S1: I'm Andrew Bracken , and this is Screen Time , featuring conversations about technology and kids in today's digital age. Many discussions about how technology may be harming our health. Focus on our mental health. But journalist and author Salman Rushdie became more interested in the ways it's also changing our physical bodies and our physical wellness. The host of NPR's Ted Radio Hour began doing research covering all the ways technology is changing not only how we move , but how often we move and the consequences it has to our health. It led to a podcast series and now a book called Body Electric The Hidden Health Costs of the Digital Age A New Science to Reclaim Your Well-Being. Here's my conversation with Manush Samadi. So this book , Body Electric grew out of a podcast series where you began asking these questions about really how we're being changed by the technology we rely on. So tell us more about how this project got started. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. So really , we've been hearing so much about the mental health effects of social media and being online constantly. But to me , I felt my tech use in my body like this feeling at the end of the day where I couldn't focus anymore. My eyes were dry and tired , my back ached , I had no energy left , and the more I talked to people , the more they're like , yeah , I feel completely spent , drained and exhausted too. But you know what's the answer? It's not like I can throw away my phone or get off my laptop. People have jobs. They have elderly parents , they have kids. If you are a younger person , you're learning online. If you're an older person , it's often how you stay connected to the world. And so that really led me to ask , well , like what is going on in our bodies that is making us feel so physically drained when all we're really doing is sitting and looking at a screen. There's got to be more to it than just what we've been hearing , which is sitting as the new smoking. And that was sort of the journey that I went on to try and answer that question. Right.
S1: Right. And behind this is sitting , I think you write that it's , you know , the default way we live today. But that really wasn't always the case , was it? No.
S2: No. Absolutely not. I mean , what we have seen over the decades is that every time a new technology is introduced , you know , whether that's the drive through at the , you know , restaurant or escalators or microwave or computers , it cuts out , it makes things more efficient and it cuts out our need to move. That is just what innovation does. It makes things easier. Unfortunately , the human body functions in a very ancient capacity , and it needs a minimum amount of movement every day to stay healthy so that we don't die in early death. So this is what was explained to me by a physiologist at Columbia University Medical Center. I heard about a study he had done to find out exactly the minimum amount that the human body needs in terms of movement , so that we don't die in early death. And he had an incredible formula , which was that five minutes of gentle movement for every half hour , uh , of long periods of sitting was the antidote. It I actually took part in his lab study and found that my glucose was cut in half. My blood pressure dropped by five points , my concentration came back. My positivity came back. I felt like I had energy. And so to me , I was like , oh , well , this makes a ton of sense. Just minimum amount of movement. And then I was like , well , where do screens fit into this? Why do they make it so much worse or harder? And really , screens add insult to injury , right? Uh , what happens when we're on a screen as a neuroscientist , actually , who's now at UCLA? Sahib Khalsa explained to me is that , uh , it disrupts something called interception. And interception is the signals that the , ah , internal system sends us , telling us that it needs something that might be , you know , take off your sweater. It's hot in here or you're hungry , you need a snack or get off your screen and move. But we're so glued to our screens , we are so captivated and just fall into them to the point that we've been. We often ignore our body's call to action , to move , to breathe , to actually give us what we biologically need. And when we can start to do that , it makes all the difference.
S1: I want to talk more about those. I think you call them movement breaks. And , you know , your research that you did alongside physiologist Doctor Keith Diaz , because you did do even in , in the podcast , right? You kind of reached out to the audience. You did your own research study. So tell us more about the types of movement , because there's a lot of interesting detail there about exercise and what , you know , how we think about it. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. And maybe some KPBS listeners took part , actually. So this was a couple of years ago , we put out the call to public Radio listeners and said , we want to see if taking regular movement breaks is feasible , what the what sort of results they have , if indeed people can take them and how you fit them into your life. So we had 20,000 people sign up to take either five minute movement breaks every half hour , every hour or every two hours. And the results were actually pretty astounding. I was amazed we saw that people felt , on average , 25% less tired. We actually saw that despite all of the interruptions , productivity rose very slightly. People had more energy. They felt more positive. They had less pain. They felt like that feeling that they could never focus , came back for them. And as Keith explained , you know , there's lots of reasons why. The biggest reason really , is that when your leg muscles are stimulated , they do some incredibly important jobs. They take in the glucose , the blood sugar from your blood and process it. They also push oxygen up to the brain and oxygenate your brain , which of course you need so that you don't become foggy or tired. Um , sitting. Of course , it makes it harder to take deep breaths and get that oxygen all the way up there. And I think part of the reason why people were so , so enthusiastic and stuck with it , 82% of the people who started actually stuck with it and liked it is because they started to think of what was happening inside their bodies when they let themselves take a break. It wasn't annoying , like , oh , I have to take a break. It's like I get to take a break. It makes me feel better in my body. I know that I'm doing something for my longer term health. And actually I can think better.
