S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition. On today's show , a breakdown of prop 50 and a new art exhibit exploring San Diego's lost communities. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. We'll hear analysis from political scientist Rick Epps. As ballots reach your mailbox , then a panel of guests join us as we turn our conversation to an art exhibit from the African American Museum of Fine Art and what it reveals about San Diego's black community. That's ahead on Midday Edition. So ballots are out , the fight for redistricting is underway , and prop 50 is in the hands of voters. The measure would reshape California's congressional districts in an effort to offset Republican moves to gain seats in Texas in August. We talked to California State Senator Akilah Webber about why she supports the effort. Take a listen.
S2: Unfortunately , these are not normal times. And California , along with the rest of the nation. But California is really , um , taking a beating from this administration. And we have to at least allow our voters the opportunity to stand up and do all that we can do.
S1: Well , joining me live is political scientist Rick Epps. He's taught at San Diego State , UCLA and UCSD. Right now , he's a professor and academic Senate president at Imperial Valley College. Rick , it's great to have you back on the show.
S3: Good to see you , Jane. Yes.
S1: Yes. So remind us how prop 50 came to be and how it would work to counter Republican efforts in Texas.
S3: Well , originally it came up in 2016 and it was an effort to confront the first. It was accountability issues with regard to gerrymandering and actually holding our legislators accountable when they did things that were inappropriate. This current version , this was based on the reality that of what took place in Texas , which was Texas even , which is unprecedented normally to redistrict but prior to census. Right. Because usually when the census comes , you start , you redraw your districts. And this isn't just new to Texas either. This has been this happened in North Carolina that , you know , politically , people have been using gerrymandering forever. And it's sort of a slick way to stack the deck in your favor. So if you have a certain demographic of people , whether they be African-Americans or , you know , Hispanics and so forth , that if you don't want and your numbers are growing in your district , and they may tend to disagree with the political norm of that district , they can simply move the address a couple of blocks to the right or the left , and then that changes the power structure of that group of people. And so that's how it starts.
S1:
S3: And I don't say that because I'm thrilled about that. Gerrymandering is should never be the case. I'm a big fan of nonpartisan , you know , redistricting , which is what we currently have. But I'm also look , I've been in politics around politics for a very long time. And it's it's unfortunate that if anybody thinks that , that the people in politics are altar boys or altar girls or whatever , that that's not the case. You have to , unfortunately deal with the ugly realities that people will unfortunately seek advantages. I don't think that Governor Newsom is looking at this issue and thinking , well , haha , I got you. I think he's very disturbed by the process of what he's trying to do and what the California Citizens Redistricting Commission , the CCRC handing off this , which normally is responsible for redistricting , handing this potentially off to the state legislature. It is it's a very hard push. But I would also agree with Akhila that it's a very potentially necessary push , recognizing that it's only temporary , like they're only talking about doing this for the next. Well , it starts in 2026. If it's approved , it'll end at the after the redistricting in 2030. So you're talking about a four year window. So it's a temporary stopgap to help mitigate what happened in Texas.
S1: How many seats could Democrats.
S4: Stand to gain if this passes.
S3: They could gain up to five seats. And that's pivotal in terms of politically. And and again , it's built to try to help , you know , break down the partisanship that would occur if if we don't do this , if we don't do this , then we slide further toward the conservative Republican side of the world. And I'm not saying that I'm not denigrating the Republicans and conservatives for that. And generally speaking.
S1: Is that what we're sliding more towards.
S3: Though ? Oh , absolutely. Yeah , it's and , you know , for me , the idea is equity , right. You try to find a balance system where , you know , everybody gains a little and everybody gives up a little. But we have slid a long ways in the opposite direction in our representation. And because of all the issues we talk about politically , you know , dealing with legislature and that's , you know , there's a lot of money involved , lobbyists , these people who are basically buying the system. And that's been going on for a long time. There's been many pushed discussion about , you know , dealing with the lobbyists in , you know , in D.C. and also in California and other legislatures. It's it's a problem , and it dictates a lot of the political outcomes that sometimes ultimately hurt the people , where there's not equity that everybody's not saying , hey , can we just get along and find a balance ? Somebody saying we. This is how we view the world , and this is the way we want to carve it out. And everybody's going to follow the rule. That's not the way our system was supposed to be built. And this is a little stopgap to try to change that.
