S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. A new state law targeting sex trafficking has authorities arresting sex buyers. New reporting from KPBS looks into how that law is playing out in San Diego and who it's impacting most. So.
S2: They can appeal the bills and how they can survive. They need to eat. They don't have any other options.
S1: Then last week , San Diego County fired its behavioral health director just as employee misconduct records were released. We get the latest on that story. Plus , a magazine publishes its ode to San Diego's artists. It's coming up on KPBS roundtable. A new state law makes it illegal to loiter in an area for the purpose of buying sex. It went into effect in January this year , but data show that here in San Diego , police are mostly citing Latino and black men for the crime. And it's bringing up questions about racial bias and who is really targeted by the new law. Joining me to talk more is Katie Hyson. She's racial justice and social equity reporter here at KPBS. Hey , Katie.
S3: Hi , Andrew.
S1: So your story begins with a new billboard. It's on Main Street in Barrio Logan for listeners who haven't seen it. How would you describe that?
S3: So it has this big warning. Buyers of sex beware across the top , and it describes the new law. And on the left it has a man's hands cuffed. He appears white. And on the right there's a pale kind of faceless woman huddling in the shadows.
S1: And you kind of say that this billboard might not really reflect what's happening here in San Diego. What different story did you find from the data?
S3: Yeah , there's a couple ways. What I found during my reporting kind of contrasts with those images. The first is that they're overwhelmingly citing Latino and Black men for this. So of the 95 citations in arrests through July , only 12 of them were white men. And that's despite studies that have shown there's no connection between someone's race and the likelihood of them being a sex client. All kinds of people across all kinds of demographics purchase sex. The second is how the woman's portrayed. It's more what I typically see in ads against trafficking this , um , you know , kind of powerless appearing woman that I think tugs on our instincts to rescue. But this new law doesn't target trafficking specifically. So there are non trafficked sex workers trying to survive that are being impacted by this law and potentially harmful ways. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I want to talk more about this new law. AB 379. Can you tell us more about , you know , the goal and what it was like looking to achieve here?
S3: Yeah , there used to be a law similar to this years ago that also targeted the workers. It was illegal to loiter with the intent to sell sex , and that was repealed back in 2022. But prosecutors and law enforcement went back to the legislature and said , hey , we don't have the tools we need now to go after sex trafficking. And so this AB 379 , it has many different pieces to the legislation , and most of those are more directly related to trafficking , especially minors. But it also includes this new law we talk about in the story against loitering with the intent to buy sex. And that's targeting clients regardless of whether the people they're trying to buy from are adults that are working of their own will. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. So , you know , can you tell us a little bit , you know , how big of an issue is street prostitution in San Diego?
S3: Yeah , obviously , I think the sex industry , like anything that's criminalized , is really hard to measure accurately and currently. But of course , street prostitution exists everywhere. And San Diego is a big city. It's a port city , a military city , a border city , and a city with a very high cost of living. So it's not a surprise to me that the industry is prominent here.
S1: And you , you know , looked into this data. I think you have kind of like a map in your story. There's a lot of interesting findings there. You took the data to to the San Diego Police Department. How did they respond.
S3: As far as the data itself , they say , look , this enforcement is based on the actions of these vehicles driving around in , in this area that they're enforcing this law in. And they say , like , we don't know the identities of the drivers before we pull them over. We learn someone's race after we've already initiated the stop. So this pattern is not intentional. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Um. You know , why do. Why do they think this change in approach. You know , focusing on the intent to buy is so important.
S3: I spoke with the lieutenant who's in charge of the department's enforcement , and he sees trafficking in street prostitution as going hand in hand. He doesn't think any street prostitution is really fully voluntary. And so he thinks in order to end trafficking , they have to rid San Diego of street prostitution. And that cutting down on street prostitution makes the city less appealing to traffickers. He also says this new law that allows them to basically stop people before they've actually done anything is a much more efficient use of their resources. He says it's much easier to bring these cases to court. Um , I will say critics , critics warn before the law passed that that the vagueness of that language of intent would open the door to racial bias , whether explicit or implicit.
