can clearly see by the evidence that a worldwide global flood took place. I can drive up the 67 and see castastrophism in the mountains of Ramona with massive boulders that were placed there by water so strong that it SCREAMS out global flood, because it wasn't erosion that put them there, it was water so powerful and massive that only a global flood could cause that. The evidence is overwhelming and I challenge you to study Creationism (Outside Atheist websites and government classrooms), come to the museum with an unprejudiced heart and mind, and look at the argument. It's just sad that Atheists make up their mind before looking at the conclusive evidence. Many Atheists (a small population) just want to bash it and ignore it, and accept what they were taught. WHY? Because it leads them to a conclusion (with no evidence) that there is no God (they are self-deceived), and with that belief they feel they can do whatever they want with no accountability until the last day of their dying breath be it today or at 75. Yet, their conscious convicting them tells them that there is a God, the Creation surrounding us tells us there is a God, and semantics and name calling and touting no evidence of macro evolution will never help a lost and dying mine after his last breath.

We care about you, want to expose the lie you were educated falsely with that you have not studied without teacher bias and educational bias. But many Atheists find it difficult to give up what they have held onto for so long. It would involve a lost of pride and humility to study out the truth of God in Creation Science, and so many curse it off, joke it off, and laugh it off, but as that last last breath of life expires they will eternally regret being so biased and prejudiced against looking at a balanced and logical argument for both sides. Both sides have logical arguments, but one side's evidence matches Science, matches the historically accurate Bible, and matches the conscience conviction.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 14, 2013 at 11:51 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

PS. I have studied both sides in the public schools, college, and post graduate universities...and it's easy to see the evidence, but for an atheist or really an agnostic, it's hard of give up self, sin, and satanic influence of a lie that keeps a person in bondage and from moving towards God....but everyone has a freewill choice to believe or not believe God, the Bible, Science, and the Truth.

www.EvolutionVsGod.com

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 14, 2013 at 11:52 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Andy Santee....You have not one evidence of Macro Evolution. If you read past posts. There is clearly in the Bible and observable today Micro Evolution or Adaptation. But Zero evidence of Macro Evolution, so if you are teaching there is, you are falsely teaching Evolution and disagreeing with your peer group that we have on film now.

www.EvolutionVsGod.com

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Avatar for user 'Zophir'

Zophir | November 14, 2013 at 12:52 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

123 emaile-

I'm not sure if you understood my question. Your response doesn't address what I was asking about. I'm not asking you about proof of creationism or why people support evolution. Other people have been handling that side of the discussion. I am asking you why you are promoting exclusively the Christian creationism myth/theory/whatever you want to call it, while disregarding and failing to consider the other creationism myths in the world. If we were to agree that creationism is the truth (for argument's sake, I myself don't support creationism), why is it that only the Christian creationism you are espousing is the truth? If your answer is that Christianity is the one true religion, then that's a whole different issue on which we will not see eye to eye.

I don't see how liberalism, or education, or atheism has anything to do with my question. For the record, I'm not an atheist, not that it matters. My religious beliefs are my own business. Not supporting creationism doesn't mean you are an atheist. As it's been pointed out before, several prominent supporters of evolution have been religious, and predominantly Christian at that. The world is not a stark duality with evolution supporters being atheists and creationism supporters being Christian. There are vast degrees of gradation and nuance.

I appreciate that you care enough to keep supporting your position, however your failure to recognize degrees of gradation and nuance, as well as your use of logical fallacies and categorical dismissal of contrary opinions (as pointed out by others), serves more to undercut your credibility than provide compelling argument in support of creationism.

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Avatar for user 'Dive'

Dive | November 14, 2013 at 1:20 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

That's what I asked too Zophir, what makes these people think the Christian creation myth is more valid than all the others in the world past and present. That was yesterday, but 123emaile avoided it and continued prattling on. It's clear they can't answer it. They've had this stuff drummed into them from birth and their brain is hard wired with it. You can fix it. Madness, by it's very definition, defies rationalization. I'm surprised people are still discussing it. It's like banging your head against a brick wall, it feels good when you stop.

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 14, 2013 at 1:54 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Zophir and Dive....I won't use verbose language to sway my cause or compel you. I will use raw truth and facts, but somehow that never seems good enough for scoffers and doubters, in that what I give as Scientific Method truth or even conscience truth, you continue to reject as not good enough by your standards.

I do believe, by knowledge, reason, logic, and most of all faith, that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator of this amazing and intricate universe to which is so complicated, that no other explanation or conclusion by science, reason, or logic would conclude that the vast universe we live in was created by any other. I have studied in depth, both sides, I am not lopsided in my studies of either position. I have unbiasedly sought for truth of science and God and found it in the God of the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ, I by faith (believing without seeing) have trusted for the forgiveness of my sin and wrong against a holy, righteous, and saving God who came to earth to redeem His fallen creation, gave His life for mine and the rest of the world (John 3:16) and he has changed my heart and desires, and millions of others.

Based on the scientific evidence, based on faith, I can not hold or adhere to any other position or myths, and I have considered all positions, but they have no the evidence to show it. They are theories/hypothesis with no scientific data to support them, just thoughts.