S1: So I keep hearing terms like autocracy.
S4: Dictatorship is in terms of the way the country is sliding.
S1: Would you describe.
S4: It that way ? And do you see this.
S1: Ballot measure.
S4: As a way to stop that ? Yeah.
S3: You know , it's interesting. Aristotle was the first person to define different types of systems. And , you know , when you look at the world we're in right now , you know , people like the word democracy because it makes them feel good. But I tell people all the time that German Democratic Republic of East Germany was called a democratic republic. Yet it was incredibly it was not a democratic republic at all. We liked the term democracy , but we really don't operate that way. We really are more of an oligarchy , and an oligarchy is defined as ruled by a few in the interest of the rulers. And so , you know. Which means that if you have multinational corporations or rich individuals , they control the politics and power of the system. Um , so , yeah , we , we , you know , and I'm actually working on a paper right now , white paper on authoritarian democracy , because I really feel like that's kind of what we've slipped into , and not just in our country , but across the , across the globe. We there are a lot of countries that are becoming much more heavy handed with their approach to how they treat their citizens and taking some of the power away. And a lot of it's based because the citizens don't understand politics or power , because they're not taught it at a younger age to help understand that. When when I grew up in middle and junior high school , we called it civics and everybody had civics class. So you started learning , you know , at an early age. And now I get students all the time to come in at 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 years old who have no , no , no base of knowledge about these issues that they're they're charged with voting on things that they have no concept of well.
S1: And speaking of understanding things and making sure folks have a better concept of things. You know , a lot of us are being inundated with prop 50 ads on television.
S3: And so if I manipulate the influence where I tell the white lie , if you would. Right. I'm not telling you maybe necessarily a complete lie , but I only tell you the part I want you to hear so that I can get you to vote or think a different way. And that's typically what we see , is that we allow for these half truths or even misinformation to be put forward. And to me , it's unfortunate because what it does is it it allows for those who have power or seek power to control the sort of sociological mindset of the country , even if the information is wrong. And unfortunately , there's a lot of news organizations today that are holding their nose and allowing for these individuals to not , they will let them tell the lie even if they know it's a lie. That's the part. And that's where the credibility of the news organizations has really been hit. Even for the ones that are credible , because the narrative of those that aren't there kind of thrown in , you know , the baby in the bathwater , they're thrown in with everyone else because people see the ones that are misleading people and are pushing that narrative and saying that all news is fake or all all news lies. And so it's unfortunate because there are some excellent news people out there who do have reverence for for providing real information.
S1: So where would you then suggest voters get credible information to know what they need to know about this measure , and also credible information so that they know whether they're hearing lies that have been unfiltered and truth.
S3: Well , there's a couple of places that I like. I mean , honestly , KPBS has a very good job of this. I think they do a very decent job. I will stay off the MSNBC's and CNN's of the world , but I will say there's a couple of websites they go to. Fact checker , for example , is one of the really cool websites to be able. I tell my students who want to see what's going on. Check fact checker because it'll tell you you can put it in in prop 50. It'll tell you the pros and cons. It'll tell you what you know , what's true or not true. If your legislator says something that about a certain position on it , you can verify it immediately. So when you can. And to me for that I tell my students. So sometimes you have to confront truth. So if somebody's telling you , for example , if somebody said , you know that smoking is bad , but they're getting all their money from , you know , smoking industry , well , then you have to decide , well , you know , are they not ? Perhaps they're not the right person. Right. So I think by trying to give them sites that are nonpartisan and that are reasonable and respectable is where I try to land for them to get information.
S1: All right. And of course , you can always head to pbs.org for for that credible information. Yeah , we'll leave this conversation here , but continue on. I've been speaking with Rick Eppes , professor and academic Senate president at Imperial Valley College. Still to come. Rick Epps is sticking with us as we talk about the forces that disperse San Diego's black community and efforts to bring it together. We're back after the break. Ooh.
S2: Ooh.