S1: Um , you know , for your story , you spoke with one local sex worker , Jamie Uranga. What did she tell you? What did she have to say about this? This law? And how was it impacting?
S3: Um , she did almost , like , laugh when I shared kind of the demographics of the data. She said that that doesn't reflect their client base. All kinds of people by sex. This isn't specific to black or brown communities. Um , but she also said this law by targeting street prostitution , specifically that it targets San Diego's most vulnerable workers. Street sex workers tend to charge the least for their services , even though it's often more dangerous than operating out of a motel or finding your clients online. And so people who sell on the street are often more desperate for income. They're there to survive and their business has slowed since this new law. She says , and she thinks because clients are scared. But traditional employment often isn't accessible to people who are working the street. Here's how she phrased that.
S2: They want to find a job , but they've been discriminated , so they cannot pay the bills and how they cannot survive. They need to eat. They don't have any other options.
S1: I'm wondering , Katie , what does this new law mean for the safety of sex workers? You mentioned how it's kind of changing how things work , but. Yeah , what about their safety?
S3: That's been a big concern. Critics were warning the legislature even before the law was passed about this , um , that this this pressure , this fear on clients that they're going to be arrested , um , doesn't allow for ordinary precautions that workers might otherwise take. I spoke with an attorney with the ACLU , Manush Kandel , and she gave this example.
S4: They cannot take the kinds of safety precautions that they need to , because their clients are worried they're going to get arrested and are saying , get in the car , get in the car. So they might not have the time to check. Oh , does the car open from the inside? Does it have a handle? Am I going to be trapped. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. So kind of removing some of those. Yeah. That time to to evaluate safety. So you know in her view what would be a better approach to to improving safety.
S3: Yeah I'll say first I'll say she really sees this as an issue of bodily autonomy too. Consenting adults should be able to buy and sell sex services as a matter of just control over their own bodies. But she says if the city's goal is to reduce the sex industry in the city. Research shows the most effective way is a public health approach. So providing sex workers with housing , mental health care and paid job training , not policing and kind of in contrast to the police lieutenant , she thinks the difference between trafficked and non trafficked sex work really matters , and that this law doesn't target traffickers. It targets potential buyers. And so she gave this hypothetical.
S4: When we see trafficking in other industries , let's say like in agriculture or the garment industry , we don't say , oh , we're going to outlaw the manufacture of clothing , but we're going to arrest people who are purchasing things at the gap. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. So really kind of reframing the story there. Katie , you know , on your beat , you cover all sorts of stories just in this overlapping , you know , racial justice social equity covers. You've covered so much ground. Um , and this story , you know , is at the intersection of those issues. But I'm wondering , how did you approach centering the perspective and the concerns around sex workers , as you did in this story?
S3: This , um , story was really a full circle moment for me. Um , I don't think I've ever told you this , but long before I got into journalism , I did nonprofit work assisting sex workers in Florida , and the media coverage I saw of them really infuriated me. If I can give you an example. Yeah. Um , we had a big , a big political convention coming to my city , and the city decided it needed to so-called clean the streets before the politicians came. And so they did sweeps and they arrested all the women I worked with. And local news outlets just ran the mug shots of these women and a list of their charges. And it totally flattened these vibrant , funny , full lived women down to their criminal record. But it also infuriated me because there was a real story happening. The news wasn't covering , which was that the convention brought in such a boom in demand for sex services that workers were traveling up from Miami to fill the void in supply. I saw temporary tents with ATMs go up and and this was while the women I worked with were behind bars. And I remember thinking , someone has to cover this issue and these workers differently. Why aren't they talking with the people most impacted by laws and this enforcement? They're really missing the story. And so it was so meaningful for me. More than a decade later , to hold the microphone up to Jaime Uranga and let her speak for herself and her fellow workers to not just include law enforcement perspective , but these voices that we just have not listened to.