S1: So , you know , as I think you touch on in this book , we're inundated with health and wellness advice these days from all over the place. You know much of it , I'm sure. Well-meaning , not always completely accurate. Um , and you write , you know , that science is actually quite complex , but also make the case that nuance doesn't go viral. So how did you address the complexity that comes with scientific research and , you know , making conclusions from the research. You and you know , this people you spoke with did while also trying to tell , you know , just a great story in the book. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. I love this question , Andrew. Nobody's ever asked me this. So I to me , I think there are people that , you know , want a quick fix. But by appealing to the curiosity that I think a lot of people have about , like what actually is going inside my body and how did we get there? You know , historically , where does where did all this innovation start to cut out the friction? Or we've heard the term friction maxing. Adding more friction to your lives is like a thing. Now , how did we get to this point where we've become so efficient? I think people once you start telling them the stories , they're curious , they're interested , they start to see it reflected in their own lives. And honestly , as AI begins to infiltrate into all kinds of people's work and sort of speeds up , uh , I'm hearing from so many people that they feel even more pressure to be on their screens , to churn out information , to sort of use these tools to their maximum capacity , and they're feeling even more burned out. So this is not a problem that is going away. It is a relatively simple solution. Add movement back into your life. But I've been thinking about it also as we we , you know , before the Industrial Revolution , no one said , ah , let's get back into nature , right? Or like think of the fish who who say like , well , what's water? Right? Like we have to talk about things like movements , something we never had to talk about because technology is taking it away from our daily lives. So we have to be more intentional , purposeful , and maybe we can find a little bit of joy in it.
S1: You mentioned , you know , this problem is not going away. And whether it's from seeing the impact of social media and screens on kids or concerns over AI and just all the robots coming into our lives , I think we are seeing more concern , more legislation , more attention being raised about technology and the impacts it's having on us. Do you get the sense that there's , you know , a sea change going on here and how we're looking on technology , then say , I don't know , maybe 15 or 20 years ago. And I think there was a lot more optimism in certain aspects of it.
S2: Oh , absolutely. I mean , I think more recently when we've heard all of these potential bans on social media for kids under 16 , I think people are sort of fed up with feeling like their lives are dictated to by the tech companies or the devices they use. But I think we need to , uh , caution , uh , letting tech off the hook. Right? Just saying , like , oh , we're going to ban kids from them. I think there's a lot of shame around technology when we talk to kids , like , get off your phone , you've had enough screen time , and I think we need to start framing it in a more constructive way. One of the things that I talk about in the book is , how do we tell kids what stop saying what not to do and tell them what to do. So instead of like , get off your phone , how about like , let's move some more? Or instead of , you know , scroll time , let's talk about stroll time. Let's talk about like , how do you feel before you go on your iPad and afterwards start to read the sort of internalized signals , because it's not like you turn 16 and suddenly , magically , you have the ability to handle social media. I think these are skills and and feeling good in our body , not just in competitive sports or at gym class , but generally moving and being in the world is something we need to encourage and promote and make it fun. It's not competitive. It it scares me a little bit that we are going for legislation , or that there are fear tactics being used , when really I think we could use some positive news in our lives. We could use some optimism. And that's what I'm trying to offer here.
S1: You can find more resources on all things kids and tech at PBS.org. What questions do you have when it comes to your kids and screens? My email is a bracken and I'm Andrew Bracken. Thanks for listening.
