S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. TwitchCon returns to San Diego this weekend. It's celebrating its 10th anniversary. We take a closer look into what live streaming is and how people are using platforms like Twitch.
S2: While everybody was paying attention to the Facebooks and Twitters of the world , Twitch was kind of creating its own sphere of influence.
S1: How is live streaming changed , how we consume media , and how is it shaping culture ? But first , San Diego's North County is struggling to build more homes. Reporters there talk about that area's housing shortage and the debates around it. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. Much like the rest of our region , San Diego's North County is struggling with questions over housing , how to build more of it , how it can be more affordable , and how communities are feeling about it. Those are some of the questions my next guests have been looking into in their recent reporting. And joining me now is Alexander Winn. He's a North County reporter for KPBS. And also Tejas Lane is here. She is voice of San Diego's North County reporter. I want to welcome you both here to roundtable. Take us. I'm going to start with you. Last week , California Governor Gavin Newsom signed Senate Bill 79. You know , allows for increased housing near public transit stations. What does that mean for North County cities , do you think ? Yeah.
S3: Well , first of all , thanks for having me. Um , yeah. So it was , you know , a very impactful moment. Governor Newsom signed that SB 79 , and we had already seen some pushback from some North County leaders , um , Mayors and council members in Encinitas , Solana Beach , Oceanside , a couple others that were already , you know , kind of opposing the bill before it was even signed. But basically , it , you know , mandates that development happened near transit areas at times administratively. So whether cities kind of want development around their transit areas or not. Um , this bill will kind of make it easier to happen. Um , yeah. Alex , I'm curious what sort of reactions you've seen.
S4: Well , for me , I don't understand why some of these North County , uh , mayors are opposing it , because , you know , there are tiers in that , uh , SB 79. So tier one , you know , quarter of miles. Uh , but that also the trained volume needs to be , uh , a certain way for it to be the.
S1: Type of public transit , like light rails handed differently than right. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. And so a lot of them , especially North County , um , the coastal cities , you know , they don't qualify for SB 79 anyway. So I don't know why they were opposing it. And I , I know that a lot of them wanted local control. And Encinitas recently elected a new mayor and a couple of councilmen. Um , because of that issue , they wanted more local control on how housing is being built. And I think that's what a lot of the mayors and city leaders in North County were opposing , is that they fear losing local control by SB 79 and everything other every other things that the governor has signed recently to increase more housing in the state.
S1: And and , Alex , as you mentioned there , like it wasn't just the North county mayors , actually. Right. State Senator Catherine Blake Speer , she was one of the few state senators to vote against the measure , like , you know , So to your point there , I think that loss of local control does seem like a key part of it.
S4: Yeah , sure. And she was a former mayor of Encinitas , too. So she is very well versed in this issue , especially in North County.
S1: Alex , you also have a story this week about the Seaside Ridge apartment complex in Del Mar , the developers now suing the city to get the project approved. And this project has been like in the works for years at this point. Right. You know , just bring us up to speed on where things are and what that project is.
S4: So this project was in the works since 2022 , and they applied for to build affordable apartments on top of the North Bluff in Del Mar , which overlooks a dog beach. And the city deemed that the application was incomplete. So they challenged that there's a couple of challenges going on , and in 2024 , they finally sued the city. And then the judge last earlier this summer said , You know what ? You need to exhaust every single venue at the city level first before you can sue. So they appeal to the city council. And then last month , the city council denied that appeal. So now they're planning to sue. They haven't filed the lawsuit yet , but they also are challenging the original ruling from the judge. So they're approaching it in two different venues in order to get this approved.
S1: Take us this story.
S3: And initially what stood out to me was there's this component of the builder's remedy that's in play and that's , um , basically a state law that says if a city doesn't have an approved housing element , which is like a housing plan that's required by the state , if the city doesn't have that approved by the time a developer proposes an affordable project , then the city just has to approve the project whether they want to or not. And that's what the Builder's Remedy says. And Seaside Ridge developers are saying that the builders remedy applies in this case because Del Mar is housing element wasn't approved at the time that Seaside Ridge proposed a project. So it's very interesting. Um , but Del Mar says no , this doesn't come into play. Um , it doesn't apply. So that'll be a huge component of this battle. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. And speaking of builders remedy , that is what they're challenging is Del Mar says it's incomplete and the developers say it is complete under the Developer Remedies of Builders Remedy. And we have a clip of that , I believe , from Darren Pajo from the spokesperson from Seaside Ridge.