S1: Yeah , I'm really thanks for sharing that. I mean , you know , I think this is a topic that can be hard to talk about , right? It's , you know , this can be like this taboo subject. What do you think people misunderstand about sex work and the issues around it , especially with this added experience you had that I didn't know? Yeah.
S3: Yeah. Everything. Everything. I've rarely ever seen an accurate portrayal of sex , work or sex workers in the media , whether it's fiction or nonfiction. And part of that is that the industry itself is so vast and varied. There's so many different types of sex work and types of workers who are full people with lives like you and me , who are varied and complex. And I think they get flattened down to these stereotypes by people who really have no knowledge , who've never spoken with them one on one as people instead of just perpetrators or victims. And I think that's in large part because what you said that the industry itself is taboo. We don't like to see it or talk about it. And I think that's doing a a disservice to these workers , but also a disservice to ourselves to just be living with these misunderstandings.
S1: I've been speaking with Katie Hyson. She covers racial justice and social equity here at KPBS. And you can find her story at KPBS. Katie , thanks so much for being here. and great to see you.
S3: Thanks for having me.
S1: Up next , the county's behavioral health director was let go last week just as employee misconduct reports were released. We'll hear more after the break. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Last week , the county of San Diego announced the departure of its behavioral health director , Nadia Navarra. The announcement came just minutes after they released employee misconduct records. But the story goes back more than a year to when Voice of San Diego sued the county for those records. We're learning more about what's in those documents. And joining me with the latest is Lisa Halberstam. She is an investigative reporter with Voice of San Diego. Hey , Lisa , welcome back to roundtable.
S5: Glad to be here.
S1: So I'm wondering if you can take us back to last March. Tell us how this , you know , this all got started. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. So , uh , Luke Bergman , who was then the director of behavioral health , was leaving his county job pretty abruptly. And reporters like me , you know , we usually want to try to figure out what's going on with that kind of something more , right? And so I made what's a pretty normal request for reporters to make , which was for the previous two years. So from March 2023 to March 2025 , what were the behavioral health employee misconduct records? Was there anything there that might be telling? Um , and so I put that request in , and within a few weeks , the county said , we don't think these records should be released. Um , you know , there were some back and forth about whether there were records to be released. Uh , Voice of San Diego disagreed with that call , and we sued.
S1: So , yeah , this lawsuit eventually led to the county releasing these records by court order last week. Tuesday , August 25th. Um , so you get these documents last Tuesday. You've been waiting for over a year at this point. What happened next?
S5: Well , I just have to give people a sense of what it was like to be sitting at my desk , talking to another source about something entirely different , and all of a sudden my phone just starts buzzing like crazy. And I'm seeing all these emails come in. And I realized , one , the county has just made an announcement that their behavioral health director has departed , and now I've got about 80 records that I need to review. So the county , they put out this announcement , um , that the behavioral health director was departing. They needed to make some changes. And they , in their statement , decried sexism and racism. But they didn't say , what's what is the misconduct that we're talking about here. And so I got to work reviewing a lot of records. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So , I mean , a whirlwind of a day , it sounds like that was for you. But you mentioned the county statement. I mean , did they give any indication you mentioned some comments about race and other concerns , but , you know , how much did they say about her departure at that time.
S5: In the statement? They really didn't give any details. They just they hinted , obviously , by saying , you know , we decry racism and sexism , uh , that , that maybe there was something related to that that might be contained in these records. And so I really felt like , okay , the pressure is on. I've got to read all of these records as soon as I possibly can. Okay.
S1: Okay. So yeah , tell us more about , you know , what's in some of these misconduct reports. I mean , you wrote about a comment from one county analyst who was later promoted. Can you tell us about that?
S5: Yes , and that was the first one I was able to get through in full. So in February 2025 , according to this county investigation , an administrative analyst for the county was in a dye training that was happening online , and apparently she didn't realize that she was unmuted. And she stated , according to the investigation , I thought this wasn't going to be political , but what do you expect when it's taught by a bunch of black people , which , unsurprisingly , deeply offended a lot of the people in that training? There were about 75 people who were attending. She got kicked out of the training , and then an investigation was launched of what happened here. Ultimately , when it was completed in May 2025 , it's unclear what the county did. You know , in terms of , you know , did they discipline her? They're not saying. But what I later found was that she was promoted later in the year to be a program coordinator , which raises a lot of questions.
