Navigating immigration enforcement's impact on mental health

S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hindman on today's show. Many people are dealing with anxiety and tension as immigration enforcement continues. We'll talk about positive ways to handle those emotions. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. There's a lot of anxiety and fear in the political landscape right now , amid the Trump administration's continuing immigration crackdown and an avalanche of changing policies. All of this uncertainty and the heavy headlines can have a real impact on one's mental health. So when the news gets overwhelming , when reality gets overwhelming , how do you navigate it ? Well , I'm here with Liz Athyma. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist based in San Diego's South Bay. Lisette , welcome back to the show.

S2: Thank you for having me again.

S1: So glad to have you on here. I think this is a really important conversation given the times we're in.

S2: I'm treading waters. Yeah. One day at a time.

S1:

S2: Um , so I try to , you know , limit my exposure on my daily basis. I do work out five days a week. I drop off my daughter , go to the gym , and then around 11:00 , I'll see my first client. Um , so the beginning of the day is my time to kind of reset , be fresh. So that way , where I'm sitting on the couch , it's all my attention directed to that specific client.

S1: First order of business is to take care of yourself. 100%.

S2: 100%. We use the airplane mentality. Right. Airbag on your cell first. Oh yeah. Then the second.

S1: One on you first. Then. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Well , I know you've had a lot of conversations with your clients who are feeling a lot of anxiety around Trump's immigration crackdown. You you work , like , primarily in the South Bay , you know , where many community members are directly impacted by all of this. And we touched base with you last year.

S2: But to be honest , I do think that there's , like , a little pattern , um , every few months. Things get a little crazy and little while with the news and what's happening. And then , you know , it kind of slowed down a bit , and then here we go again. So we're like , in this up and down roller coaster , unfortunately. And there is population that's , you know , affected , uh , directly and a little bit more than other individuals. So it depending on the on the client. Um , unfortunately , now I want to say in the last few weeks , I feel like it's affecting people that you wouldn't typically assume that they're getting affected. Um , I did I see a variation of clients. I see kids , couples , adolescents , adults. Um , and we have a heavy population of military members that we see. Um , and I was in session last week , um , with one of my retired Navy guys , and I've been seeing him for a hot minute , and he said , I'm embarrassed to tell you what's going on. And , you know , I normalized it. We had our little conversation , and , um , he ended up telling me , he said , I've just been scared and nervous , and I was really not piecing it together because he was kind of vague at first. Um , and I continued to ask questions and probed for more details so he can clarify what he was trying to share. And he said , I've just been afraid of leaving the house and something happening to me and not coming back home. And , you know , sometimes you have to assess mental health. So you assess for paranoia , delusional thinking , um , you know , stuff like that. And , you know , I'm asking specification questions so I can understand exactly what's happening. And this client has depression , right ? Nothing that you would think , you know , aligned with paranoia or delusional thinking. So I'm asking questions. You know , maybe we miss something , and I ask him specifically , what are we afraid of ? And he said that I'm ready to be picked up by ice. And I said , what do you mean ? And my ignorance in the second , in the moment. I know he's third generation American. Mhm. Right. So I'm thinking. Why ? Um , and , you know , there's there's different types of Mexicans. We have fair skins. You have caramel tones , like myself. Um , so we we come in all shapes and colors , right ? Right. Um , and and I'm just asking questions , and I'm asking him why. And unfortunately , he said something that hit home , and he said. And I said , you're a citizen , you're American. And he said , but it's not like it matters.

S1:

S2: Yeah.

S1: Yeah.

S2: And I had to wrap my head around that. Right.

S1: Right.

S2: And I said , you're right.

S1: It's I mean , it's absolutely right. Yeah. I've heard. I know and I've heard of cases where where military members have been stopped by and hemmed up by ice , you know , across the country , 100%. Not only do they have to contend with that , I'm sure they're weighing various things in their mind exactly right now. So , yes. Yeah. I mean , well , you've said before that you know you've had to be more creative these days and helping your clients navigate this , this moment.