S5: We have submitted all the documentation that is required by law. This is a builder's remedy project , which means the city which did not have a compliant housing plan at the time we submitted this proposal. The city must process it in accordance with the builder's remedy law.
S1: So kind of ties into what you were just talking about there , too. I mean , Alex , I think housing advocates have argued sort of some of these extensive environmental approvals really slowed down a lot of these developments. And that seems to be the case. And some of the ones we're talking about today , how , you know , how do you see that playing out in North County in some of these developments , like , as we said , the Seaside Ridge ? I think that's , you know , over 250 units , what about 100 of them are affordable , affordable , even less so , 40 some low income. Right.
S4: Yeah , about 85 affordable and 42 low and low income and super low income housing is the wording. Um , so , yeah , and a lot of projects people have used Ceqa to or the was it California.
S1: California Environmental Quality Act.
S4: Ceqa to challenge the development. And one of them is Harmony Grove , um , which is in a little undeveloped land next to Escondido that is unincorporated. And the residents there say , we want housing. We love housing. We approve. Harmony Grove North , which is , you know , four and some odd units , but we don't want Harmony. Harmony village south , Harmony Grove village south , because there's only one exit out of that area. And that area , as you remember from the Witch Creek area , the cedar , it burns very fast. And they say it's going to affect , um , evacuation. So they used Sequoia to , to , uh , deny this project. And the builders said , we've done everything under the Sequoia. And eventually it got to the Board of Supervisors and they approved it.
S1: So Harmony Grove now is moving ahead even after those wildfire risks were raised. Yes.
S4: Yes. And the supervisor did note that fire via wildfire risk , and they ask that the developer look at ways of adding a second egress out of the area , and also look at ways that they can maintain a fire in the community.
S1: Or to turn things back to you to , I guess , I mean , you recently moderated a panel at Voice of San Diego's PolitiFact , and it was on this. You know what we're talking about right now. Your discussion centered on how to create more affordable housing in San Diego. You know , tell us about some of the ideas that that came out of that discussion you had. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. For sure. It was interesting. It was a panel that was centered on finding solutions. So each panelist actually provided , like , if I could do things my way , this is a solution I would have. And a lot of them had , you know , one thing they had in common was they all kind of agreed that there are regulations in place , kind of what you were talking about with Ceqa. Um , that slows down development and makes it more costly for developers to build. And so all of them in some way kind of had an idea to speed up that process. For example , one of the panelists on my panel , um , his name is Sean Kilkenny , and he's actually one of the developers behind Fox Point Farms in Encinitas. It's this new big mixed use developments getting attention because it's like there's a farm and housing and restaurants and all that. Um , and his idea is like , there should be a statewide housing emergency where , um , projects are just approved administratively. They don't go through all these council meetings , planning commission meetings , political , um , atmosphere around it , and that will create faster housing. And , um , yeah , it was something they all kind of said was it just needs to be more streamlined and more accessible for developers to build , because more housing equals eventually more affordable housing , as they would argue , um , but then , you know , even in that audience , as I got feedback from people , a lot of people loved the ideas , but there were a lot of people who didn't , because at the end of the day , especially like in cities in North County , you do see a lot of pushback from residents who don't want that state intervention. And , you know , we're seeing more of it like SB 79 , but a lot of people don't want that. So it's just an interesting thing to navigate.
S6: Um , you know , we have about.
S1: Two minutes to go. And I do want to kind of just zoom out before letting each of you go to talk a little bit more about North County and the communities you cover there. And I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit just about what you think makes North County different from other parts of our region , and you know how you approach covering stories there ? Yeah.
S3: North County is , um , it's unique because each city has its own culture and history and people from each city are very loyal to , you know , where they come from. And , um , it varies city to city. It varies from coast to inland. Like the culture is very different. The attitudes toward things like housing are very different. And I think some people maybe misunderstand that. Yes , there are some people who just maybe don't want more housing , but there are also people who are worried about things like gentrification , and they're seeing their communities change. You know , places like South Oceanside , they're seeing it change so much from they were when they were kids. So that is something I feel like is a little bit lost in some of those conversations.
S1: Alex , I see you nodding your head. You have the last word here about 30s.