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123emaile | November 14, 2013 at 2 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

If I didn't search out the truth of both positions, and held to what I was taught wrongly in public school, then I would obviously side like you all with evolution, but I have studied it out. The #1 evidence we didn't evolve is our conscience conviction of sin, how we are born bad, how we have guilt, how we are not taught how to do evil things yet do wrong, and how we have conviction that we need to do moral things innately shows we were designed and not happen chance. It matches the Bible's account. That is proof enough and evidence alone, but there is way more, the science that shows a young earth, a fossil record that matches perfectly with the Bible and preserved before all the science came out, and hundreds of fulfilled prophecies written thousands and hundreds of years apart that show the Bible is 100% true, accurate, and something we can put our faith in. Not to mention the founding of our country and choosing the God of the Bible to be this nations God, and we have been the most blessed nation that ever existed in history. Science continues to change its position, for example pre-1980's students were told by evolution scientists that it took millions of years to make a fossil. (check old science books). Then Mount St. Helen's erupted and shows us that under the right set of catastrophic conditions that fossils could be made in a day based on the right set of conditions and circumstances. Study it out. Fossils can be created under the right set of circumstances and not millions and billions of years as we were first told. So they scramble and have re-written text books hundreds and hundreds of times.

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123emaile | November 14, 2013 at 2 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

It's all there. If you are looking for a religion, you have one. One that self justifies itself and you are the ultimate authority in your life. But I have a personal relationship with God, and millions of others do too who have trusted him. Sound doctrinal churches aren't perfect, because sinners saved by God's grace are still in them, but Bible believing Christians in our nation have historically done much for the poor, needy, the abused, homeless, families, and much good by God. I don't see any atheist organizations or agnostic doing the same, yet they bag on Christians. There are many false Christian faiths that don't match the Bible, just like Judas' faith. But you don't see Biblical Christ followers threatening, vandalizing, cursing, and going off on atheists. Why? Because we know how deceived you are in your own pride, but we know that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance before their pride rejects the God who made the universe. You think it just happened by millions and billions of years and chances....think again...scientific fact...nothing can create something...you need something and a creator...or you need something beyond you.

That is what is so great, that there is an awesome Creator God that designed and made my heart, complex immune system, digestive system, the ability to create life between a man and a woman only, the perfection of a mother's womb, and the evidence that we all sin, we all die, and the Good News that God came to solve the issue of sin and death for His fallen and lost Creation. What hope beyond the grave. If I was an atheist, I would be on anti-depressants for hopelessness.

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Avatar for user 'DWfromLA'

DWfromLA | November 14, 2013 at 2:06 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

I agree with the comments that if the museum want's to be included then the museum should represent all creation stories.. After all, as the museum sits on Kumeyaay land, I think it only fair to allow the first story be the Kumeyaay Creation story ..
http://www.kumeyaay.com/kumeyaay-history.html?id=80:kumeyaay-creation-story&catid=1

After all, as Vine Deloria Jr. once said, "on this land, God is Red".

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123emaile | November 14, 2013 at 3:02 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Other museums don't represent both sides, but the Creation and Earth Museum does present both sides, but not 50/50, The other museums present it 100/0 generally.

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Avatar for user 'politicalsanity'

politicalsanity | November 14, 2013 at 3:59 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

I really don't know how to respond to some of what 123emaile had posted regarding evidence of a global flood (I assume he's talking about Noah's flood.)

The 'evidence' of the boulders on the hilltops heading out to Ramona aren't related to floods. It's more tectonic shifts, localized flooding (flash floods) and erosion by wind and water. If you stop and actually look at some boulders that are grouped together, you can see where they broke apart... and if you dig down a bit, you'll see another layer of rocks and stone that is whole-- unaffected by surface erosion.

As far as the fossilization in the Borrego desert-- that again isn't evidence of a global flood. It's evidence of shifting tectonic plates, so that rivers and lakes dry up. Most of California was undersea at some point-- but we've had a lot of earthquakes over the last few eons.

One thing to consider about a 'global flood'-- if in fact we had one, every bit of vegetation that would be dependent on sunlight would have died. Every insect that depends on those plants would have died. And the air itself would have been so saturated with carbon dioxide, nitrogen and methane-- NOTHING could have survived.

The fact that we did survive is evidence enough that any floods were localized.

We didn't have a global flood, PERIOD.

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MarkRoberts | November 14, 2013 at 4:13 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

I am outraged that a museum of irrationality has not been approved for San Diego! How are our children to learn to make rational, intelligent, evidence-based decisions about important matters if they don't know how irrational, faith-based people see the world?

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Transformed | November 14, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Interesting creation article on the Kumeyaay DWfromLA . Honestly, it sounds like a global flood account. Did you know their are over 200 cultures in the world that share a similar flood story? Check it out http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends I think it would be great if the Creation Museum included this information as well, to demonstrate that our local Native Americans shared in passing down history on the biblical account of Noah's flood.

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Transformed | November 14, 2013 at 9:32 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago


Dear PoliticalInsanity , please explain the geology of planet Mars which does not have one drop of water and is believed to have had a global flood in comparison to the earth which is covered over 70% by water and according to your observation did not have a global flood .

Creationist have been screaming for years that the grand canyon was formed by a global flood but conventional science believes an instant grand canyon on Mars was carved by flood? http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/solar-system/mars-article/

Incidently a global flood would explain why there are millions of dead things buried and fossilized all over the earth not to mention layers of sedimentary rocks, that much force of water would create many layers very rapidly, explaining why people think the earth is billions of years old.

The biblical account makes a valid reasonable argument PERIOD.

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 14, 2013 at 10:17 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

The Creation & Earth History Museum represents the view of 78% Americans according to the 2012 Gallup poll regarding the origins of life. Please do not feel threatened that most Americans believe that God created and are in sync with the creation museums teachings.

