S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hindman on today's show. Do encampment sweeps connect people experiencing homelessness to resources and housing ? While The San Diego Union-Tribune Kristin Takeda tells us what her data analysis reveals. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. It's been nearly three years since the San Diego Council passed the unsafe camping ordinance. Proponents say it's reduced homelessness in the city , but new data shows a complicated picture of what homeless encampment sweeps are actually costing the city and those in the encampments. Joining me with more is Kristin Takeda. She's a watchdog and accountability reporter at the San Diego Union Tribune. Kristin , welcome to the show.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S1: Always good to have you here. So City Council narrowly passed the unsafe camping ordinance in June 2023. Remind us the details of the law and what it was hoping to accomplish. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. So basically it says that encampments are not allowed in public spaces. And more specifically , it allowed enforcement of the unsafe camping of encampment ordinance. Um , it allowed the it said that enforcement would happen at certain times of the day. And also , um , said that at all times , regardless of shelter bed availability. Um , encampments would not be allowed in certain spaces like near schools. But basically it said , um , camp encampments are not allowed. And if there is no shelter beds , if there are no shelter beds available , then , um , police could enforce the ordinance and ticket people or arrest people , um , for camping.
S1: Yeah , I remember that being the big thing. You know , if they're not , if there are not enough beds , then how do you enforce the , the encampment sweeps.
S2: But and something else that the ordinance did too was it said that it laid out rules for how encampments could be abated or swept or cleared. So that's also a major thing that we focused on in this story. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Okay. Well tell me.
S2: So it's been happening pretty often. It's been happening a lot. Um , and on a regular basis. Um , there are several that happen in any in a particular day or in the morning. So. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , so , like , how do officials determine when to conduct a sweep ? I mean , what what drives them. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. So there's I think there's two things. One is , um , there's actually a regular schedule that the city has for certain areas , especially in downtown or in East Village. There are some areas that are just swept regularly , like twice or three times a week even just because the city knows that , um , encampments are frequently in those areas , or people will come back and move their things back even after it's abated , or , um , trash will accumulate. So they're thinking about all those things and just know that there are certain areas that need to be that they believe need to be swept often. And then the other major factor that I think influences how the city where the city decides to sweep and canvass is if they get complaints or reports about encampments through there , get it done application , they'll um , this is the sweeps are essentially a tool they can use to respond to those concerns , to those complaints and reports.
S1:
S2: Um , we mapped it out and saw it like it made it into a time lapse. So showing that , yeah , the places they're sweeping are repetitively swept over and over again. Sometimes it was like scores of times in a year or more than a hundred or like a hundred times in a year for certain locations. So it just kind of raised a question of our if this ordinance was meant to reduce homelessness or reduce encampments , has that been working or what is what was the purpose ? Or is it accomplishing what it's what it was meant to accomplish. And I think I'll go back to the ordinance. I think the , um , one of the major reasons why I was passed was one is for public public health and safety reasons is what the proponents said it was for. Um. And I think that was something we saw as we looked more into abatements , too. Um , one big , I guess , purpose that they're meant to serve is , you know , clearing. Trash and debris. And they also sanitize the sidewalks after they're clearing encampments. So , um , city officials have wanted to , like , prevent , like , disease spread. Um , and so that was like a big argument for why , um , for why these sweeps are happening. And so , um , yeah. So but.
S1: Well , I mean , you you actually went out and saw some of the sweeps yourself. What what did you observe there ? Yeah.
S2: So I guess , um , first of all , it starts with like a 24 hour notice , which is important to note. There are. Um , I think advocates will say that's not enough time for people to clear out , but , um , that's the amount of time that is given for people to move. So they'll post paper notices. And then during the actual sweeps , um , it's people , they have abatement crews come in and sweep up , uh , like basically everything that's left. There could be tents , it could be , um , furniture or like , trash or food , uh , like food boxes , like a lot of or clothing piles. Piles of clothing. So anything that's left that people don't already , uh , move is taken. And so. And then there , um , yeah , we saw people are still there with their tents in some , in a lot of cases. And so , um , what ends up happening is , um , there are police officers who accompany on the sweeps , and then they tell people that they need to move , and so they'll move across the street or down the street where there's it's not being abated. Um , so it kind of goes back to that , um , that question of is this reducing encampments ? But I think a lot of times people just move , have to move somewhere else , and then they end up still not having somewhere to go permanently , but they just end up having to move somewhere else.