S1: Welcome back. You're listening to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. You know , San Diego once had a very large , thriving , tight knit black community. Over the years , though , many black San Diegans moved away or were forced out of their neighborhoods as a result of policy choices and other forces of displacement. So what happened to San Diego's black community ? Why did it disperse ? And what do we know about the community that once existed here and the community that's here now ? Well , my next three guests have seen firsthand how it's changed over the years. They're here to talk about their own stories , the black community story of resilience and current efforts to revitalize that sense of identity. I'm joined now by Rick Epps , professor of political science at Imperial Valley College. Grady Finney , the executive director at the San Diego African American African-American Museum of Fine Art , and Sheree Jones , founder of the non-profit Black San Diego. Welcome to you all.
S5: Thank you , thank you , thank you.
S1: Jade , it's so good to have you here. Um , anybody know where you can find a good plate of soul food ? Um.
S5: Let's see.
S1: It's the number one.
S5: Question that's always on the Facebook group Black. San.
S1: San. Diego.
S5: Diego. Yes. Stay on some good food. Yes.
S1: Still question marks out there , I see , but.
S3: There used to be one downtown. Right. Bye bye bye. Horton Plaza across the street. And then it disappeared. Now.
S5: So that's the norm here in San Diego. Oh , wow.
S1: Well , you know , Rick , you know , people might not know this , but La Jolla once had a pioneering black migrant community , and your family. Were.
S5: Were.
S1: A major part of that legacy. So tell me a little bit about your family's story.
S3: Yeah , my my grandma , my great uncle came out in the mid 1920s and he actually was a laborer from Arkansas , helped build the La Valencia Hotel. And there are a lot of the black workers lived down in the Hoya village that worked for the rich whites in the up in the mountains , up in the hills. And so my grandfather came out in like 1932 after my father was born and by himself. And because my uncle said , hey , there's some jobs out here and you can come make some money. So he came out and moved to La Jolla. In fact , he rented a place that was owned by Bishop School , right on Draper , right on Draper Avenue , and then subsequently bought 2 or 3 other properties in La Jolla. In fact , at one point he owned like four pieces of property in Old La Jolla. But like most of the blacks that were there up through the 1960s and 70s even to the 80s , they didn't really know what they had. They didn't know the value of their property. You know , my father was the first black student body president. La Jolla High School in 1947 was all this excellent student was an all city football player track star. But imagine being at La Jolla High School in the 1940s and being the the student body president. That was a significant like thing at a time when there were still covenants. So , for example , if you were Jewish , they had a covenant when you came out of bird Rock before you stepped into La Jolla. It had a sign that said you were entering a covenant zone , and if you were Jewish , you were not allowed to buy in La Jolla. Even up through the 1950s , early 1960s. And blacks were not allowed to buy property across Pearl Street on up until the 1960s , late 1960s or early 1970s. My grandfather had a friend who was who actually quietly got the loan for him to buy the his last property on the other side of Pearl Street. And so it is a long history. And there was tremendous , you know , as a kid growing up , seeing all these old black folks , they would say , oh , you were one of these kids , you know , those kind of things. But it was a really beautiful , thriving community. There were a lot of Hispanics in the community as well. And there's only maybe 1 or 2 African-American families and and one Hispanic family that still have the original property that they had from back in that time. Most of them were deluded or bought off. In fact , the La Jolla newspaper wrote a big article about this many , many years ago about the disappearing black population. And , you know. So , yeah. Now you look down there , it's all yuppies and all redone with fancy condos and stuff. So it's really no longer the beautiful. No , the only thing that's still there is Prince Chapel , the church that my grandparents and great grandparents are still there , uh , right off Pearl Street. That's it. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , I mean , and tell me this , because you spent part of your childhood in La Jolla before moving to Lemon Grove and La mesa. Yeah.
S3: People rode horses on the streets. It was a very different reality. Wow.
S5: It was like that.
S3: Oh , it was like that. Seriously ? Very seriously. Island Federal Boulevard near College Grove was all like people riding horses , but but a lot of those people had never seen black people before. It was really interesting to be in a place. And this is like , okay , I'm going to date myself since like 1965 , 66. Okay. 67 and there they were. They had never , ever. And so the neighborhood was in where we moved to , there were about 5 or 6 black families , but most but but we were all my father was a was a bank vice president for a bank that was now part of B of a now security Pacific National Bank. There were doctors and lawyers and psychologists. So the blacks that were first came to that neighborhood were all professionals. And then , um , they had what was called white flight. So white folks went , oh , oh , oh , here , there goes the neighborhood and quietly started moving away and then sold their properties off to more , um , working class black families , which was a really interesting dynamic because the , the population of kids coming in were very different than the population of kids that that we were part of. You know , our parents expected us to go to , you know , to go to school and be respectable. And next group came in. You know , this is toward the civil rights movement. Time was not nearly there was a different group of kids , and they didn't really like us , and we didn't really like them because , you know , we had different raising properties that that caused that. But it was a very different place to grow up and a lot of racism. You know , people driving down the street would call you the N-word. I mean , it was a different world. Yeah.