S1: Yeah , yeah. And that's that's not all you found. That was like one example. But there's also reports involving the county psychiatric hospital. Yes.
S5: Yes. So there were two cases of sexual harassment. One involved a housekeeper who was harassing a nurse. Um , and then another involved a guard that was allegedly following a staffer that they had once dated.
S1: Um , I want to , you know , there's a so that's at the county. That was all at the county's psychiatric hospital , but there's another county health care facility that comes up in your reporting. And I'm going to dig into that. The edge , more skilled nursing facility in Santee. Can you tell us a little bit about that? I mean , what types of patients do they serve?
S5: So these are extremely vulnerable patients who often have complex health conditions. So they may have both physical and behavioral health conditions they often need. You know we're talking about people that need 24 hour care. Um , and it is a you know , it is a facility that's in Santee , um , that's been run by the county for a very long time. It's the county facility. Um , this is actually the the area that I am most concerned about as a reporter. I would say , uh , in terms of the the facilities at play here , the records that I obtained showed that there was a staffer that was using offensive terms about black patients and workers. There were two instances where literally sex tapes were being shown to or passed along to different employees. There was a food supervisor who stole some food items. Um , and just I would say , you know , also just a lot of cultural issues that are very clear , um , in this facility , um , there was also a sexual harassment case where a secretary was being without her consent , massaged by another worker , and he actually , like , hugged her from the front and the back to try to crack her back. And other employees witnessed this. So I really have a lot of questions , frankly , about how the workers and patients are doing there. Um , and I'll just like broadcast here on this broadcast that I absolutely want to hear from Egmore staff and patients and families of those patients to hear how things are going. Um , I'd like to do some more reporting and learn more here , and also learn more about what the county is doing to address these issues , because I think it's really important to say , you know , I , I asked the county a lot of questions about the changes that it may be making and they , you know , basically just spoke at very high level about working on hiring practices , trying to make sure that more of these cases are brought up to the executive staff. But I don't understand the specific actions that they took to address these specific cases after they happened. And I think that those are questions that anyone listening would have. You know , you promoted this one worker after after she made some statements that offended a lot of people. And then in these other instances , you literally had sex tapes being passed around. You had sexual harassment happening in the open. What is being done to protect employees and also make sure that these cultural issues and other issues aren't affecting patient care.
S1: So , I mean , you're saying that you mentioned that the county hasn't really said too much about , you know , those questions you're asking. But , you know , we don't I mean , these are really concerning , you know , stories you're bringing up here. And I'm curious , like , how have you know , have you heard anything from county employees about how they're feeling about , you know , some of these stories and what's happening in their workplace?
S5: So I have been having some conversations. I want to have more of them. I'm not ready to talk about some of what I'm hearing just yet , because I have to protect my sources. Um , what I will say is I thought it was really compelling. During a Board of Supervisors meeting this week , a couple staff from Egmore came and spoke , and they invited the chief administrative officer to come and talk to workers and asked that , you know , workers not be , um , you know , in any way , uh , you know , basically that workers be protected from any kind of retaliation for speaking up. And they were just imploring the county to involve workers in discussions about how to make these things better. Uh , and I would strongly argue to those workers that , uh , unfortunately , sometimes sunshine is the best disinfectant. And I would love to elevate their voices in terms of the discussion around how we can improve things , um , for workers and possibly patients at these facilities.
S1: So , you know , still a lot more to come here. You know , I want to take it back to the now former behavioral health services director , Nadia Rivera. What has she said about her departure?