S4: Well , yeah. Same thing. I mean , San Marcos is this small town and they're being over , not over the , like , fast developments and people worried about that small town feel because , you know , we have north cities being built. There's lots of development. So that is kind of the , the feeling of of a lot of residents who live in North County. You know , when it was just rural communities.
S1: So a lot again. More concerns over growth. That's really interesting. I want to thank each of you for being here. We're going to have you on again soon to talk more about North County issues. I've been speaking with Alexander Wynne , KPBS North County Reporter , as well as Tejas Lane. She covers the North County for Voice of San Diego. I want to thank both of you for being here.
S3: Thank you. Thanks for having. Us.
S4: Us. It's great being here.
S1: TwitchCon is here. Up next , we take a look at how the streaming platform has changed media habits , even how some young people get their news roundtables back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Con goers are back on the streets of downtown San Diego this weekend. And no , it's not Comic-Con , but TwitchCon , named for the popular streaming platform TwitchCon , celebrating its 10th anniversary this year and bringing hundreds of online creators and their fans to downtown San Diego. It'll feature panels , meetups , of course , live streams meant to showcase streamer culture of all stripes. We wanted to talk more about streaming today and how it's been changing our culture over the past decade that TwitchCon has been around , and joining me to do that is Washington Post tech reporter Drew Harwell. Drew , welcome to the KPBS roundtable.
S2: Yeah , thanks for having me.
S1: So for those who may not know , can you just explain a little bit of what Twitch is and how it works ? Yeah.
S7: So Twitch's live streaming. It's a platform where you go on and you watch people stream for hours at a time , sometimes broadcasting their life. Often they're playing video games or sewing or doing something , but they'll also kind of go out into the real world and you'll get to follow them. It started as I mean , the name Twitch comes from fast twitch muscles of playing like first person shooter video games. And people were really into watching other people play games. And at the time it was so it was so easily dismissed because the , you know , the joke was , why would you want to watch somebody do that ? But over time , it has really become something that has not just , you know , rival other social media and other video platforms that really become this like entertainment medium all its own , with its own , you know , genre of influencer celebrities that make , you know , millions of dollars , sometimes have millions of fans. And so it's really , you know , created this kind of rival to Even , you know , traditional Hollywood in a way , in terms of how famous these people can get. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And going back to its roots , like you mentioned , it started as this platform to share video gameplay. Basically. That's what I recall. I remember that being a big part of the culture. Right. When did you start seeing that sort of expand out , not just to , hey , figure out how to finish this level of this video game , or kind of like , check out this new game before you bought it , but really become this , like window into people's lives. And this , you know , creating these personalities that , like you said , are huge celebrities today. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. I mean , what's interesting about Twitch is when it started , it wasn't even about video games. It started as this quote unquote life casting service. It was named Justin.tv. And there was this guy , Justin Kahn , who strapped a camera to his hat , and he would go out and you could watch him. And it was always , you know , the novelty of it was , am I going to watch when this guy falls down or , you know , embarrasses himself ? And so there was a kind of voyeuristic , almost like reality TV element to it. Then video games took over for a long time , but just the popularity of the platform as people were going on to their. And the point that , you know , these people had other lives too , and you know , they would stop playing video games and their fans would still be there wanting to see what they were doing. It really the medium kind of just grew and more creators started funneling into streaming. They got more comfortable doing it. The the fans followed , the advertisers followed , and the audiences started to grow up. So you started to get new generations of viewers. So it really kind of just flourished , um , pretty gradually over time , you know , while everybody was paying attention to the Facebook's and Twitters of the world , Twitch was kind of creating its own sphere of influence on online. And now , you see , you know , it has this real world impact to where people will travel for these conventions. They'll go travel to see their favorite Twitch streamer. And yeah , it's really it's really made a huge dent in the culture.
S1: And you mentioned , you know , some of the other platforms that also do live streaming.
S7: I mean , it's surprising to me how big some of these creators can be. You look at some of they will be names. A lot of people will probably never have heard of people like I show Speed and Kaiser or not , but these are people who , you know , they'll go on global tours and they'll show up to , I did a story on a guy named , I Show speed , who's 20 year old from Cincinnati. He did this basically global tour where he dropped into Lithuania , and when he landed on this private jet , it was like a Beatlemania mob that greeted him at the at the tarmac , you know. And these were these were young people who didn't even speak English. And they were they were interested. So there's a kind of a global impact to it. But yeah , it is really big. And what's interesting to me too , is unlike TikTok , where you're going to be watching five second videos at a time , people will go onto Twitch and watch their favorite streamers for hours at a time. And there's a parasocial element to it where you're not just going to get that kind of viral , you know , little cotton candy. You really want to see this person's life play out and see what they're going to do and how they interact with other people.