S5: Yeah.
S1: Well , Sheree , you were part of a military family that came here in the 80s , right ? Correct.
S5:
S1: So tell us about your your upbringing and where you grew up.
S5: Um , so I grew up in when we first got here , I lived in Paradise Hills. I was really young. Um , well , I was really young growing up in the 80s , so I don't have too much memory of that. But by the time , like , 90s came in , I got a little older , and we lived in Paradise Hills. I just remember it being everything we did was black , to be honest. Like we still had the Martin Luther King parade that came down Imperial Avenue. It was in the parade. We had a lot of different , like the Cooper family would have their year round , you know , events. But I just remember everything my mom took us to. And then I ran track for the MLK Blasters. So everything in my world was black. But then now my kids here have a different experience here in like 2025 growing up.
S1: What did. You.
S5: You.
S1:
S5: But I think being older and like really looking at everything , I think people just kind of left. They moved away , they wanted something different , and it just kind of like we became more spread out and then everything , just like the Kendall Street Fair was a thing and it's not there anymore. Um , so I just looked at one day that the things that we used to do , we didn't do it anymore. And it was never like , okay , we're just doing something different now.
S1: Rick , you got something.
S3: To say just in conjunction with that. So when I was growing up , you had a lot of ocean View was like the place , right ? Everybody hung onto Ocean View and Imperial Gentry's barbershop was there. Huffman's barbecue was right there. You could eat. You could go get a go , get a hot link and go get your haircut. Right. And then all. Then what happens is they started building the freeways. So the freeways segmented the community. What , like Logan Heights was chopped up by the five freeway. The 94 freeway. They started breaking down these communities , which again caused for further , you know , for people to start moving further away. Um , and then they started moving into , like Lemon Grove , la mesa , Encanto , skyline , et al , which used to be predominantly white , became even Lincoln High School area. If you go back to the early 60s , late 50s was was very diverse. Um , and so it was the communities that started being segmented , and that's where to start. I think of the sort of breakdown of the community.
S1: Well , I got to bring you in here because speaking of the impact of these freeways , you know , last month you launched the exhibit San Diego's Last Neighborhoods , and it chronicles the story of historically black and Latino neighborhoods that were lost to freeways and redlining and other forces of displacement.
S6: So the San Diego Museum of Fine Art has a project called the Harlem Walk of Honor. And we were recreating the Savoy and the Cotton Club , and we were talking about , well , wait a minute , there's a Harlem of the West. And so when we came back from that , we started we went downtown and we started doing work with the augmented reality in Harlem of the West , and we met with the San Diego History Center to talk about that and to show how it might work. But it did. It grew , expanded into all these important Aspects of the change in San Diego , not only the Harlem of the West , but the area of of La Jolla that you mentioned. The bifurcation of communities by 805 and the 15 , the fight against 252 and uh , South crest , um , the changing of Market Street to Martin Luther King Boulevard and then taking it down again. All those things are chronicled in the exhibit , and you can go to the exhibit , you can see all these communities and you can see that , see what had happened and experience one of those , uh , those kinds of changes that made and what people did to to protest these changes. But it does encompass all of those things. So it's a really good historical walk through San Diego's black and brown neighborhoods.
S1: Well , and so that people know where can they see this exhibit ? And it's San Diego's lost neighborhoods that sort of last before or so.
S6: Okay.
S1: Okay.
S6: Um. That's something. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So what were some of the stories you folded into the Lost Neighborhoods exhibit that really stood out ? I know you really spoke to community members about this.