S5: She is just devastated and just shocked. She had been at the county for more than 20 years , and , uh , she has said. And her attorney has said to me , uh , in the last 24 hours that , um , they're still looking at their legal options and investigating what they might do. So there may be a lawsuit from her , uh , against the county. Um , she , uh , through her attorney , um , told the Union Tribune that she was not given specific reasons for her firing. She was just told that , you know , her conduct and judgment were inconsistent with the standards expected. Um , but what she told me is that she felt that she really always worked to make it an inclusive and equitable workplace. Um , and so she's really troubled by , um , the subtext here that , that she was somehow involved in these cases. I think it's also just really important to state here. So my request covered the prior two years , and I made this request in March 2025. Nadia Provera did not become acting director of the department until April 2025 , and only one of the investigations , the one involving the racist comments that were made during the day. Training was completed during the time that she was acting director , so the prior director was Luke Bergman , as I mentioned earlier.
S1: She was director for several years.
S5: And I have a lot of questions for Luke Bergman. He has not returned my messages. I'll keep trying to reach out , but I still just have a lot of questions about what level of involvement Nadja Provera had in these cases. Her attorney is saying she wasn't involved in these cases.
S1: Well , a lot more to come , I'm sure. Lisa , I really appreciate you catching us up on on the latest here. I've been speaking with Lisa Halberstadt. She's a senior investigative reporter with the Voice of San Diego. Lisa , thanks so much.
S5: Thanks for having me.
S1: So we just got a window into how journalists often get access to sensitive information for their stories. That process often begins with a public records request , and it can be a little complicated , sometimes lengthy , but it's an important process for investigative journalism. Voice of San Diego's Will Hansberry is years of firsthand experience with that process. He recently covered a court decision that may change how these requests are handled in the future , and we thought now might be a good time to chat about it. Will , welcome back to the show.
S6: Thanks for having me , Andrew.
S1: So we just heard from your colleague Lisa Halberstam about , you know , some of the challenges she faced in obtaining these misconduct reports from the county. And I was hoping you could just help us better understand how this all works. How would you explain a public records request to someone who's never really heard of it?
S6: Yeah , it's the kind of term your eyes could just glaze over when you hear it. But a public records request is something that every citizen in the state of California , and pretty much every state in the country has a right to make of their public officials. The mayor , um , you know , the county board of supervisors , the police , the people who are in charge of air quality. You can ask for their emails , you can ask for the reports they've written , and some information has to be redacted and held back , like personal information. You can't get that stuff. Yeah , but it's literally written into the California Constitution that you have a right to see these records. And we , of course , use them all the time as reporters. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And I want to talk more about that. I'm wondering if you can point to some examples over , you know , you've been involved in so many investigations. You know , how have they played out in your reporting?
S6: You know , a big probably the biggest public records request I made was for I was looking into doctors who'd been writing vaccine exemptions for school kids. And so basically these doctors were writing a note saying these kids didn't need a vaccine. And the concern was that a lot of these notes were getting written not based on medical science , not because the child really needed an exemption. I made a public records request and I was able to get documents. No children's information on them again. But , um , and it showed that you had a single doctor in San Diego writing nearly half of all the exemptions for all school kids. So she was like this exemption factory , and she was writing them for a lot of reasons that didn't align with medical science. And that story just blew up. You know , they were it got covered in England. Like it got covered all over the country. And then state legislators wrote a new law and passed it here in California to crack down on people turning their doctors office into a vaccine exemption factory , basically. So that's just one example. There are thousands of like the kind of records we're seeking and we can get our hands on that can bring great change to our society.
S1: And on that just example you mentioned , um , you know , would there have been any other route for you to have gotten that information? Like what? You know , how did that really kind of open up the the story for you?
S6: 100% , yes. You know , it was , uh , without documents. In that case , I don't ever think I could have done it so often. Uh , people don't want you to find out certain things , but when somebody's written it down , sometimes the public records law can can be your friend and get you that info.
S1: All right , so let's talk about this lawsuit on public records. Voice of San Diego recently lost this years long legal battle here on on public records.
S6: We did.
S1: You filed you filed against the San Diego Unified School District. What was that suit looking to change?