1.) 46% of Americans believe God created humans in their present form

2.) 32% of Americans believe humans evolved with God guiding

3.) 15% of Americans believe that humans evolved and God had no part in the process

Click below to see voting results

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 3:35 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

To Transformed: People used to think the earth was flat but happened? They were all wrong.

Evolution, among scientists, is the most solid scientific theory we have. Among the non-educated, evolution is fake. Gravity, among scientists, is the most hotly disputed scientific theory we have. Among the non-educated, gravity is a extremely solid scientific theory, yet the non-educated are not jumping off roofs or cliffs.

The sad part about the non-educated is they don't even know what a scientific theory is and don't want to know. Many will shout out they are proud they don't know anything about science.

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Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 3:52 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

All religions and all superstitions are failed sciences. Religions and/or superstitions do not explain the world around us. Which is why religions and superstitions are harmful to a progressive, forward moving and healthy society--they are misrepresenting the world around us and are fake. Science explains the world around us--from how we got here, our purpose, to morals and ethics, and more.

People of education, reason and rationality laugh at everyone duped by the mythology of our ancient ignorant ancestors. It's sad there are so many non-educated people in the Scientific Age but there is no law saying people need to think critically, be able to think for themselves and not be pathetic sheep.

What do Christians have to offer? Lots of threats and hatred. Christian think: "You better join our religious cult or our loving 'god' will burn and torture you in hell--forever!" The best that Christians have to offer are fear, threats, hatred (of the human race unless you join their cult, then you are okay), guilt (feeling guilty for being human), invisible friends and mythological invisible places (the myth of heaven and hell).

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Avatar for user 'DWfromLA'

DWfromLA | November 15, 2013 at 6:33 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Transformed, you mis-read the story using a western world view. There was no "Earth" before this story. This is creation of all land on Earth. The Kumeyaay creation story more reflects the Big Bang than the bible story.

There are also stories about the channel islands being mountains. The melting of the ice age raised the sea level ~ 10,000 years ago and they're now islands. There's another Kumeyaay story that talks about how there was a mass amount of water coming up from from the sea of cortez separating the area between the Colorado River and Anza-Borrego. Note this water that filled the basin came much much later after the creation story. The water then settled into what we now know as the Salton Sea. This is why sea shells can be found in the area.

The water rise separated families which resulted in the root Hokan language which is common between the Kumeyaay, Cocopah, Maricopa, Quechan, Mohave, Pai Pai, Yavapai, Havasupai, and Hualapa. The Kumeyaay have first hand knowledge passed in their stories. As for a global flood and Noah's Arc? No story such exists.

In ending, I again quote Vine Deloria Jr..
The contrast between Christianity and its interpretation of history—the temporal dimension—and the American Indian tribal religions—basically spatially located—is clearly illustrated when we understand the nature of sacred mountains, sacred hills, sacred rivers, and other geographical features sacred to Indian tribes. The Navajo, for example, have sacred mountains where they believe they rose from the underworld. There is no doubt in any Navajo’s mind that these particular mountains are the exact mountains where it all took place. There is no beating around the bush on that. No one can say when the creation story of the Navajo happened, but everyone is fairly certain where the emergence took place. Indian tribes combine history and geography so that they have a “sacred geography,” that is to say, every location within their original homeland has a multitude of stories that recount the migrations, revelations, and particular historical incidents that cumulatively produced the tribe in its current condition.Traditional Cherokees today can still tell stories about the sacred places in Georgia and North Carolina that illuminate the tribal history. The Sioux, Cheyenne, Kiowa, and Arapaho all have traditions that describe Bear Butte in South Dakota and the Devil’s Tower in Wyoming. The most notable characteristic of the tribal traditions is the precision and specificity of the traditions when linked to the landscape, a precision lacking in most other religious traditions.

Deloria Jr., Vine (2003-09-09). God Is Red: A Native View of Religion, 30th Anniversary Edition

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 15, 2013 at 6:44 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Mike-West thanks for the side step answers I'm not sure what rabbit trail your going down other than representing the non educated. Please come back to this discussion when you have done some research.

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 15, 2013 at 7:43 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

DWfromLA - Your preconceived thought process gives you your starting point. You start with the big bang and I start with the Bible . I see more similarities to the Biblical account in the Kumeyaay creation story than the big bang. Can you explain why you think this is a big bang account?

It makes logical sense that as Kumeyaay family members passed down information regarding Noah's flood, similar to the telephone game the story would have subtle changes from generation to generation presenting the creation account they have today.

On another note the shells found in the Anza Borrego area are a dismal fraction of the billions of marine fossils found all over the continents and on highest mountain tops, additional evidence for global flood.

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Avatar for user 'Zophir'

Zophir | November 15, 2013 at 8:46 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Transformed-

Marine fossils throughout the continents and on mountains is not necessarily, nor likely, evidence of a global flood. The geology of Earth has evolved over time, just like its flora and fauna. Water used to cover a lot more than 70% of the Earth, and different parts of the Earth have been covered by water at different times. Furthermore, mountains are not static either. Many mountains "grew" as a result of tectonic shifting (over millions of years). Thus parts of land that were submerged, rise above sea level, over very long periods of time. Here is an article that explains how marine fossils are found on mountains. It's an old article, but still informative (and interesting in my opinion).

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/12/us/whale-fossils-high-in-andes-show-how-mountains-rose-from-sea.html?src=pm

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DWfromLA | November 15, 2013 at 9:29 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Transformed, your quote: "Your preconceived thought process gives you your starting point." - please note, regarding the big bang, those were their words not mine.