S1: Yeah , that's really interesting because I imagine just your relationship with that person differently than someone you follow on TikTok where you said , you know , you might see them in shorter bursts occasionally , right ? You can really develop a connection to , like , I show speed or whatever , which I've seen those videos and they're pretty breathtaking , like him going into different countries. And those mobs , as you mentioned. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. And it really is a skill from the creator's point to because , you know , entertaining somebody for five seconds at a time is one thing. But like keeping that attitude and that energy for hours at a time and , you know , on Twitch there's a genre of basically marathon streamers who the whole thing is , I'm going to be streaming my life for a month at a time. I did a story on a young woman in Austin who's streamed her life for three years , 24 over seven and is still going and she'll be sleeping in 100. Hundreds of people will be watching her , you know , basically sleeping. And it's just a really unusual thing , you know , it gets back to all this kind of , I think , basic part in our minds of just our interest in watching people live their own lives that you don't really see on some of the other platforms that are a little more polished and are all about kind of getting hooking people with a kind of viral meme or something. Whereas Twitch , you know , you really you're going to lock , you're going to sit in and have this person be the background music of your day , or watch them all night or all afternoon. So it's it's really fascinating to see.
S1: And , you know , you mentioned that story. You did , you know , profiling this marathon streamer. She goes by Emily CC you know , can you tell us more about what made you interested in wanting to to tell her story ? Yeah.
S7: Well I heard about her. You know , she had this breaking moment where , uh , another streamer called Kai Sennott , who was doing his this month long marathon straight. He's basically a celebrity in this world. He had learned that she was streaming for three years , and they had this moment where they connected on a broadcast together , and she was like in tears. She felt like seen for the first time ever. And it was just , you know , I had this kind of lurid fascination with figuring out what is life like when your whole , you know , 24 every waking moment is on stream for people ? And so I reached out and spent some time with her and what came out to me. I mean , what was interesting was she before she had started streaming , she she felt like she didn't really have a lot of goals in life. She was , you know , working at CBS. And she found really a level of friendship and almost belonging online. That was just really unusual to I think a lot of people and people started seeing that in her too , where they would spend hours with her. They'd be learning about her life even though they'd never meet. And so I think it was just it was interesting seeing people use this online platform and feel like they were finding some friendships , even though they were kind of warped. Relationships , right ? These were people who were never really going to meet each other , and yet they knew , you know. The viewers knew so much about her life , even though she would have never been able to recognize them on the street.
S1: Yeah , it's a really interesting portrait. We actually have a little clip of , you know , this is a little video. It's edited of Emily , and this is as she goes , you know , shopping during Black Friday.
S8: Well , it's a big trucks here.
S9: I don't even know what I'm looking for here. I would like to reduce wrinkles. Please sponsor me. Please sponsor me. Actually , this is a really cute keyboard , though. I want a PS5. Oh , here. Oh , that's a PS5. This looks like a freaking gigantic football. I'm chilling in the back rooms. Yep. This is $40. Has everyone lost their mind ? What about a mini fridge ? So I'd never have to leave my desk ? Guys , you should get one of those. Of you have animals. They're so good.
S1: That's just to kind of give a little taste there of of Emily. I mean , I'm sure you saw like a lot more of this goes , you know. Like you said , it's been going for three plus years. You know , there is this theme of loneliness , isolation , connection that are , you know , as part of your reporting.
S7: And I think it's funny , you know , listening to that clip , it's not exactly scintillating entertainment. Right ? It's not , you know , it's not explosions and a thrill ride. But that's what people want out of it. They want this almost , you know , it's almost banal in a way. But they want just to be experiencing life with this person and feeling like they. And so , you know , a lot of streamers on this platform , a lot of young people , you know , people in this country , um , are looking for a sense of belonging or feeling lonely or feeling like in her case , you know , she had she had graduated from high school , her friends moved away. She was looking for that group and she found it online. She found it by spending , you know , hours at a time with these people. And so Twitch has kind of framed itself as a way to , like , help create these relationships. But I think the truth of it is , you know , it is something different , spending time with somebody in the real world versus watching somebody live their life. And it's a life you're never really going to participate in. And so I think that just made it extra fascinating to me , is these people build these real parasocial relationships that feel very legitimate to them. And yet , you know , at the end of the day , they can still turn it off and go on with the rest of their life.