S6: Um , you know , we felt like San Diego Unified was not getting us records , quote , promptly. Um , which is what the Constitution requires , that government agencies deliver records promptly. Sometimes it was taking them years to fully fulfill our requests. And the bottom line about this decision is that the judge found that in some cases , agencies can take years or months to deliver records instead of weeks or days. And that the definition of prompt can be subjective. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And what are some of the factors that they pointed to that would change this definition of prompt. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. They gave a whole menu and you know that. That's why we felt it was important to write about this. Basically , they said that the size and the scope of the records request should be considered. Um. Fair enough. You know , some people make records requests that are really going fishing. Maybe they're very broad. You know , I want every email with the word budget in it or something like that. Um , but , uh , they also said that the size of the agency could be considered , um , and that how many employees are dedicated to , um , fulfilling these public records requests could be considered. So , you know , it's kind of a recipe for broad request. Small agency gets lots of records requests , only has one person dedicated to getting the records. They can now show up in court and point to this decision and say , well , you know , we're actually being prompt based on what this previous court case said , even though it's four and a half years and you still haven't got your records.
S1: And I know this is bringing up you know , you've concerns about how this might play out. Um , but I just wanted to , you know , ask , what would you say to someone who might say , you know what? So what if requests takes longer? Like , how does that impact ultimately the greater public.
S6: You know , um , delay. Um , delay can be a huge problem. Delay can be the same thing as being denied in some cases. Right. If if the if it if this is something. The.
S1: The.
S6: Clock run out the clock. Yeah. Exactly. If we need to know about something this current mayor is doing and they don't fill the records request until another mayor is in office. The record is as good as meaningless. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Um , so just to be clear , though , um , you don't actually have to be a journalist , you know , say , at a major publication to make a public public records request , right?
S6: No , no , not at all. And , you know , I want everyone to know this. I want all the listeners to know this , right? We all send a lot of money to the government to do work on our behalf , and we all want them to be doing a really good job. And the Public Records law allows us to have visibility into what a good job they're doing or bad job. And so anyone can make a public records request. Send an email to your council office , say , consider this an official public records request , and ask for the emails between your council member and a certain developer you don't like , or something like that , or you know how many potholes have been fixed recently. You know the world is your oyster in terms of what you ask for. But if the document exists and they have it and it doesn't have private information in it , they have to give it to you by law. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. So will I just want to kind of take it back to you , you know in your role as an investigative journalist , how might this decision change how you and others go about your work.
S6: Well , you know , I think it forces us to be narrow on our request when we can. Um , which is maybe a good thing. Um , you know , um , but I think the scary thing is that we may have a lot of agencies trying to delay producing records because of this decision. When the decision got made , it wasn't , quote , published. So that so it wasn't legally binding. A bunch of agencies all of a sudden asked for it to be published because they wanted it to be legally binding. So I think that really tells you something that , like the county of San Diego and these other people reached out to the court and said , please publish this decision. And I think what that means is they're going to in the future , they're going to come into court and they're going to say , we got 5000 records requests this year. We got 50 from Voice of San Diego. We got two people dedicated to this. We're being as prompt as we can. Your honor , and , you know , we're really worried that we're not going to be able to get records in a timely way. Like Lisa was just talking about , you know , in a way where it can really make a difference.
S1: Well , well , I know this is kind of something that's sort of hard to unravel. You know , for folks , it's kind of a little insider baseball , but I really appreciate you kind of taking the time to kind of explain it , um , in a real way for folks. I've been speaking with Will Hansberry. He's assistant editor and co-writer of The Politics Report and Voice of San Diego. Will. Thanks again.
S6: Thanks , Andrew.
S1: Coming up , how San Diego Magazine is honoring San Diego artists in its September issue. This is KPBS roundtable. Stay tuned. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. San Diego magazine's September issue is out in this month. The magazine celebrating San Diego artists , from painters and photographers to musicians and writers. And it comes as the local arts community faces serious challenges. From a depleted city arts budget to recent layoffs at local museums. So today , we want to talk more about San Diego's arts scene and what it means to the fabric of our city. I'm joined now by this issue's editor , Aaron Belfer. Aaron , welcome to the show.
