S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. On today's show , buildings that once housed San Diego businesses will now house. People will tell you about that plan. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. If you've lived in San Diego long enough , you probably remember Fry's in Sierra mesa and Perry's Cafe near Old Town. Well , you know , for many years these large buildings have housed businesses. But not for long. Soon they'll actually house people. It's part of a growing trend to transform commercial buildings into housing developments. Joining me to talk about it is David Garrick. He covers San Diego's city hall for the Union Tribune. And David , hi. How are you doing? Hi.
S2: Hi. Thanks for having me.
S1: Glad to have you here. So tall commercial buildings into high rise apartments set the scene for us a little bit there. Where have you seen some of these redevelopments? In San Diego?
S2: Yeah , they seem to be sort of across the city in a lot of neighborhoods. You mentioned Sarah Mesa with the Fry's , but Perry's was an iconic , famous restaurant place in Old Town or just just west of Old Town. Uh , and then you have Guy Hill , Cadillac and Pacific Beach , which is right near that new trolley station and mission Bay golf course that's now become housing , uh , sprouting up in a lot of different places as developers realize that , you know , if they they can turn a defunct office building or commercial use into the city's badly needed housing , you know , crisis.
S1: So , well , you just reported about this becoming a housing trend. How long has this been going on , and is it happening elsewhere in the county?
S2: I don't know if it's happening elsewhere in the county. It could be obviously with online shopping and changes to the retail climate. You know , there's lots of closing businesses , but San Diego has particularly targeted. In every few years , San Diego will update a growth blueprint for each neighborhood , and when they've been doing that in recent years , they've been changing the zoning of some commercial sites to a zoning called mixed Use , which allows housing and commercial. Uh , and they say that that's had a huge impact on this trend , because now developers don't have to worry about getting a zoning change. It's very simple and smooth for developers to tackle this kind of project.
S1: And as you kind of pointed to , um , this trend , it kind of is being spurred by aggressive zoning changes. Tell us more about what is changing and why now?
S2: Uh , well , I think the city has had a housing crisis for a long time. And here we go. The city has had a housing crisis. I'm sorry about that. The city has had a housing crisis for a long time. They've been trying to tackle it. And one of the ways to do that is to update these neighborhood growth blueprints. In particular , I've done at a Hillcrest University city. Mira mesa. Mission Valley. And that's where you're seeing a lot of this happen. They also did in Kearny Mesa and Samuel Citro.
S1: Can you talk or walk us through the process of how the city decides how many of these projects could help reduce the housing shortage?
S2: I think the city feels like the sky's the limit. I mean , San Diego really is far behind on a state mandated goal of adding housing units. So I think the city. But one change I think the city has made that's worked out to maybe be effective is that in the old days , when they would do one of these growth blueprint updates , they would do it to exactly the number of units they needed. Now they're doing it way more , because you never know when a developer is going to take advantage of a situation. So they're giving developers maybe six times as many opportunities as they actually need , so that at least one of those six , a developer goes , ooh , I see a good opportunity. It's going to be a profit. And they do it. And that sense seems to be having better results than they had in the in the old approach they had. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Well with this I mean , is the city on track to meet a housing units as set by the state?
S2: They're still not on track , but they're getting closer. And they've had they had a record year. And I think 2023 and 2024 was also good. I don't think we have the 2025 numbers yet. At least I haven't seen them. So it's going better. But still they still a ways to go. But the hope is that all these different strategies , all , all put together at once , maybe will help.
S1: Yeah , it sounds like a solid strategy. But you know , I'm wondering , are these zoning changes helping create housing where people actually need it?
S2: You know , the city's theory is that you're going to put it in your transit lines. You're going to put it in areas with lots of infrastructure already in place , like Hillcrest and University City and Mira mesa. I mean , I think that makes sense. Obviously , individual projects can end up being something that really frustrates the community and a lot of cases , too. You're going to have something tall replacing something short. Perez was a one story breakfast building , and now you're going to have a 6 or 7 story building there. So if you're someone who likes lower stuff , you're going to be frustrated by that.
S1: Well , through your reporting , what did you find was the strongest argument for turning several of these buildings into more high rise homes?
S2: Well , I think another strong argument is that there could become an eyesore if they were still zone commercial , like , let's say , the Fry's site in Sarah Mesa. If that was still zone commercial and the developer didn't have the opportunity to put housing on it. There's there's no demand for a giant commercial site like Fry's that sells electronics. So that would have remained empty for five , ten , 15 years if there was no ability to change the zoning. And then you have a decaying building which maybe squatters go in there. It's bad for a neighborhood. It's bad for the city's image. So eliminating those eyesore vacant commercial sites is definitely a positive of this approach.