S1: And , you know , I think it's interesting in your reporting to the story , you , in a sense , became part of the story during the hours you spent with her. Right ? Like everything was live streamed during the time you spent and the questions you asked her , do you think that in any way , you know , impacted your reporting , or how did you look upon that story differently with that lens ? Absolutely.
S7: Yeah , it was a really it was a really odd experience because I knew it was going to be unusual. Um , I knew it was an unusual life being on camera , but I did not understand it until I was at her apartment. And I'm sitting there at the desk with her. I'm doing my interview. You know , when I like , report on people , I. I'll talk to them. And it's just me and them. In this case , I'm talking to her. And , you know , 2000 people are watching us and they're like criticizing me in the comments of her chat room saying like , oh , that was a dumb question. Or I knew he was going to ask that. And so it was. And , you know , it's it's a little unnerving. And then , um , one moment she , like , paused to go to the bathroom. So I was just sitting there at the screen and people were talking to me , and I could just feel like my face was getting warm because I could feel them , just like looking at me through the camera. And I was just it was like it was a eye opening experience for me because I was like , this was hard for me in a minute , but this is her life for three years , and it's just a it's such an inhuman , um , scenario that we would find ourselves in. You know , we we take it for granted how much time we get on our own to just be ourselves. Whereas she she never she never gets out and you know , she she's I think one of the , you know , edge cases. But there are a lot of streamers who will just be on there for hours and hours at a time. And it's really , you know , to , to but to them it just becomes second nature. And I think that's a fascinating kind of element that this social media model has put us in.
S1:
S7: Like , of course , when I do these stories on creators and influencers , there's a lot of people who just say , I don't get it. I'm never going to get it. These people , you know , why would they do this ? Um , but there were also people who did get it and they understood it for , you know , these , this these were the kinds of , um , cultural icons that would have been , you know , rock stars or movie stars 20 years ago. That's who they are now. And instead of , you know , making a two hour movie , it's like there's a two hour movie of their life every day that you can participate in. And so there were some people who kind of recognized that this is just what , you know , this this is not a completely odd case. And there are a lot of people , you know , parents like , you know , I'm a parent and who said , um , I now understand why my kids are watching these. Um , I may not I may not like it. I may not support it , but like , there is something there is a depth there that you don't always get when you're just sort of seeing a bunch of , you know , weirdos playing video games on a website. But there is , you know , there's a there's a connection there that you don't really find all that often online.
S1: I want to zoom back out to talk a little bit more about streaming and sort of that place and culture as today , um , you know , TwitchCon is the ten year anniversary. It's changed a lot , as we've talked about. How have you seen streaming change ? Um , you know , just the type of content or the way people are using it.
S7: For a long time , you know. I would say probably 90% of streaming was video games. And that's still , I think one of the , the , the big markets for Twitch. Um , but you do see a lot of people just , you know , there's a whole you can go on Twitch right now and see somebody painting a painting. Coding. There are people who study on Twitch just kind of do normal stuff in their life , and people watch it. I'm surprised how much people will watch these things , but it really becomes more about the personality of the person on camera. I'll also say it's become very competitive. Um , you know , social media , I think about these things as labor stories , the creator economy , especially with these influencers , it's very much a 1% , um , economy , just like with any media , just like with , you know , baseball , you know , only 1% of the players would actually make it to the big leagues. It's the same situation here. And yet you also have a lot of young people getting into this business , um , and hoping that they will become a star , but most of them are not going to. Most of them will stream to an audience of zero. People write for many hours at a time because they want to make it. And so there's an interesting economic level to that , too , because , you know , Twitch specifically is owned by Amazon , which I have to say. You know , Amazon , Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post , which I work at. Not that I let that affect me , but , um , you know , Amazon is a big company. They bought Twitch for $1 billion. Twitch makes a lot of money , and not all of it flows down to the creators. So I think that has been interesting kind of seeing that , um , labor market play out where there's always going to be a new streamer that you're having to compete with for , for a finite amount of attention. Um , so you're seeing people kind of push the boundaries and try new things. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , I was surprised by your story about Emily Sisi. I mean , she she's not making millions from this , I think from your reporting. Right. I mean , she was making money , but even in her grand scale , it wasn't like millions and millions of dollars. Right.