S7: Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.
S1: Oh , great to have you. So you write in the opening to this issue that , you know , this issue's your love letter to San Diego creatives. What makes San Diego art unique from other cities , do you think?
S7: Well , I think the number one , number one thing is our is our proximity to Mexico , to Tijuana , and that cross-border , um , collaboration that happens and naturally creates an ecosystem that is diverse And rich in culture and history and all different kinds of art making.
S1: And I mean , I also want to talk about I think you touch on it just like the stereotypes many people have about San Diego. Um , obviously , you know , first thing , right? Just the sunshine , the waves , whatever. Um , it can overshadow things like our arts and culture scene. I mean , do you agree with that? Absolutely.
S7: Absolutely. I mean , I think that's always what people think of with San Diego as where to go for the beach and the sun and , you know , SeaWorld and the zoo , and those things are great. Um , and we have a really rich , robust arts culture here. And , um , I really got to dive into it and see what I didn't know and what's happening. And I think the we need to flip the script and say , look at what we have here as a very diverse , uh , rich arts community. And by the way , we have the beach and by the way , you have the zoo.
S1: So , yeah , a lot of different factors. So , um , you know , before diving into some of those things you learned working on this issue. I did also want to touch on , you know , something we all live with is just the cost of living in San Diego , right? It's not a cheap place to live. And that can be , um , you know , even more impactful for for artists. How does that reality affect our art scene and really ultimately like the artists working here?
S7: Well , you know , all of these artists are choosing to stay here. You know , there are people who , in these pages who have chosen to come back here and after leaving for education or working elsewhere , they're coming back and working here , but they're struggling. And to if we don't support the arts and support the institutions and support the art working artists here , they will leave. You know , we have artists who are living in Tijuana and crossing the border to come create work. We have artists who are working 1012 hour day jobs and working at night in there , like Diana Benavidez , who's in this issue , a wonderful pinata artist. She works out of her studio apartment and builds these incredible sculptures. You know.
S1: I mean , you mentioned it. Let's let's chat about it because there's a beautiful image of her work in this , right? Like she basically kind of , like , makes pinata art out of surprising objects , right? Like text , you know? Yeah , yeah. Tell us. More.
S7: More. She's kind of political. Makes social commentary with a pinata , which is a really fun item. It's known for celebration. You crack it open , candy falls out , and she's kind of flipped that. And she's the image on her page is of a set of car keys and which is an everyday item. But also women everywhere know that at night , if you're going to walk alone , you put your car keys into your fists and you have a weapon. So she's making social commentary with her art , which is both fun and thought provoking.
S1: Another observation you make about the arts community here is how a lot of folks seem to wear multiple hats. I think you say , you know , maybe a painter is in a band or , you know , like , I don't know , writers involved in it , you know , works at a museum. What does that tell you about life here right now as an artist?
S7: Oh , geez. That's that's a question maybe above my pay grade. But I think that , you know , these creatives are really so dynamic and they are providing art everywhere of all kinds for everybody. So we don't have to be really steeped in art. You don't have to know art history or have a high , high taste for some kind of art. It's accessible to everyone and it's happening all over the city.
S1: And I think you kind of emphasize that in some of the people you profile. Like you said , you don't have to go look at something on a museum wall. This is stuff that's out in our streets every day. Correct?
S7: Correct? Correct. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Um , you know , you profile all kinds of artists in this issue , right? Um , even a tattoo artist. Yeah. I'm wondering if you can , you know , tell us about him and what interested you about his story. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. Dennis doan well , what we did to come down to have these 31 artists in these pages is I talked to a lot of people. An intern at San Diego Magazine also helped me do this , and we asked for names , and we just collected as many names as we could in the amount of time we had. And we came up with 190. And the reality is , there are 190,000 artists working in this region , and we could feature them all. But Dennis Doan was on the lips of people. He's also on the first Vietnamese member of the Arts Commission. But he grew up. He learned to tattoo when he was 15. He was a first generation American. He opened a tattoo parlor. His tattooing saved him from a future that might have been very different. And then he's created a foundation now where he gives unrestricted scholarships to young people , artists , creators , makers who maybe wouldn't otherwise be able to get a plane ticket to get to college of their dreams. So he's reaching back to pull others up behind him. And that was one of our criteria , looking at artists who were doing something bigger than themselves in this community.