Herein lies the problem. Are you really making a claim that a book written on a different continent, where no original complete texts exist, supersedes the knowledge of the original people living on this land? There is geographical evidence to validate the Kumeyaay stories. Their history is amazing, as it the integrity of passing knowledge.

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Missionaccomplished | November 15, 2013 at 9:30 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

2 votes. Razor thin margin.

Lot of ueseless commentary here on both. Who cares. Let's concentrate on where man is going instead.

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 15, 2013 at 9:49 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Thanks for your response Zophir - Observable science reveals that billions of marine animals are not being fossilized on the sea floors today due to scavengers, decomposers and other predators.

What makes you think things were different in the past and how do you account for the billions of marine fossils that are found all over the mountain tops?

Further clues that things decompose before they fossilize on the sea floors is the recently explored Titanic wreckage. They have not found a single trace of the human remains.

http://theweek.com/article/index/226842/are-there-human-remains-at-the-titanic-wreck-site

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David M. Hodges | November 15, 2013 at 11:03 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

[Part 1 of 2]

I always enjoy observing the religious fervor with which disciples of Darwin react to anything they think might "legitimize" or more widely publicize the "irrational" "faith-based reasoning" and "pseudoscience" of creationism. It reminds me of how fervent W. K. Clifford was in his dogmatic assertion that one is morally obligated to never believe anything absent sufficient evidence, even though Clifford could offer no evidence to prove this moral imperative that he so boldly and arbitrarily asserted (by faith alone?). It's always a pleasure to review all the name-calling ("creatard"—I haven't heard a pejorative coinage that funny since grade school) and general invective lovers of the evolutionary story heap upon any who find some other story equally compatible (or more compatible) with the evidence.

(Just to clarify: When we utilize scientific data to theorize about what could or might have happened in the past, this is storytelling. Some like to call this historical or forensic or origins science, distinguishing it from operational or experimental or laboratory science. Whatever terminology you use, the bottom line is that this "science" is not in the same class as identification of lawful regularity in the natural world based on repeatable present-day observation and experiment. Looking at present-day evidence and trying to determine what stories about the past best comport with that evidence is a perfectly legitimate activity to undertake, but at least two things should always be avoided when engaging in this activity: (1) behaving as though one brings no assumptions to the work or simply refusing to reflect upon and make explicit what those assumptions are; and (2) treating this telling of stories about the unrepeatable past as though it were in the same scientific class as the science that lets us predict causal outcomes and fabricate technology.)

[Continued in Part 2 of 2]

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David M. Hodges | November 15, 2013 at 11:05 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

[Part 2 of 2]

Fun though intolerant evolutionists' heat-without-light can be to read, it does strike me as missing the point of the article. Though the Museum Council gives certain "technical" reasons for rejecting the Creation and Earth History Museum's application, museum supporters suggest that bias against the museum's viewpoint is the real reason. Given that the few Council members who visited the museum offered nothing but praise (and certainly suggested no reason for concern over such issues as were finally given as reasons for rejecting the application), I can't help but suspect anti-creationist bias played at least some role. Whether or not this is true, what the Council has actually stated publicly is (by implication, if not in so many words) that neither the viewpoint the museum promotes nor the substance of its exhibits is in any way disqualifying so far as the Council is concerned. Those who in this forum have said the Council made the right decision because the museum teaches "pseudoscience" have, interestingly enough, contradicted the Council's claim about why it made the decision it did and have agreed with the suspicions of creationists. On behalf of all the suspicious creationists: "Thank you, unbelievers, for your support!"

In any case, those who think denying the application because the museum does not teach what is currently the "consensus" view of "scientists" (by which is meant a viewpoint held by a majority large enough to make the person using the word "consensus" believe dissenting views should be ridiculed and suppressed) really need to take a look at the range of museums already represented on the Council. The organization is not at all about imposing upon the public some official orthodoxy, whether the orthodoxy of some cultural group, of certain artistic preferences, or of the evolutionary scientific establishment ("scientific consensus"). If there is any "orthodoxy" aback the Council, it is the American libertarian orthodoxy of unfettered freedom of expression. Provided one can present one's viewpoint—historical, cultural, aesthetic/artistic, or scientific—in a persuasive or appealing or merely clear and informative manner, and do so with professional quality, one's application should be approved. Will the Council prove true to this orthodoxy when the museum reapplies, or will it jettison freedom of expression in favor of the evolutionary orthodoxy many on this forum prefer? We shall see.

[End]

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Avatar for user 'surfer34'

surfer34 | November 15, 2013 at 11:23 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

“Every song has a composer, every book has an author, every car has a maker, every painting has a painter, and every building has a builder. So it isn't irrational to take this simple logic a little further and say that nature must have had a Maker. It would be irrational to believe that it made itself.”
― Ray Comfort

We've all been force taught about evolution from grade school through college; this museum is unique as it is not government funded and is therefore able to show the other viewpoint of creationism freely. In favor of 'tolerance', go check out the Creation Museum with an open mind.

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 1:12 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

All religions and superstitions are human-made. Claiming to know a god is claiming the impossible. Why would anyone be proud of believing in our ancient ignorant bigoted intolerant sexist racist Middle Eastern ancestor's religious mythology? (Or any religious mythology from any ancient race?)

“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -Stephen F. Roberts

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Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 1:39 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Here is believers think: "I am a mortal and I know an (thunder and lightning) immortal being--a 'god; ". Does anyone hear how insane this line of thinking is?

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 1:41 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

This is what believers are saying: "I don't understand something about science or I don't think science knows something about the nature of the universe we live in but I want the answer! So I am satisfied with the non-answer that "god" did it. I don't have to have any education to be a believer and I don't have to understand science to be a believer. I just say, I believe it and it makes it true!!"