S6: Yeah , because I'm not grew up here. We really did rely on community members to have panel discussions and all the research because as we just started to work on just the idea of it , then we got together with UCSD students who , as their final exam , got involved in doing some of the research , and we were surprised at the amount of research and what was missing. That was the other thing because a lot of this information was gone. So we went through all the newspapers and all the TV stations and everything to try and gather this information. And we went to the neighborhoods , talked to people , got oral histories and all that , and some of that is part of the the exhibit. Especially through the augmented reality part. But that's how we kind of grew it. It just got it started to be very complex but very important.
S1: I would imagine the oral histories is a really important part of that , because sometimes our stories are not always told in publications or books or. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. When you talk to the people , for instance , who were dispersed by 8 or 5 going through Julius Creek whenever , I mean , these communities were devastated. I mean , right through the middle of it. But then , of course , there was also people fighting back when , for instance , in City Heights where the 15 was going to go and there's going to be like eight blocks , but they got down to one , they were going to 252 and was destroying their whole neighborhood , and they just totally got rid of that. So I'm proud of the communication and the people who fought back. But it did have an effect on relationships , families , everything like that. So it was it was very difficult for these communities to survive after the highways went through it.
S7: Can I think of that if you don't mind.
S3: Um , the church was was the key catalyst for for trying to protect the infrastructure. Uh , I remember Reverend Lockridge , S.M. Lockridge , who was well-known pastor , black pastor here , along with Reverend Charles Hampton from Bethel Baptist Church. And Martin Luther King came here and they hosted Martin , Doctor Martin Luther King here. And that was a tremendous thing. I remember my mother , I remember my mother talking about. And she actually went when they had this gathering. Um , but people didn't know that these prolific leaders. I mean , no one knew this history. Robert Kennedy was the night he got shot. We saw him the night he got shot. Bethel Baptist Church was at 28th and Clay. He came to 29th and Clay for a quick minute because he had to go up to the LA , to the ambassador , and we snuck out of church that night to go see him. But a lot of the stories you're talking about reside with the old black families in those churches , because if there are not many of them left anymore and are leaving , a lot of those churches have unfortunately been dispersed. But there's a rich history in from through the black church in San Diego , and there's still some of them out there. But those folks , again , are getting older and older. Um , but that would be something I think would be tremendous. Also , regarding UCSD , when they have Black History Month , when I taught there , um , I remember going , I didn't even know where the exhibit was. I happened to go downstairs to go check out something in technology and had this exhibit for blacks in La Jolla , and the curator was there and I was looking she goes , oh , you liked the exhibit ? I said , yeah , I said , there's my dad , there's my uncle , there's my grandmother. And she looked at me like. Like what ? Like. And I was like , yeah , those are my family and relatives and friends I grew up with.
S6: You know , the same thing happens at the exhibit when I was when we're at the exhibit , when people are walking through like , oh , there's so-and-so and there's so there's one and oh , wow , I saw something. So it got a lot of that happens when you go and see the exhibit. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. It's special.
S3: It's just amazing. I just I wish the younger people this is where a lot of it gets lost. Is that the young , you know , having young people who have a sense of an identity of and pride in the black history of , of San Diego is , you know , part of it needs to be taught. And , you know , because if it's not , it's not if we're not taught , we don't know. And if we leave things out of history , even the history we're taught , even in our communities , then we do a disservice to our kids because they don't have any black consciousness , because they don't see it and they don't understand it , and how to have that sense of pride. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. Well , you know , it's funny because you get questions about what to do and where to go and what. And so I'm so happy that we have black San Diego here that because finally you can tell people what to do and where to go. Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S5: You know some of the history. You know a lot more than if you're just come here. It's not like you go to Atlanta. You're like , I know I can go down this street and see black people. I know I can go to this neighborhood. So when you come to San Diego , you're like , where are the black people ? Where's the black culture ? Where's the history ? Like , you guys have no history , no nothing. And it's like we do. And so that's why Black San Diego comes into play of like , hey , go to the museum and see what exactly is going on , or hey , go to this event and learn a little bit more. We just did a segment with Yasmeen from Channel ten news and she just said , we talked about , um , the we found a directory from the 1960s and it had 200 black owned businesses within a two mile radius , and a lot of people didn't even know that that even existed. And so I think it's important that we constantly have those conversations and put them out there.