S7: Right. And there are some people who do that , but they are a vanishingly small crew. And so , you know , everybody wants to be that person. But there's a giant , you know , middle to lower middle class of streamers , basically. And she's , you know , she she makes a healthy living , I think. But again , you know , it's a you don't you don't get days off right. You don't get sick time. You don't get vacations. You you're you're performance is where you make the money. And so people can people can log off any time. They can stop subscribing any time. So it's a very volatile kind of job. I can't even really say a career because we don't know how long this is going to last. And so , you know , there's a lot that goes into it that you don't always think about.
S1: And , you know , during the the 2024 presidential election , I think in its aftermath , we heard a lot about podcasts as this sort of new digital form , kind of as a source of getting information , news for a lot of young people. I'm wondering how you see streaming fit into that picture.
S7: And there are , you know , political commentator news streamers who are very popular. One of them is Hassan Piker. He's a , you know , leftist , and he will be on for hours every day streaming to an audience often of , you know , 20,000 , 30,000 people. And , you know , he he gives his take on the news , he talks about current events , and he's basically just sitting in his room in LA and , you know , scrolling through news stories and chat messages. But a lot of people love it. And he's a very charismatic person. A lot of these commentators are. And so , you know , these are people who , um , they don't have any training. They're not necessarily going out. And that kind of , you know , legacy journalistic way. But a lot of people trust them. They get their news from them. You're seeing that more , you know , the number of people who are really picking up a print newspaper to get the news is is just falling apart and the number of people who are going to people they trust , you know , rightly or wrongly , personalities that they care about to to really understand what's happening is , is really is growing. So I think it is , you know , and I think the podcast election part , you definitely saw that. I always think of that as shorthand for just a change in digital media , where it became more about , you know , in this there was some there was a marathon stream element to some of , you know , President Trump's podcast to where he would go on for three hours and just talk. And I think , yeah , yeah , I think the backbone of it was less about this as a podcast and more about like , I want to see this person in a casual way , just talk , you know , be himself , not not deliver these , you know , market friendly lines. But just let me get a sense of who that person is. And so that's basically streaming to a tee. You know , there there's only so much content you can plan if you're going to be doing an eight hour stream , and the rest of it is just going to be you , and that's what people are tuning in for.
S1: That's really interesting. I want to thank you for breaking down some of streamer culture for us today. I've been speaking with Drew Harwell. He's a tech reporter with The Washington Post. Drew , thanks so much for being here.
S7: Yeah , thanks for having me.
S1: When we come back , how one Twitch streamer is merging the worlds video , gameplay and interviewing. That's coming up on KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. This week we're talking about the age of streaming as TwitchCon returns to San Diego. This weekend , we wanted to take a closer look into how streaming is shaping our culture today and really becoming a place where people can learn more about the world and even a place to get their news. One of the streamers kind of pushing the boundaries of what we think of when we watch streams today , goes by Connor eats pants. He's known for his Fortnite Friday streams , where he invites guests to join him to play one of the world's most popular online video games. He's gained a lot of attention recently , featuring some high profile politicians , including California Governor Gavin Newsom. And here's a clip from that stream. Newsom is talking about a conversation he had with President Trump.
S10: And the conversation begins with , hey , hey , what do you think this is Trump talking ? Because , hey , what do you think ? You know , this new scum thing ? It's pretty good , right ? Because he calls me new scum. Yeah. And and he goes pretty good. It's pretty original. I said it's not original. He goes , what do you mean it's not original ? I said , I said , brother , literally in eighth grade I was called new scum. I said , it's not original. And he was kind of hurt that it wasn't. He thought he had come up with something so original , so good. And so. But this is the present United States is 79 years old , acting like a seven or a nine year old.
S11: I don't get him because , like , he literally had Meatball Run , which was a that hit that was good. And then he like started to call him like Ron the sanctimonious.
S1: And in that conversation while playing , they talked about everything from the state of the Democratic Party to immigration enforcement , from the war in Gaza to artificial intelligence , all while in gameplay. And Connor Pants joins us now. Thanks so much for being on KPBS roundtable.
S11: Of course , of course. Thank you for having me.