Science says it's okay to not know every answer. Modern science actually knows far more about the nature of the universe, the world we live in and about the relationships between people than any religion.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | November 15, 2013 at 1:44 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Mike West, maybe check Bugliosi's THE DIVINITY OF DOUBT. Absolutists exist on both sides. Look in the mirror.

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Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 1:45 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Believers say belief is everything. Science says doubt is everything. Belief means this: If I believe to be true, it's true. Which is why belief is nothing. Do you use belief or doubt to cross the street? Do you say, "God will keep me safe when I walk across the street, so I don't have to look before crossing the street." Or do you look several times, left and right before crossing and while crossing?

Doubt is everything. Is this the right shirt size? Do I try it on before I buy it? Doubt? Or do I believe "god" will make sure it fits me when I get home from the store? Is this the right car? Or should I do research before I buy it? Or do I just drive to the nearest car dealership, pick the first car and buy it? "God" will make sure it all works out for me. I don't have to doubt anything when I buy a car.

With this one example, we begin to see that religious doctrines simply don't work in our modern society. It's easy to show that almost all of Christianity's teachings are outdated and have no value. Christianity provides bad advice to people on how to live. Christianity is simply an outdated ancient religious mythology which does not stand the test of time.

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 2:03 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Another example of an outdated and useless Biblical teaching: "Love your neighbor". There are so many problems with this "revealed truth".

1) It's compulsory love. You must love your neighbor. Compulsory love, not good for you.

2) What if you don't like your neighbor? How can you love them? This is a directive which is impossible to follow.

3) Spouses, friends, relatives, partners and people dating--break up, divorce or have bad relationships. That is, if people in love or people who are close to each other are breaking off their relationships or having a difficult time loving each other, then how can anyone be expected to love someone like their neighbor, who they don't know?

4) What is the motivation to "love your neighbor"? To please your invisible sky daddy. This is not a compelling reason to be nice to other people. Science provides many more compelling reasons to be nice to each other. (See below.)

5) The most damning reason of all why "Love your neighbor" doesn't work: "God" can't even do it. What happens to me, per Christians, if I don't become a Christian? I go to hell--forever. What is hell? It's the absence of "god". If "god" can't love "his" people, ultimately, then how could this same "god" expect "his" children to love others?

What does science have to say about this?

Can humans be nice to each other? Yes. Science and great thinkers have much more compelling and better reasons for people to be nice to each other. Science knows that societies fair much better when people get along. It's better that people work together than against each other. We accomplish our goals far easier when we work together, than when we don't. Another reason why we can be nice to each other is this: We are the same species. It's called human comradery.

A better moral would be that is a good thing to try to get along with people who are your neighbors or to people you come in close contact with, if you are up to it. However, we know that not all people will get along, and that we are mammals and we need to act accordingly.

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 15, 2013 at 2:20 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Mike-West - you must consider yourself a god by the statements you are making . I understand that you believe you are all knowing about the past and that everything came from nothing. Reality check , you've created your own image of god along with a religious belief that takes more faith than believing in a Creator. Atheism is dead.

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Avatar for user 'DeLaRick'

DeLaRick | November 15, 2013 at 2:36 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

"Reality check , you've created your own image of god along with a religious belief that takes more faith than believing in a Creator."

Xenophanes gives the best answer to that statement:

But if cattle and horses and lions had hands
or could paint with their hands and create works such as men do,
horses like horses and cattle like cattle
also would depict the gods' shapes and make their bodies
of such a sort as the form they themselves have.

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Avatar for user 'Transformed'

Transformed | November 15, 2013 at 3:12 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

DeLaRick - "What does the fox say?"

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Avatar for user '123emaile'

123emaile | November 15, 2013 at 4:01 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Mike_West when you have created yourself as a God, and you say loving your neighbor as yourself is wrong (ie. don't lie, cheat, steal, adulterize or rape your neighbor, etc...)

So you are against moral absolutes and you define your behavior based on what's good for you vs. God. You shun the Creator God of the Bible who made you with guilty conscience that innately uses the 10 commandments to show you that you are guilty before God and that one day you stand before God and give an account. You can sear your conscience, go against the God of the Bible, but I have read His fight card record. He's undefeated and your arms are way to short to box against the God who designed the human heart, the one that hung the gagillions upon gagillions of stars in space, and who can shut off the breath of life you are sucking in to blaspheme His Holy name and plan for salvation and restoration.

Becareful upon the ground which you tread as an account will be given one day, maybe today, upon your last breath, as you die and go to judgment. Repent and live, fight God, and die eternally in your sin of pride and self righteous behavior. Again, you are in the minority, not the majority. Most people (78% of Americans recognize there is a Creator and God of the Universe). You have a major uphill climb and the amount of hate and misinformation you spew will shorten your life. www.NeedGod.com

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Avatar for user 'surfer34'

surfer34 | November 15, 2013 at 4:27 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

“Atheists don’t hate fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns because they don’t exist. It is impossible to hate something that doesn't exist. Atheists — like the painting experts hated the painter — hate God because He does exist.”
― Ray Comfort

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MahouKame | November 15, 2013 at 7:20 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Atheists do not hate god because gods do not exist.

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Avatar for user 'jerzo'

jerzo | November 15, 2013 at 8:58 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

29+ evidences for macroevolution:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 10:58 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Believers claim to have big answers and they claim to be in direct communication with a "god" (Prayer works!). Yet, call them on the carpet and they can't answer each and every challenge put to them. Christians never do this.