S2: Right. So , um , you know , as mild as , you know , mild could be with anxiety and depression and as severe as , you know , bipolar , schizophrenia , um , paranoid disorders. Um , so we we have certain interventions that we utilize for each diagnosis typically. Right. Um , that are indicative that it will it will be effective in reducing symptoms or frequency of duration of symptoms. And with this fear or , um , current situation that we're experiencing , we have to be creative because sometimes we have to assess the symptom. Right. And a lot of the times we try to ground the individual in reality , factual , tactile , reality based situations. And with this , when somebody has a fear that is very realistic , right ? It's all over the media and it's in your backyard , technically , right. There's no state that has been unscathed with this. Um , it is very hard for us clinical clinicians , uh , having individuals in the therapy room and being creative that with something like this. And it kind of brings me back. During Covid , we had to be very creative and interventions. And how do we implement these things. And during this last year , um , we have to be creative with an intervention. So typically we , um , Help the patient or client delegate those thoughts or intrusive thoughts or fears based on reality , right ? But how do we do that if that's actually happening ? Right. So how do we ground someone reality if the reality is what they're fearful from ? So , um , in my practice , I have been creating safety plans. And a safety plan is typically utilized when we're having patients or clients that are endorsing symptoms of suicidal ideation , um , homicidal radiation , um , you know , self harm or aggression. We do safety plans in crisis plans for situations like that. Um , and we started utilizing these are my practice safety plans for these type of situations. So how do we minimize the impact. Right. We can't guarantee and we can't say it's not based on reality. Yeah.

S1: Yeah. Because it is very much real. It is Him ? Unfortunately , yeah.

S2: Right. And if it's a logical and delusional , you go through a process of helping the patient identify that. It's an illogical thought that we have the wise mind and emotion , mind which is the logic and the emotion. So we we kind of dabble on that and figure that out. With something like this. We have to validate the fear and the reality of it. Right ? And then determine what it's going to make this patient or client feel safer or minimize the impact of this fear. A lot of the time when we're having clients having symptoms , the symptom itself handicaps the individual , right ? This is happening with these individuals that are afraid of getting picked up by , for example , ice. They're not going outside. They're missing school , they're missing work , or they're doing the bare minimums. Right ? Or where they're going out , they're going out and they're scared. So how do we figure out a safety plan for that ? So my goal is helping them not stop living , right. Because then we're giving in into the fear , which is , you know , technically any and we would do the same thing with any other symptom. And we're facing the fear as a symptom right now because it's kind of starting to handicap the individual. Right. Mhm. Um , so how do we educate them on , you know , rights , how to prepare if this were to happen and being creative with the , with the alternatives in knew the routine or things that they were doing at home , for example. You know , if we talk about different scenarios , okay , let's say you do get picked up on does your cell phone have your location ? Do you drop a pin ? Do you have , you know , um , life three , six , all those little components that if you do go missing , can we track your last location ? Can we figure out where you were ? Um , a lot of my clients , you just. You see themselves and all are carrying their past supports , myself included. Yeah. And I have a 14 year old that never in my life I would trust her with a passport. And guess what ? She has her passport. Yeah.

S1: Yeah. These are all , you know , survival techniques and I. And , you know , it's interesting and what you're saying. And that is that part of your therapy at this point is to talk about survival in this moment.

S2: And it is very different than the everyday treatment that , you know , for the past 16 years I've been doing. But it is reality , which is a little different. Um , sometimes the reality of someone that's , you know , depressed is sometimes alternating their narrative , right ? And seeing in a different perspective. And it's hard to change a perspective on this one , right. When the facts and what's happening is it's there , it's very black and white. So it's a lot of navigating and how to help individuals really survive and live life day by day without really handicapping. Because I do believe that if we do give in , that's what they want.

S1: I got to ask , you know , with everything going on , um , it can be easy to feel helpless and like everything is just out of one's control.

S2: Which is why my schedule changes every semester. Every quarter. Um , but the I do want to say that this generation and how passionate people are right now and not being fearful and educating themselves and , you know , posting or doing walkouts or marches. It's really educating us. And it's also giving us the strength of it. It's okay for us to do this and go outside and share what we think is right and what we think is wrong. And I think it's because it's a community , right. We're creating a community of its own , and sometimes community comes with power and we don't feel alone. So as alone as you're feeling right now , sometimes if you connect to a community that you connect with , it doesn't have to be about immigration. It's not to be to buy. It's just creating or connecting with a community that you feel close to gives you the sense of I belong , especially right now , because a lot of people feel like we don't.

S1: All right. That's some great advice. This was a good conversation. I've been speaking with Lisette Marr , licensed marriage and family therapist. Lisette , thank you so much.

S2: Thank you for having me.

S3: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.