S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hindman on this episode of KPBS Midday Edition. Federal officials announced charges against people in California who they say registered and voted illegally , including four in San Diego. We'll look at what's behind this investigation. This is KPBS Midday Edition , connecting our communities through conversation.
S2: So the Justice Department announced criminal charges against 28 people across California today , accusing them of election related offences , including unlawfully registering to vote and making false statements in citizenship proceedings. Four of those defendants are connected to San Diego County. Now , all 28 are lawfully permanent lawful permanent residents , meaning they are legally in the United States but are not U.S. citizens eligible to vote in federal elections. The charges come as the Trump administration is suing California over its voter rolls , claiming that more than 20,000 people are registered to vote and may not be U.S. citizens. California officials , though , dispute the government's claims and say they've not been provided sufficient evidence to substantiate them. Meanwhile , an investigation by news source has uncovered five federal subpoenas seeking San Diego County voter records , including one request for an individual's actual ballot. So what do these investigations tell us about election security , and what questions do they raise about the federal government's actions just weeks before the midterms? Jake Kincade is an investigative reporter with IE news source. He's been following this story and joins us now. Jake , welcome back to Midday Edition. Hi.
S3: Hi. Thank you for having me.
S2: Glad to have you here. So listen , earlier today , the Justice Department announced charges against 28 people in California. Um , tell me , what did the Justice Department announce outside of these 28 charges today? What? What are the details here?
S3: Uh , well , yeah. And in addition to the 20 individuals charge. You know , just to put that in context , they said that they've charged 156 people nationwide since this administration began. Uh , and they announced also that they were filing an emergency docket order today to have an injunction and make sure that the ballots were set aside while citizenship is checked in the wider lawsuit.
S1: How much do.
S2: We know about the charges against the four people in San Diego County?
S3: Well , all of them were charged with registering to vote illegally , and all four of them were also being charged with illegally voting in the 2024 election.
S2: Um , and how does this fit into the lawsuit the Trump administration filed last week? Are these charges part of that investigation? Yeah.
S3: Yeah. They are. They confirm that all these individuals who are being charged throughout the state were part of the 20,000 people on the list that was delivered on Tuesday to the California Secretary of State , as well as Los Angeles registrar. Hmm.
S2: Hmm. Um , I mean , the Justice Department is presenting these charges as evidence of a problem with California's election system , but some of the alleged violations date back years. So what do these 28 cases that we're talking about actually establish about the scale of noncitizen voting in California?
S3: Well , you know , as has been pointed out in similar investigations nationwide , not very much. I mean , 20 individuals is an extremely small percent of the registered voters. And , you know , this is the argument that , uh , all the election experts that I've interviewed on these stories have made that , you know , despite these Trump administration claims of widespread voter fraud , the actual numbers that they uncover are very small. And that's what the San Diego County registrar also says. When I asked you out in the comment that there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the county.
S2: And what do you make of the timing of these charges? They are happening , as many voters are filling out their mail ballots as we speak. Election day is just two weeks from tomorrow. How unusual is this for for it to all be happening now.
S3: Uh , well , it's very unusual. You know , there's a precedent that the Justice Department doesn't , you know , take action to , uh , in a way that could , you know , affect an election within 60 days. And that's , uh , you know , been been changed here. And this was one of the biggest things that was criticized about the water lawsuit. Uh , these allegations were initially made in July , and now , uh , it's October and ballots have gone out. And the first that they have heard back was on Tuesday , according to the state. Now this became has become sort of a he said she said situation between the Justice Department and the state of California , uh , state of California says that they , you know , asked for the methodology and , you know , the information that they would need to be able to verify these allegations that there are 20,000 noncitizens registered to vote , and they said they didn't get that information until Tuesday with a 48 hour deadline , which passed. And that's what led to the lawsuit being filed. But the Justice Department official said in this conference this morning that this is , you know , essentially a the state is lying and that this is very disingenuous narrative and that , you know , they have shown time and time again that they want to work with the state and they want to run the state's voter rolls through national immigration databases. Hmm.
S2: Hmm. Okay. So so the Justice Department says all 28 defendants appeared on this list of more than 20,000 people it identified as likely noncitizens on California's voter rolls. Am I understanding that correctly?
S3: That's correct.
S2: So , and do we know how federal officials identified those individuals and what evidence they have to , you know , that what evidence do they have? Um , and what what have they provided to support their claims?