Either their "god" is truly weak and they need to find a more pro-active "god" or... what is the other reason why Christians don't answer all questions put to them? No believer can defend their ancient religious mythology because 1) This would mean they'd have to be honest with themselves and think about the validity of their religious truth claims. 2) Believers constantly have to shore up their belief otherwise their beliefs will shrivel up and go away.

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Avatar for user 'GrammyOf3'

GrammyOf3 | November 15, 2013 at 11:15 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

They are comparing their make-believe, no fact, fairy tale book museum to a museum for blacks? Oh puh-lease!! You can't have a museum based on a fairy tale.

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 11:15 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Atheists don't hate religious believers, we just laugh at all believers for being part of the pathetic flock of sheep who pooh-pooh science, reason and rationality.

What do believers do? They hate the human race and all nonbelievers. What is sin? It's the myth there is something wrong with you for being born a human being. Christianity, other Abrahamic religions and any religion which believes in sin are hatred of humanity clubs. The only way stop believers will stop their own hatred of a person's humanity when people take their "magical cure" and join their religious cult.

More believer hatred. If you don't join the cult of Christianity, you will go to hell and be tortured forever. And Christians believe this could somehow be moral. That finite sin equals infinite punishment. Where's the justice?

Christians don't understand basic concepts of morality for several reasons. Believers think an action to be moral because they are pleasing their invisible friend. This type of thinking does not make actions moral. The other reason why believers can't understand why something is moral or immoral is the Bible is filled with disgusting horrific and outdated morals.

Two thousand years later, almost all the teachings of the Bible are useless. I've already debunked religious belief and the outdated teaching of "Love thy neighbor" and no one has provided a sound response to my challenges.

All religions are human-made. It's time for all thinking people to leave the Bronze Age and enter into the Scientific Age.

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 15, 2013 at 11:18 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Correction to 2nd paragraph: The only way believers will stop hating another person's humanity is when that person takes the "magical cure" and joins their religious cult.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | November 16, 2013 at 10:47 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

West, I guess you MISSED the part where it says:

James 2:14-16 : What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?

AND Erich Fromm wrote that science likewise relies, to a degree, on faith.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | November 16, 2013 at 10:56 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

And Mike West, as to your statements above about compulsory love, that stems from the Jewish 10 Commandments; not from Christian or Islamic doctrine.

@KAHUNAMAHOU, GRANNY, and SURFER dude, you three are as "certain" as those you criticize. You may not hate "God" because he/she/it doesn't exist, but you certainly have CONTEMPT for believers, people of faith. THAT is where you FAIL.

And for something that doesn't exist, you're sure darn emotional about it! Your behavior betrays your posts.

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 16, 2013 at 11:32 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

It is the Scientific Age, not the Bronze Age. Why would anyone in their right mind be joyful at being duped by our ancient ignorant ancestors and their religious mythologies? Why are believers glad to shout out to everyone: "I am uneducated, I don't understand basic concepts of science, and I don't understand critical thinking and I'm proud of it! I love being credulous!"?

Why don't people want to learn about the incredible discovers of science and learn about the true nature of the world around us? Science is much more exciting, fantastic, wonderful, spiritual, and awe inspiring than any religious mythology or superstition.

Science, great thinkers and ourselves determine human values. Religion has failed miserably in the area of moral instruction and ethics and does not provide good moral instruction. Science gives us compelling reasons for a better civilization and provides the best methods and good reasons for people to treat each other nicely. Science looks forward to a healthy wonderful future for the human race. Science looks forward to a better future. Religion looks forward to the destruction of earth.

Religion is the most negative organization that I know of.

1) Being born a human being is bad. (The myth of original sin.)

2) You are nothing until you believe in an invisible friend. (Wishful thinking, self-delusion.)

3) Christianity is a death cult. Christian think: "I can't wait until I die. If I die now... but to be clear, I am not asking to die now... but IF I DO, it's okay, no worries, I will be going to meet my maker. Christ is coming back to destroy the earth and that's moral action."

These death wishes are disgusting propositions. To have the attitude that it's okay to die early is a completely immoral mind-think. There is nothing moral to yearn for the day that the earth will be destroyed. Yearning for the destruction of the earth is disgusting and immoral. Which is why Christians are all immoral people. They don't have an understanding of actual morals or ethics. Shame on Christians for being immoral people, shame on you.

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Avatar for user 'Watchemoket'

Watchemoket | November 16, 2013 at 3:16 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Would it surprise anyone to learn that "123emaile" just created the account and has commented only on this article?
(Full disclosure: I just created this account and this is my first comment.)
I just find it very interesting that this person comes on and spams the discussion with lengthy, poorly-written rants and insults to anyone who disagrees with his/her OPINION as the very first activity on this site.

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Avatar for user 'CaliforniaDefender'

CaliforniaDefender | November 16, 2013 at 3:57 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Most people (78% of Americans recognize there is a Creator and God of the Universe). You have a major uphill climb..." -123emaile

===

Not really. The nonreligious are the fastest growing population (by far) in the world. Atheists and Agnostics grew by 12% from 1910 to 2010. Christianity only by 1%.

Christianity is also growing much slower than Daoism, Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, and most other major religions except Judaism which is stagnant.

Time is on our side, my friend. Time is always on the side of knowledge and progress.