S1: Yeah , and that's definitely a through line that comes through , like reading these profiles. Another that comes to mind is is a stage manager. Lisa porter. Lisa. You know. Tell us more about her work and how she's , you know.
S7: Lisa Porter says if a stage manager is doing their work properly , you don't even know they're there. She's very behind the scenes , quiet , humble person , but she's world renowned. She's worked with Yo-Yo Ma , Baryshnikov , Laurie Anderson. Um , and she also had taken her daughter , Daisy , who lives with the disabilities , um , to a production of The Grinch 12 years ago and couldn't. The sensory overload was too much. So Lisa went to the Old Globe and said , hey , what would you say about a sensory friendly production of The Grinch? I'll volunteer my time. So fast forward all these years later , 12 years later , I think it is. And it's one of the most popular productions of The Grinch. It's one day they're talking about possibly starting a second production. Um , and Lisa has worked with other theaters locally to make sensory friendly productions so that it's accessible to everyone and it's , she said of her many achievements. And there are many , um. This is her proudest. And it was just a really moving story. So Lisa is incredible , as are all these artists.
S1: Yeah , yeah. Um , I mean , another thing I wanted to mention about this magazine , you know , talking about magazines in 2026 , you know , we probably need to mention there is an actual magazine. This is available online. But , um , you know , I'm holding the actual pages of this , um , you know , the print version , uh , how , you know , I'm just curious why that matters to you to have , like , a print version and what that means , you know , being that we consume so much of our information on our phones.
S7: Well , I wanted to say that this issue was made possible because of an investment by the San Diego Football Club Playmakers project , and also the Art and Design District and the Downtown San Diego Partnership. And because of that , they were able to hire people to build this. They were able to get better paper. And I'm an analog girl. I want to know that there's a human being has touched this , that the idea has come from their brain into their hands. And this isn't just about me , of course. There's a whole team behind me helping do this , and we all believe in this. And so it is a really beautiful issue to put your hands on.
S1: And kind of I encourage everyone. I mean , where where can people find the print edition?
S7: That is a wonderful question. I'm so glad you asked. Um , well , the way they can really support is by subscribing to San Diego Magazine online. It's not very expensive. Um , you can get a single copy at SD mag store and also Barnes and Noble , Vons , CVS and various newsstands around the city. Or reach out to me.
S1: Um , well , thanks. Yeah , thanks for talking about that , because I do think you're right. There is something in our culture right now where we want a little tangibility that we haven't had. Um , you know , ultimately , what do you hope readers will take away from this issue on arts?
S7: What I want readers to do is spend time with this. Have it out , let their friends and neighbors see it. I want them to take out the beautiful gatefold calendar that is inside the magazine toward the back , with a lot of ongoing art , you know , exhibitions and activities throughout the city that are coming up. I love them to pull that out , put it on their calendar and start making a plan. And , you know , there's something going on in the city every single night , practically. And they could , you know , maybe record their Love Island instead of staying home on the couch and go support these artists , see their work , go to their galleries , buy a ticket to the play. That's how we support them. That's how we show them that we love them.
S1: I've been speaking with Aaron Belfer. She's the editor of this month's San Diego Magazine , which is devoted to San Diego's arts community. And you can find it both on newsstands , as she was telling us and online at San Diego Magazine. Com. Aaron , thanks so much for being here.
S7: No problem. Thank you very much.
S1: And that'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thank you so much for listening. And to all of my guests who joined us today. If you have any thoughts on today's show , you can always email us at roundtable at KPBS or leave us a message. That number is (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Tactical producer this week was Brandon Truffaut. This show was produced by Ashley Rush. Brooke Ruth is roundtable senior producer. I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Have a great weekend and I hope you get a chance to check out some art.