S1: Any sense of how far down that that could drag values , whether it's nearby commercial buildings or homes?
S2: Yeah , I mean I haven't I haven't studied that theoretically. I guess it could. On the other hand , I mean , if there's going to be that many people living there , there's going to be new amenities. There may be ground floor restaurants that open in some of these tall buildings. You know , when you get more people , look at Little Italy as more people have come to Little Italy now it's sort of the premier dining destination in the region , and that , I think , probably boost housing value. So it could go both ways. Sure.
S1: Sure. Well , one example in your story is this is a vacant Rite Aid in Hillcrest. What are residents there saying about this building? Yeah.
S2: Yeah. You know , I feel bad for the residents there because Hillcrest has a very dramatic shortage of parkland , and this seems to them like a huge opportunity. Let's make it a park. You know , unfortunately , the way the finances work for the city to buy that property , it's multi millions of dollars. And then they would have to turn it into a park and then operate and maintain it for years. And you know , the city is kind of in a budget crisis. So that's really not an option. Even though to the average Hillcrest resident that seems brilliant , but the city can't afford to buy that site. So it's going to turn into housing , which will actually exacerbate the lack of parking , a lack of parks because you're going to have more residents and no new park. So I can see why the residents are frustrated.
S1: Are there concerns that this trend may lead to neighborhoods sort of becoming bedroom communities with fewer services and employers nearby?
S2: I think there are concerns about that , but everyone is shopping online , so we're all creating the situation. You know , I mean , if you buy everything online , there's not going to be a lot of retail stores in your neighborhood because there aren't any customers.
S1: That's so true. With all these plans to redevelop commercial sites. What do you think this means for businesses? I mean , does San Diego risk having fewer places for industries altogether?
S2: I think the businesses are probably happy because there's a glut of commercially zoned land , which is bad for everybody. Right. So if you're going to be in a commercial industry , you want to have fewer competitors as opposed to six different versions of a drugstore , all barely making any money. If you have one drugstore , they'll make a decent profit. So I imagine that they're probably happy. It can depend on industry by industry.
S1: And tell me , because the Mission Valley Mall seems to be another example where they're considering this redevelopment. correct? Yes.
S2: Yes. They're going to add housing. There hasn't been officially approved yet , but a developer has announced that they plan to remake and renovate them all , and that will include some mid-rise housing.
S1: And and remind me again , we talked about this a little earlier , but is this idea of sort of redeveloping this commercial property , is this being expanded into other cities?
S2: I only cover the city of San Diego , so I'm not aware of it. I think everyone , every city is facing commercial sites that are vacant. That's right. Aids all over the county that are vacant , and grocery stores too. I imagine other cities are exploring this , but I'm not aware if they have actually followed through. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. It's one it's something I know down in Chula Vista. Folks are wondering , you know , their Macy's closed up shop. Um , and there are a number of other large retailers that have just left vacant buildings. So it'll be interesting to see how this shapes up in San Diego and also if other cities follow suit. Are there other housing stories that you're pursuing? I mean , what else on your beat. Are you following these days?
S2: Yeah , well , we have SB 79 , which was this huge state law that said you have to allow cities have to allow high rise housing near all transit trolley stations and bus stations. And there was a big battle between Sandag and the city about how many bus stations actually qualified. So that's going to be a huge impact on the city. I think you're going to see high rises near almost every trolley station within , I don't know , ten years and some more quickly than that. That'll be another thing that sort of transforms the landscape of San Diego.
S1: This is it's good to have this housing. Any idea of how it is expected to impact our homelessness crisis?
S2: Well , the theory is that if we have enough homes for people , fewer people will be homeless. So that's one of the reasons why the city is addressing the housing crisis. But , you know , some of these , these new ones , new units will be probably more , more expensive. But that creates sort of the cycle where you get more naturally occurring affordable housing. You get apartment complexes built in the 40s. People move out of those when they have a good job into a brand new one , and that free ups an older unit that can help sort of someone who's lower income , potentially staying at a low cost apartment and avoid becoming homeless.
S1: All right. Well , well , this is something we'll all be hopeful for. I've been speaking with David Garrick. He covers San Diego city hall for the Union Tribune. David , thank you so much.
S2: Thanks for having me.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