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Avatar for user 'WonderProfessor'

WonderProfessor | November 17, 2013 at 7:51 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

In today's world, before one can begin to debate religion in general or any religion in particular, we must first decide if we are going to treat the teachings as historical facts or symbolic truths. In short, are we going read the teachings literally or symbolically? If after 500 years of discovery in geography, anthropology, comparative religions, psychology, and most importantly science, someone still chooses to believe in religious teachings as absolute fact and not mythological, symbolic teachings meant to guide and protect societies and help the participants of these societies live meaningful lives, then there is no reason to debate. There is no dialogue. We are speaking two different languages.

This would not be such a problem if it were not for the fact that we live in the modern world where we have cracked many of the secret codes of nature, unleashing powers that we have yet to understand fully let alone know how to control effectively. When a large portion of our society decides to turn their backs on this world and believe in a mythological, fairy-tale world that so obviously is at odds with the universe as we have discovered it, it only makes it that much more difficult for our society to handle these powers intelligently. Will we move from an "us-versus-them, my religion is better than your religion and I'm gonna' kill you if you don't believe the way I believe" view of the world to an appreciation of the role of religions in the ancient world and what religions have to offer us today in this modern world that is speedily shrinking in size and resources? May God help us in this critical endeavor! (And by "God," I am not talking about an old man with a beard sitting on some throne just above the dome of the sky, okay?)

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 18, 2013 at 8:54 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

All religions claim their religion, is the only true religion based on belief, not evidence. No amount of belief makes something a fact, which is why all religions are human-made and not true. Claiming to know a "god" is claiming the impossible.

All believers are bullies against the human race because they claim there is something wrong with being born a human being based on the religious myth of original sin. There is no such thing as sin. Sin is a human-made concept. People do good and bad things but sin is a fake concept, it's not real.

The human race is the victim to religious bullies. Bullies who want you to believe it is moral to think the human race has a fatal flaw from birth. However, with science and the internet, the human race is fighting back and exposing religion as human-made and toxic to society. We, the victims, are fighting back, against the bully believers of all religions. And bullies hate it when their victims fight back.

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Avatar for user 'Mike_West'

Mike_West | November 18, 2013 at 9:01 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

The religious only want a one-way street. Christians are only happy when they push their religious mythology on people. Christians can't stand it when they are challenged and freak-out demanding that they are only heard and demand that no one has the right to oppose them.

Christian think: "You must respect my belief and I am immune from criticism." The reason why believers demand respect and immunity from criticism, is it's the only way they can get it.

All religions are a threat to a forward moving, healthy and progressive society because religion does not explain the true nature of the world around us, science is our best method yet, which explains the world around us. All religions are mythology and pretending that a mythology is real, is harmful to individual people and society.

This is why the creationist museum should not be allowed any type of accreditation by the museum council. The creation museum is lying to people and claiming their religious mythology is real, when it's not.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | November 18, 2013 at 12:04 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

MIKE WEST, who does not want to learn about the great scientific studies??? K-12 students? You're probably right.

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Avatar for user 'Anon11'

Anon11 | November 18, 2013 at 1:32 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

God created the universe.
God has always existed.

Now watch what happens when you cut out the fat:

The universe has always existed.

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Avatar for user 'prsh'

prsh | November 18, 2013 at 4:24 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Debating religion vs science with people who obviously have too much time on their hands is pointless. The religious are convinced they know everything and will never stray from their position or their ancient texts. They have no interest in exploring new fields because everything has been explained by god and there is no need to seek further. The real danger is if these people get a foothold in schools and policy making positions especially government. The world progresses by exploration and interest in learning more about the unknown. If these people control schooling and government then it will be left for more progressive countries to seek the answers and this country will become a fundamentalist backwater as happened with islam in the 12th century.

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Avatar for user 'ChuckWagon'

ChuckWagon | November 18, 2013 at 7:51 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

If the bible is proof of a god. Then 51 years worth of Marvel Comics prove that Spider-man is real.

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Avatar for user 'Draconian'

Draconian | November 18, 2013 at 8:53 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

You have to beware of various interests trying to infiltrate museums to legitimize themselves. In Toronto, Canada, the Ontario Science Centre let multiculturalists invade with a display called "A Question of Truth". They were so desperate for examples of science other than by old, White men that they started to introduce a lot of fibs. They had a display for "Polynesian stellar navigation", and illustrated it with a diorama where a boat measured the position of stars with respect to islands. But if you can SEE the islands, you are dead-reckoning, you are NOT doing stellar navigation. That must be credited to the invention of an accurate shipboard clock by James Harrison in 1700, allowing accurate longitude to be determined in addition to latitude.
Also, they included a model of a human body used in Chinese acupuncture and the sign read, "Chi is an energy-field around the human body." I kid you not; they said this in a SCIENCE museum! So beware, museums and museum institutions; the forces of Unreason want to invade you.

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Avatar for user 'Cesar_Hechler'

Cesar_Hechler | November 19, 2013 at 12:42 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Presentation of mythology based on the wishful thinking of very fearful, but ignorant people does nothing but disservice to anyone wishing to learn about nature or ourselves. That should be the core mission of anything wishing the appellation of museum. Creationism should deserve nothing more than any display on myths one would find in an anthropology museum or American history museum. Nothing is being presented in any creationist museum that one wouldn't find under the most strident and fearful followers of any of the tens-of-thousands of religions that have come and gone if they were suddenly confronted with having to present their material under the unambiguous rigors if scientific method. If anyone argues against scientific method, they either are woefully unaware of what it is, or very aware and know they cannot weather the scrutiny.