S1: We're continuing the conversation about efforts to build an even greater sense of black community in 2025. Midday edition is back after the break. Welcome back. Thanks for sticking around to this is KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman , so we're talking about the disappearance and displacement of San Diego's once thriving black community and efforts to revitalize it. I'm here with Rick Epps , political science professor at Imperial Valley College , along with JD Finney , executive director at the San Diego African American Museum of Fine Art , and Sheri Jones , founder of the nonprofit Black San Diego. Welcome back again to you all. Sheree , To pick up where we left off. I mean , your group , Black San Diego , puts together a lot of events to help people connect in the community.
S5: And I remember going to an event that I would be the only one in there , and I felt away. I felt like I had to be somebody different. I felt like I had to beg for a seat at the table. So I told her I had this idea that I wanted to put together an event for our community , because if I felt this way , other people probably felt this way too. So we're gonna have one event. It was going to be a networking event. We had over 100 people show up and they said , you got to keep going. So here we are nine years later , and we just kept it going. And it has grew to this thing that we didn't even know it was going to grow into. And it it works and it just really brings our community together. We don't have a black neighborhood , so we essentially created an online black neighborhood.
S1: That's very interesting. Yeah. Rick. And you , you you hear that ? And you're like , wow.
S3: That's really it. I mean , that's fascinating. I'm really. I mean , that's that's so wonderful to hear in the younger generation trying to bring back a sense of history to , to , to the black community here and to the young people , particularly because they need they they don't even know they need it , but they need it. Yeah.
S7: Yeah.
S1: Well , and Sheree , I'm curious because I want to know more.
S5: So we do one a quarter to bring a lot of value. We also do our yearly event called Dago Eats which is during Black History Month in February. So that will be our next event that's coming up. Save the date will be coming out soon. Um , but that is an event where it's kind of almost like a candle street fair. Um , and so we have over 50 vendors that come in with food. You pretty much can buy any and everything black. We have all black vendors. We you can come in there and you just bring a chair , you just pop up and you spend the whole entire day with us. We have a kids corner , a jumper , face painting , all the kids corner stuff is free , and it really is just about taking whatever we did online and just putting it in person for a day , getting people offline , pretty much. And then we have our B6 program , which really supports black owned businesses. We noticed during Covid , a lot of people could not get grant or funding or anything because they didn't have the proper paperwork. So we essentially help business owners in the community get exactly what they need. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , and back to my initial question of where can you find a good plate of soul food ? You might just find it a day , go eat.
S5: You can find it a day. Go east. We have everybody there , everyone that you've ever probably wanted to taste and didn't get a chance to go. They are always there.
S6: I attended , it was fantastic. Yes.
S5: Yes. Thank you.
S1:
S5: I feel like it brings us like together. It lets us know what's actually going on in the community. I think that being a military town in a very transient town where people are constantly going in and out , they come here. Like , where can I get a haircut ? Where can I get where can I take my kid for daycare ? Where are the best schools with diversity ? So you see one extreme to the next. But I think that just seeing those things happening , it really makes. We don't get paid from this. So it really makes our heart. It's a labor of love , and it really makes us feel good that we're able to do something for not just the community , but like our community. Um , and personal stories. There are so many people , like , run up to us and be like , aren't you Miss Black San Diego ? I'm like , my name is Sri. Guess. Um , but they're like , man , my business grew just because of you. And we do a survey of here for the business owners. And these business owners are making like six figures easily just by being connected to the page. So that is really important for us to get them from the hustle business to just actually a business that's thriving. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well. Getty. The San Diego African-American Museum of Fine Art has done so much to help preserve our art and history and cultural identity. Talk a bit about why that's so important.
S6: It's probably the most important. We we find that the culture has been less and less , if you will. When I first got here , 93 first there was black radio station , and a lot of that is just not there anymore. And so , um , our the museum and our board , we want to bring the best of art and culture to San Diego. And that's been our , our that's what we want to do is to bring the best that we can , the best art , the best music like that. And also we are managers of what's called the Black Cultural District. The city has designated that area nine blocks on the Imperial as the Black Cultural District , with the museum as manager. But we have a committee of community members who guide that and give and advise how things will happen there. And so that's really working out well. It's our we're into our third year of that and a lot more to come. That's going to be I call it Tony Tiger. Great great. We can do wonderful things. And it started to be great. All right.
S1: I love. Starting.
S7: Starting. Wow.