S1:
S11: I forget how they all kind of originate. I think , um , his one of his , like , social media guys , like , uh , DM'd me on Twitter. Or maybe I tweeted at him at one point and then , like , one of them reached out. That's usually how it goes , is I'll just like , tweet it someone that I think would be funny. And then , um , if their manager interacts with me or even they , like , message me back , I try to see how I can make it happen.
S1:
S11: I saw that he was doing like more like , uh , like podcasting stuff for the past couple of months with some interesting people. And so it was like , well , if these people can have him , then I bet I can , and I guess it worked out.
S1: So how do you , you know , how do you approach the conversations you have ? I mean , we heard that clip. And just to give folks , you know , you can't see it. But I mean , you know , you're talking about something that could be very seriously in that case , you know , he's talking about some of his interactions with President Trump there. But then , of course , you know , there's fighting going on and there's stuff that kind of , you know , takes over your attention.
S11: It's just like growing up with online games where , like , I was interacting with people online , like while playing since I was like , what , 1112 ? And so I just kind of like know the way conversation flows kind of over , like when you're behind a screen. Um , and knowing that I started doing Fortnite Friday because I thought it'd be funny to sort of get like , unexpected people in those situations. Um , and so it started just with , like , random , like be seamless celebrities that I could get in touch with. Um , and then eventually I started getting like some political people on. And the conversation obviously evolved to more serious topics. Right.
S1: Right. And , I mean , you're kind of talking about just kind of going back to your roots and just having conversations , playing games. It's a pretty common thing for people that play video games , right ? But obviously like ramping it up a notch with with public figures. I mean , obviously you've talked to a lot of celebrities , high profile folks , but I mean , do you treat it differently ? And when you talk to a politician , I mean , you talked to former Congressman George Santos. You've talked to other , you know , political figures. Do you treat those differently than when you talk to , I don't know , like the Ressler thing ? Yeah.
S11: I mean , I would say definitely Gavin was treated differently. George Santos was himself a bit of a enigma that I kind of could have some fun with , with some questioning. But with Newsome , with how high profile he is and stuff like that , and how being a politician of that size , obviously every decision they make really affects people , and there's always somebody in the audience that's been affected by something. And so I had that. I think with that one be a bit more mindful of , I need to make sure I talk about this or mention this , or don't let him get off the hook for this. Whereas I think , like a more traditional media figure might be more reserved in that context.
S1: Right , right. And that's kind of what I want to kind of get into is , I mean , how do you view yourself in this role ? Um , popular streamer , political commentator Hasan Piker. You know , he maybe it was a little tongue in cheek , but he called you like , the number one political journalist right now. I think after that , that Newsome stream. Um , yeah. So I'm just curious how how you feel your role is in these conversations.
S11: Um , I mean , I definitely don't put myself that high in my own mind. I guess I've always had humility like that in that sense , but I definitely , like I just try to be I try to make a funny stream , like my goal with everything I've done forever is like , I'm just gonna make people laugh. Um , and with that , I think especially now with like , comedy comes like a level of like knowing certain things politically that I think I just had to address. You see , like a lot of comedians now fall into a , like , very like a trap of almost like , victimizing themselves in their comedy , like , oh , you can't joke about things now. And I've always found that a little bit silly that you need to be mindful of , you know , the amount of people out there that , you know , do potentially think differently from you. And I've with that in mind , I've gone into my streams to try to like necessarily appeal to everybody , obviously. I'd say like I'm definitely more left and right. Like , uh , politically. But , um , you know , I think try to highlight that side of humor where a lot of times it's kind of labeled as like the side that can't be funny. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And you've had , you know , I mean , people from more the left , but also from the right. You I mean , I don't know how to put this. You may or may not have had Elon Musk on as well. Right. As a guest. Yeah. I mean , talk about that experience a little bit. Can you explain that that one.
S11: That one's a long story. Like there was this like Twitter account that was like that sounded exactly like him , uh , that he would interact with Elon , which was strange because he had been known to , like , make alternate accounts on Twitter before.
S1: Um , he's also like , a really famous video game player , right ? Like , I think he's. Yeah.
S11: Yeah.
S1: Top Diablo player , allegedly.