S3: Uh , well , yeah , there's been some indications they described their methodology. And this was a big point of contention between the state and department. They wanted to know what the methodology was. They described it briefly in the press conferences , basically cross-referencing public databases with federal immigration information in order to get this list of 20,000. Um , and also , uh , they said that they , you know , subpoenaed the secretary of state and that they've subpoenaed counties throughout California , uh , which would they didn't specifically say that , you know , the Southern District cases , uh , resulted from these San Diego subpoenas , although it seems to me to be the case. So the subpoenas that they have filed to local county registrars were part of the evidence that they used to make these charges generally.
S2: And so then , I mean , what else do we know about this investigation into voter rolls in San Diego County? You mentioned the subpoenas regarding citizenship. Take me there.
S3: That's right. So , uh , we obtained the subpoenas themselves through a public records request last week , and they showed that they subpoenaed the records of 25 voters and in some cases , asking for voting history and registrations going back 15 years. But most of the requests center around the 2024 election. So this also matches the charges that are being filed against the four individuals , all for illegally voting in the 2024 election. Uh , you know , one subpoena requested somebody's actual ballot. So the ballot itself , uh , and it was interesting that the the subpoena that followed that had a big , bold disclaimer on it to not reproduce the contents of a ballot. Um , the San Diego County registrar said that they didn't reproduce any information about how an individual voted , uh , and that they're actually not able to to do that. Uh , the ballots also show that they're looking at , uh , for , like , utility records and attestations of citizenship. Mhm.
S2: Mhm. So I mean , in this , you know , one of the things that really stood out to me in your reporting is that they're actually requested an individual voter's ballot. And I mean , did that strike you at all. What relevance might that have?
S3: Uh , I yeah , I thought that that was very surprising. Um , and it's hard to say what , what relevance it has , um , because like I said , some of the other , other subpoenas specifically said to avoid reproducing the content of a ballot , um , I'm unsure , you know , what the legality of of getting the information of them for them looking for that information. But it's something that the registrar says that they can't actually produce that.
S2: So you spoke with one former U.S. attorney about these investigations. What did he tell you? Uh.
S3: Uh. That's right. Yeah. I spoke with Philip Talbert. He's a former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District. And , uh , you know , he said these types of investigations , um , are very unusual on this scale and that , uh , you know , he can only recall one case of somebody being charged criminally in his time. And he said that , you know , it appears to be a coordinated effort , you know , between the , you know , individual investigations into county records and , and this lawsuit that's , uh , clearly being also handled by DOJ headquarters. And that was , you know , very much confirmed today by this press conference. You know , you had the US attorney general there along with , you know , all these attorneys from California's districts. And then he said , you know , that the process seemed backwards because they , uh , you know , the federal government isn't is asking California to confirm citizenship when , you know , they're the ones who have access to those records. So it's sort of a fight between the two sides saying , no , you open your books first. No , you open your books first. You know , we don't.
S2: It's a back and forth here. Well , Jake , let me ask you this. I mean , because for years now , President Trump has made unfounded election fraud claims after losing the 2020 presidential election. What does that tell us about this federal investigation in San Diego and maybe its impact on midterms?
S3: Uh , well , you know , people that I talked to are confident it's it's not going to impact the the actual voting process itself. Uh , you know , despite the many efforts of the Trump administration to , you know , sort of mental with and alter the voting process , they've , you know , repeatedly failed in court , you know , including imposing these requirements on Mail-In ballots that election officials said would be very hard to implement. That was shot down in court. And , you know , the Post Office has indicated that they have no intention of following through with these new requirements. Um , so , you know , it could be something that's setting up to challenge after the fact. Uh , you know , what Talbert said to me is that , you know , it seemed like these criminal charges , are you? No way for them to say like , look. Look. Hey , we have actually identified , uh , some instances of of voter fraud. Uh , but , you know , the amount that they've actually identified , uh , 156 charges is a very small amount of the total people voting in the US. So I think they're very far from the widespread evidence of the widespread voter fraud that they've claimed exists. Hmm.
S2: Hmm. And if you could leave us with , you know , how election officials and local leaders are responding to news of these investigations? What are you hearing?
S3: Well , this has been moving really fast. So I initially reached out to , you know , our local county supervisors and congressional representatives , uh , before I even obtained the subpoenas themselves. And they basically called on , you know , the Justice Department to have greater transparency and express , you know , outrage and concern over these investigations. Um , I plan on going back today to , get further comment on these additional developments. Um , but the registrar has assured me time and time again that , you know , the elections are proceeding as normal. People can vote as normal , uh , and should be confident that we're going to have another fair and free election.
S2: All right. I've been speaking with a news source , investigative reporter Jake Kincaid. Jake , thank you so much for joining us and catching us up on the latest here.
S3: Thanks for having me.
S2: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman.
S4: Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