S1: That's awesome. And so tell me I mean what are you working on next. Can you.
S6: We have a number of things both locally and internationally okay. Locally we coming up. We have two exhibits up right now. One called the clothing store at Mesa College. And we have another one , as I just mentioned , with the Lost Neighborhoods at San Diego History Center. We also have coming up our keepers of the culture , where we honor those people who have kept black culture alive. I think you've hosted that once for us. Yes , that's in February as well. We have done an annual music fest that we do and a number of other. Number of other exhibits that are about to come up.
S1: All right. Well , you know , the the exhibit we spoke about San Diego's lost neighborhoods. It really tells a story , the story of resilience. And I'm curious how you all are thinking about the resilience of San Diego's black community. Um , especially right now , Rick.
S3: You know , it's interesting because because it is so diluted. Right. And like , I think the last remnant is kind of off Kelton Road up on the hill there. Right. That's like so I still have a lot of friends that live up there and off Logan Avenue. There's still a few , um , but you see it happening. I'm going to use the black church again , because I've seen this resilience in the black church of trying to create a sense of community and really trying to modernize the black experience. I think it's the history is the most essential part , but figuring out what it means to be black in San Diego in 2025 and what that looks like going forward. How do we grow ourselves , especially in the midst of such tremendous economic pressures ? The cost , you know , what's driving people away ? The cost of living. You know , it's not affordable. It's why a lot of black families left. They left the scene and went , you know , wherever they went , whether it's on Riverside and , you know , Las Vegas in different places. But I think that's this the idea of what both of you have done is really , to me , the essential part of of this , this resurgence , this reawakening of San Diego. And how do , how do we get that message out further , even at places like San Diego State , I taught here 22 years. And , you know , I took it upon myself knowing I was the only black faculty a lot of these students would ever see to try to enlighten them. You know , in my chapters on civil rights and civil liberties , on on the inequities of not just black folks , but , you know , other groups , too. So , you know , in terms of how we incorporate , I think resilience comes from what you all are doing. I think getting them politically reawakened is really important. So maybe part of the dialogues means having people like myself or others who are in the political know to be able to help , you know , get people to understand what the real issues are and explain to them why they need to get out and vote. Because typically , you know , we don't we're not good at voting so well. So being able to get people to be the drivers of their own reality , that's how you bring pressure to bear on the people who make decisions every day about your viability.
S1: Well , Rick , let me ask you this because in the past , one of the factors that's sort of dispersed the black community are policy decisions that have been made.
S3: So for the black community , it's really assessing where first where black folks are , right ? Where are we residing in numbers that can that have significance ? And then in the process of that saying , okay , so is this an area that's being attacked so we can figure out how to fight back in those neighborhoods where we see black , where we have black , significant black influence that are being minimized because the way the politics are set up and then also holding city council accountable , you know , it's an accountability thing for the people who represent us in this district. You know , the guy that you know , Leon Williams , who was the first black city council member in San Diego in 69 , and then George Stevens , who was another city council member. These people worked hard in their communities to kind of get them politically awakened. We need to do that again , and we need to make sure that we protect and really educate those those areas to really get the young people and the people who are responsible in those communities to see themselves as being a vital part and to hold on to their bit of , for lack of a better word , a bit of power and influence in those communities. That's what I would suggest. Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S6: Make sure you talk with your politicians. And as you just mentioned , and to be aware of something when you mention 50. I mean , that's that could really affect us without. So you need to have knowledge of what's going on. You can't put your head in the sand these days because too much is going on when you wake up every morning. So you just need to be aware and be very communicating and pay attention to Black San Diego. Exactly.
S1: Exactly. Because that's this is where it's at now. Shery. And I mean , what do you think can be done to to pass the torch to the next generation ? Because you've really kind of picked up the baton here and , and created this online community.
S5: We definitely need to start , well , not start continue having conversations and letting people know. Making people aware of exactly what's going on. What the history is. So that way it doesn't repeat itself that we do a lot better. I think the political aspect is key. Putting the right people in office. I live in the fourth district , and I know that it's getting sticky right now and I'm just paying attention to it. But I think the people that are in the lead , those leadership leadership positions , need to pay attention to understand that. We're also looking at how they're conducting themselves and carrying themselves. I think the real estate aspect is key as well. I think just being a real estate broker , I see everybody just so quick to sell their grandparents house and like leave or , you know , like you said , it's getting too expensive or they don't know what they don't know and I don't have a trust I'm going to probate. And so those are the things that I like to talk about , because I think all of those things are really important and they'll go hand in hand. So that way it's not like we'll have to leave because I can't afford it or I don't know anything , I have to go. So I think those are just conversations that we have to continue having with everyone.