S1: I mean , when proponents explain this and say that the the hope is that it reduces homelessness.
S2: Um , and that's supposed to be done through outreach that actually happens outside of encampment sweeps. Then sweeps are more about like clearing the areas , but not so much about , um , proactively , uh , outreaching to people and offering them services or shelter. But yeah , I think the , the what the data came back to and what ? Interviews came back to. We found is that there's just not enough shelter beds. There's not enough places for people to go. There's not enough affordable housing. So yeah , it kind of raises a question of where are you supposed to go if you're not allowed to be here on the street or in an encampment ? But , um , there's there's yeah , there's no there's no other option a lot of the time. So , um , even if shelter referrals are made , which they are. Uh , a lot of the times , a recent city audit looked at this data , too , and found that , yeah , there were tons of referrals happening and more happening after the ordinance passed , but the vast majority of referrals did not result in a placement in a shelter.
S1: So so there aren't enough resources to go around here. It sounds.
S2: Yeah , it sounds like. Yeah. I think that's what we found in like interviews said.
S1: What did you hear from those living in the encampments ? I mean , how how are these repeated sweeps affecting people ? Yeah.
S2: So , um , some of them said they do appreciate that it helps keep the area clean , but several , um , several of them have lost a lot of belongings to sweeps. Um , they've some some have said they've lost everything they own , um , like they've lost tents or money or , um , their sometimes personal belongings , things they have from their families. And so , um , it raises the question of is , um , is this like help houses or is this helping them or is it sending them back further and homelessness if they're losing their items. But , um , I guess this is what the city will say are what the city told us to is that , um , they'll search. They'll search belongings before throwing things away. Um , and a lot of times people intentionally leave things that they don't need anymore. Um , and that could be tense too. But yeah. So there's like a kind of , um. Some , like some people will say that , you know , it's. It's throwing away their belongings and sending them back , but , um , the city will say , you know , people are intentionally leaving things behind.
S1: Well , let me ask you this.
S2: Um , but , um , I also heard from some folks who work in outreach that , you know , if people are being moved around by the sweeps , it can make it harder to follow up with people if you don't know where they are , if they move. Um , I think one , uh , concern people have had about , uh , sweep is this is they might push , uh , people into less visible spaces where.
S1: They're not able to be. Reached.
S2: Reached. Yeah.
S1:
S2: Fiscal year was about $7 million for encampment sweeps and abatements. And that doesn't include also the cost of , um , paying police officers to supervise the abatement. So the city has um police officers supervise each one. They say it's for the security of the abatement crews. Um , and the police will also sometimes like , you know , ask people , have you gotten shelter ? But. Yeah. So that doesn't include that cost. And actually , the police , uh , officer's time is most often over time too. So it's another kind of additional cost that we don't. We don't know the number exactly for that. But yeah. So it's a sizable amount of amount of money for the encampment sweeps. Yeah.
S1:
S2: Yeah. I'm. Yeah. We didn't. Yeah. It's hard. I'm. I feel like that's hard to. Yeah , there's.
S1: Definitely a gap there , but.
S2: So it's really just one small piece. Yeah. Of the of the whole picture. But I just , uh , we just thought it was important to look at that one piece because. Yeah , it it does have a , it does have a large impact on , on the , on the , on the folks living there. And um , it is a , a big responsibility that the city or a big task that the city is , uh , decided to take on , so. Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S2: Yeah , like like you mentioned earlier , it is like a complicated picture of. Is it is it working to reduce homelessness or not ? I think a lot of people will say it. Um , uh , it does move like. It does move people around. And like , I think just the repetitiveness of the encampments was what stood out the most. So , um , on the on the one hand , it does seem to serve , uh , or it does seem to play the role of , you know , like , uh , helping to address , you know , things like trash or , um , reducing.
S1: Sanitation , sanitizing the. Street.
S2: Street. Yeah. But , um , I think a lot more needs to be done , uh , in order or from what we've heard from people , a lot more needs to be done in order for homelessness to truly be reduced. And I think the biggest thing that people mentioned to us was the shelter bed availability. There's just not enough. So giving people a place to to go instead of encampments is a big part of that. Um , and helping them connect with services. Yeah.
S1: All right. Well , thank you so much for your reporting and insight on this. I've been speaking with Kristin Takeda , watchdog and accountability reporter at the San Diego Union-Tribune. Kristin , thanks.
S2: Yeah , thank you for having me.
S1: That's our show for today.
S3: I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