S11: Things like. Well , he's not he lies about all that. Uh , he's actually very , very bad. And which is a very strange thing about him. And so I reached out to this one account , Count Adrian that had been heavily rumoured to be him , and he was down to do it. Um , when he was on the show , it definitely sounded like him and everything , but it's still murky. On whether or not it's him. I'm not sure , and I've stopped worrying about it because I really can't figure it out. But there's reasons to believe it was and reasons to believe it wasn't. Um , but it was certainly a funny stream.
S1: Regardless , what makes a great guest for Fortnight Friday.
S11: I think someone that can play into , like , the absurdity of it and not take themselves too seriously. A problem I've run into lately is that I've had more political people. Like , I think it makes more traditional celebrities more reserved to go on like , oh , am I going to go play Fortnite and be asked about like Israel ? Like , that's not really my intention with like , any traditional celebrity. But it's like , you know , I want people to be able to come on and laugh and have a good time. And the goal whenever I do an episode , I want , like the announcement of the person on it in and of itself , be like , funny. Like , what are they doing playing Fortnite on Twitch ? That's absurd. And that's kind of how I look at it.
S1:
S11: Like with Gavin , for example , like you could kind of see at points where he would start going off on his talking points , that he's sort of prepared and knows how to like , play. And at that point , I could just kind of interrupt them with something about the game , and it would be asking about something gameplay wise , and it would throw him off and he would. Take.
S1: Take.
S11: Him out.
S1: Of the game talking point.
S11: Yeah , it would shake him out of it. And then suddenly it became a more casual conversation again. Um , and that's something I've noticed that just makes it a good format for stuff like that. Right.
S1: Right. And I'm just curious how you yourself get your news or think about streaming and its role in culture today.
S11: Yeah , I think streaming gives a level of authenticity to like a viewer that you don't really have in traditional media , when someone's like doing their own show all the time and it's only them running it. Um , I think you do get a lot more like it just feels like a more genuine connection. But that can also be a slippery slope of , you know , people getting a bit too connected to streamers they don't really know or trusting them. But I do think it's a new layer of media that hasn't really existed before.
S1:
S11: There was a lot of attention on it , um , for sure , compared to other ones , at least in like different media channels. Um , but it also , I think highlighted like that's what we talked about earlier with like , I'm trying to like be more like a comedic outlet than like a political one or like.
S1: A talk show than like a political meet the press.
S11: Exactly , exactly. I always compare it to , like , hot ones instead of like , you know , anything else. Like , I think hot ones is actually the best comparison for what I do. Right.
S1: Right. The show where people kind of eat hot wings and just kind of get pretty goofy , like celebrities and stuff. Right. Exactly.
S11: Exactly. Yeah. And so since I've always compared it to that , now that , like , I did the news someone and then I get like a state representative from like Oregon that wants to , like , come on the show. I'm like , well , that's not really like someone I'm looking to have in feature. Not not nothing against them , but like , it's not like that would be like bringing in an audience of people excited and thinking it would be funny. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Got it. So , you know , we've been talking on our show a little bit about streaming and , you know , some of the different ways that , you know , people are experiencing it today.
S11: I think that a lot of young people really enjoy the immediate like response you get from like a streamer , but again , a lot of them now are on like TikTok and stuff , and there's TikTok streamers that are doing crazy numbers and such. I mean , honestly , like , I feel like the creator industry or even just like entertainment industry is like advancing so quickly , both with like the the forms in which we consume it , like online with Twitch or TikTok or such , or even like now with like AI and things getting involved , uh , you know , everything's changing so fast. So it's honestly hard to say what stuff looks like in ten years. Um , but I definitely think that it is like showing itself to be the primary , like , source of entertainment and even news for young people.
S1: Connor Pants is an online streamer who'll be appearing at TwitchCon this weekend. That's down at the convention center here in San Diego. You can watch him on Twitch at Twitch.tv pants , and you can find his Fortnite Friday , including his stream with Gavin Newsom. Connor. Thanks so much for chatting with us today.
S11: Thank you so much for having me.
S1: That'll do it for our show this week. Thanks so much for listening. You can listen to the show anytime as a podcast. KPBS roundtable airs on KPBS FM. Noon on Fridays again Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any ideas for a future show. Thoughts on today's show ? You can always email us at roundtable at KPBS or leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producers this week were Ben Rutledge and Brandon Truffaut. The show was produced by Juliana Domingo and Ashley Rush. Quinn Owen is supervising audio producer , Brooke Rooth is roundtable senior producer. And I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again for listening and have a great weekend.