S3: Especially the other part of that in conjunction is the lack of viable financing for homeownership here. There are doors there. Very there are glass doors for people of color , particularly African-American. When you go to buy , want to finance a home that are very subtle but are very much directed there. And that's also part of this equation that people don't talk about. And that's it's so significant in terms of this process and trying to hold on to and have people not run away from the city because it's too expensive. Is how do we provide a mechanism for people to be able to still afford to stay here and have a comfortable life when the cost of living is exorbitant ? My parents house over , which is on the border of Lemon Grove and Cano , right right there in that border. You couldn't touch it for under almost $1 million. How do you even get started ? Like , it's just insane what we've created. But part of that infrastructure is what is causing the dissolution of the black community in our in our in our city. So.
S1: Well , Sheree , you touched on something really important , I think , and that's , um , you know , homeownership and being able to pass family wealth through real estate down to the next generation.
S5: If a trust is out of reach , you definitely look at like a transferred upon deed or death upon transfer. That means that when they pass , the deed will go to the next kin or whoever they designate from there. But I think also too , was like , we're missing the family , uh , meeting. A lot of times people aren't having those conversations with their family. And so when they pass , it's everybody's fighting at that point. And it's like , it doesn't have to be that way. So I think it is starting with a trust , sitting down with somebody that you trust an attorney and getting it all worked out , and then have a conversation with your family of when I pass , this is what I want. I don't want you guys to fight. This is how I'm setting it up , and I feel like that will eliminate a lot of things from there.
S3: Can I also add to that that I can't tell you the number of black fans ? My grandparents , my mother's parents were in Pacific Beach in a black and little black community. That was right there. And I can tell you that half the families in that community died , and the state took everything , because a lot of black folks don't have any understanding of the process of being able to hand your property off. And they just , you know , all the misinformation or all the things they've got in their head , lack of knowledge. And then all of a sudden it's gone and it's gone to the state instead of , you know , even providing it as mechanism to someone else in the black community. Okay.
S1: Okay. Well , so a quick fire around before we close out.
S6: I mean , just even this conversation helps. But as I look around and I see some of the things that we're doing and other organizations are doing , I. I'm hopeful.
S1: All right. Sherry.
S5: Um , the same , I think just being around like the community and just the leaders in the community and see what they're doing and supporting their efforts , I think that is , like you said , like beautiful , and I'm glad to be a part of it.
S1: All right. Rick.
S3: Yeah I agree. Like being here. Like , really I just feel uplifted sitting here listening to both of you. Seriously , I feel very honored because I had never met either one of you. And just hearing these things that , you know , you're busy in your life and you don't know and you're going , wow , they have this really , this is going on there. So I think that that's really an essential part of it. I also think that getting other people who don't look like us exposed to us , so they learn that , you know , their ignorance or their stereotypes of how they perceive the black community can be diminished by virtue of their experiences and letting them come in and say , hey , come and try our soul food. Come in , come in , come in here what we do and see what we do and experience that I think is the essence of the richness of it. To see the diversity that we all represent in our experiences. I think that's where that's my hope. And , you know , getting the young people more inspired in having a sense of pride is what I would love to see this mature and grow.
S6: One of the things that I'm proud of is we're part of the diaspora as well. We that exhibit that I talked about in New York opened on August 15th in Harlem , the Harlem Walk of Honor.
S1: We got to leave it there because we got a wrap. I thank you all so much. We can always continue this conversation. I've been speaking with Rick Epps , political science professor at Imperial Valley College , Gary Finney , executive director at the San Diego African American Museum of Fine Art , and Sheri Jones , founder of the nonprofit Black San Diego. And you all , thank you so much for joining. If you missed anything , you can download KPBS Midday Edition on all podcast apps. I'm Jade Hindman. We'll talk again tomorrow. Until then , make it a great day on purpose , everyone.