Some arguments rely on suggesting that such a proposition cannot be proven false. Neither, then, can it be proven true to give it value as knowledge of reality (the entire point of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Pink Unicorn memes). Even if, and this is a huge if, some mechanism of evolution could be absolutely shown as having been produced by an intelligent entity, there is no reason to attribute it to any entity without definitive signature of a particular entity. Currently, there is no signature, there is not even proof of extra-natural causes. What we do have is overwhelmingly ample evidence of natural history, such as plate tectonics and continental drift; astronomy showing distances so vast light needs billions if years to reach us, and visual proof of the birth of stars, solar systems and planets, all the while searching for life as well; archaeological history going back to two hundred thousand years and human fossil record going back seven million - the arguments against which (such as confusing carbon dating with much more advanced radiometric methods) amount to nothing more than hand waving and special pleading. None of these easily repeated observations of our surroundings bear witness to any assertions being made by creation museums. One absolutely must also ask why a number of creation museums are making individuals wealthy while legitimate museums are non-profits with sensibly paid, formally educated directors.

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Avatar for user 'Cesar_Hechler'

Cesar_Hechler | November 19, 2013 at 12:44 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

(Continuation of my previous post) Recitations of Bible verse amount to nothing but tautology and circular reasoning. Directions to singular websites are going to have nothing but bias, and a boatload of easily refutable claims if real experts (geneticists, paleontologists, etc.) are allowed to scrutinize them. However, natural and human history that can handle scrutiny without special conditions are not just in one website, but in every encyclopedia, every university, every library and in every country of the world. Having expectations and bizarre sense of entitlement that pure assertion, such as creationism, should be presented as truth outside of a church is as much a disservice to society as holocaust denial. One must have genuine ignorance, or a perverse desire for willful ignorance. Fear and superstition are not knowledge and unworthy of honored title of museum.

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Avatar for user 'pomsnz'

pomsnz | November 19, 2013 at 2:22 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

You'd think, if their 'god' was real, then hed have made sure they'd have been accepted...
Guess He never got the invite huh?
But since some people are reciting some biblical passages, Id like to put forward a few of my own.
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
Psalm 137:9
"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it."
Malachi 2:3
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Now if the 'god' was so powerful enough to destroy many many citys, youd think hed surely let one of the creationists museums (LOL) become a member of the SDMC.

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Avatar for user 'creationismisalie'

creationismisalie | November 19, 2013 at 5 a.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

One of my biggest pet peeves is when Bible Thumpers say things like "Science says you can't create something from nothing" yet they believe in a God that has always been there. You can't have things both ways. If you deny evolution because you say something can't come from nothing you can't also believe that God always existed. After all, if something can't come from nothing then God must have come from somewhere. You're trying to have things both ways and its transparent. Stay out of the science debate if you refuse to hold your own belief to the same high standard of evidence you hold science. Lord knows (pun intended) what you belief in falls apart much quicker under that standard.

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Avatar for user 'jadamrock'

jadamrock | November 20, 2013 at 1:49 p.m. ― 10 months, 2 weeks ago

Abolish religion and you abolish the worlds main problems. It's all stupid and it all sucks. Evolution is real as proven in this comment thread where some people have clearly evolved in intellect whilst others remain about as intelligent as cromags.

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Avatar for user 'MrsGrundy'

MrsGrundy | November 22, 2013 at 7:04 p.m. ― 10 months, 1 week ago

If evolution were true, we'd all have tails

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | November 23, 2013 at 10:50 a.m. ― 10 months, 1 week ago

MIKE WEST, "love thy neighbor" is a universal truth, whether it is commanded as in Jewish scripture, or done voluntarily in the Christian Era. Although, I'm sure having you as a neighbor, would put even the most firm believer to a test! (no lol)

And yes, you are right, a deity would be impossible to know, but that would be agnostic. You speak with the absolute certainty (might I add arrogance) of the atheist. You condemn our ancestors yet 500 or 1000 years from now, YOU AND I will seem like the primitive ones.

JADAMROCKKK, mmmaybe reread some history. You obviously haven't. Take World Civilizations or History at any accredited community college.

Ever hear of . . . "property," JADAMROCKKK??? When man took on and developed that's when the violent impulses in man took a turn for the worse! Private property is the true villain you are looking for. Like I said, READ history. In the mean time, enjoy living in your gated ldowntown loft.

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Avatar for user 'jerzo'

jerzo | November 30, 2013 at 6:14 p.m. ― 10 months ago

MrsGrundy: All humans possess a pseudogene for tails. Pseudogenes are mutated remnants of genes that used to function in our ancestors. Occasionally humans are born with tails - i.e. the pseudogene mutated and became partially functional - and these human tails are surgically removed in all "civilized" societies soon after birth.

Stop and think about it: pseudogenes like those that build tails and the pseudogene that we possess that used to code for an enzyme that makes vitamin C are pieces of evidence for evolution. Creationism can not explain human tails or why humans and guinea pigs are the only mammals that cannot synthesize vitamin C and therefore suffer from scurvy.

If you don't accept the evidence for evolution, why do you opt to receive a novel flu vaccine each year? If creationism were true, viruses could not evolve and there would be no need for vaccinating against the newly evolved flu virus each and every year.

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Avatar for user 'Len'

Len | December 1, 2013 at 10:15 a.m. ― 10 months ago

KPBS. Does no one monitor Comments? Is someone like 123emaile allowed to post virtually without limits? Others tire of seemingly endless scrolling and give up looking for more commen ts.

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Avatar for user 'Missionaccomplished'

Missionaccomplished | December 2, 2013 at 11:29 a.m. ― 10 months ago

@LENNY, no more so than Mike West. In fact, I challenge you to count them.

Or is it simply because you DISAGREE with 123emails, hmm???

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