NPR's Kirk Siegler on covering climate change in the American West

S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. On today's show , NPR's Kirk Siegler talks about his reporting on climate change , water resources and his upbringing. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. Here on midday , you know , we occasionally get the chance to speak with some of the National Public Radio voices you often hear on KPBS. And today , I'm happy to be speaking with Kirk Siegler. He is a national correspondent for NPR , where his coverage focuses on America's western states and the impacts of climate change. You may have heard him report on stories about California wildfires , the financial pressures facing American farmers , water scarcity and much more. Kirk Siegler , welcome to you. Glad to have you here on midday.

S2: Thank you. My bio makes me sound pretty busy.

S1: Well you are. It's. It's not imagined. So , I mean , given , uh , we had some rainfall earlier today here in San Diego , it seems like we should start with an important topic for many western states. And that's water. Um , about seven states , including California , depend on water from the Colorado River , not to mention parts of Mexico. But the amount of water there is dwindling from the impacts of climate change breakdown the situation there right now. Right.

S2: Right. So it's dwindling. It's shrinking. Whatever you , you know , adjective you use , it's a crisis. And this year in particular is kind of the winter that the climate scientists this past winter have been warning about that up at the headwaters of the Colorado River , up in Colorado and the Rockies. They're coming off their warmest and driest winter on record. And , uh , seven states , 40 million people , countless farms depend on , you know , snowmelt and runoff from this river. For our livelihoods in the west , San Diego. The reason I'm in San Diego is because San Diego , historically amongst California cities , has been very dependent on the Colorado River and what's going on right now. It's in the headlines quite a bit. The states are trying to negotiate a new operating agreement for the river , and it's kind of been at loggerheads for months and years. It still is. The lower basin states , California and Nevada and Arizona have gotten together and come up with a water cutting program , and they're trying to negotiate that with the upper basin states who haven't blinked yet. But the big , big picture is that there's a concern that the if you're in any of these states that the federal government will then come in , if these states can't agree on a new operating agreement and cut all the water. And what has not happened yet is the Trump administration hasn't taken a huge front seat role on this. You know , you talked to California water managers for a while , and they were worried that this might be part of his retaliation. Political retaliation campaign to California and just cut the water to California. That has not happened. So we're kind of in a status quo on the river , but the crisis is getting worse. And the situation here in San Diego is actually pretty interesting.

S1: Yes it is. So talk to me a bit about that.

S2: People moving in , not enough water , but San Diego over the years invested big , $1 billion or more in this desalination plant , which itself is quite a interesting thing or a controversial thing. But they are finding themselves , even despite the mega drought that's been gripping the river basin for 20 plus years because of all of the conservation measures and other different Diversification of San Diego and Southern California's water supplies. You know , seeing the writing on the wall about the Colorado River , trying to diversify and plan ahead. They find themselves now , even despite the mega drought in this situation where they actually have some excess water and they're looking to sell it , which is or trade it or , you know , temporarily lease it , which is kind of easier said than done. Now , we're not talking about , you know , building a pipeline or trucking the water to a state like Arizona or Nevada. But what more of a sort of the laws of the river are very complicated. But , you know , you sort of trade water trade deals or San Diego wouldn't use the water that it's allotted farther up the river , and it would stay in the river there for towns here and then here in San Diego. They might put more of the desal desalination water into their own local water supply. So I may have hopefully I didn't lose , you know. No.

S1: No. But my question is , is when you talk to people , do they think that's a good idea for , for San Diego to , to , you know , trade out its water.

S2: Uh , that's a great question. Um , and there's so many other things going on right now. One of my questions walking around town is , is are people following it this closely ? Because we're coming off a winter that was hit or miss , uh , did see quite a bit of rain here and there. Um , but yeah , the as it is right now , there's really nowhere to store it. So they have to use it. So it is an interesting and it is also we're not talking about a huge amount of water here. Um , on a good day , that plant may amount to 7 to 10% of the overall , uh , water use in this region. So it's not a lot. But that is a good question when I'm in the middle of the reporting trip yet. So I might have to get back to you on that one. Okay.

S1: Okay. All right.

S2: We haven't finished.

S1: All right. Makes sense. Okay , so I want to turn to your your own background now. Um , because your coverage focuses on a variety of issues , but focus on the western US. You know , it's that's where it's at. And you grew up in Montana.

S2: I did. Yeah.

S1: Yeah. Yeah.

S2: So it's always been kind of a big part of me. And I grew up around a lot of Forest Service rangers and grew up around a lot of firefighters. And , um , I've kind of taken that into , uh , informing some of my reporting today. So , uh , I , I wouldn't say I grew up in a particularly it was rural , but it was a college town in Missoula , Montana. Bit of a bubble within a within some of the other parts of Montana , for sure. They would always say like , oh , it's a it's a 15 minute drive from Montana when you're in Missoula. But it is , it is. It did inform me of seeing things differently and seeing the the the push pull between natural resource communities and urban areas that depend on the natural resources , but then the vice versa. People in the smaller towns feeling like they're not getting much back from the cities , and they're making the boom in the cities possible. Um , but in this particular instance , I'm thinking of Seattle , a tech boom in Seattle , and a lot of the natural resources coming from elsewhere and sort of an urban rural divide there. So , yeah , it definitely has been an interesting thing. And at NPR , we've been trying to work hard really , ever since the first Trump election , uh , sort of a recognition that in 2016 that we weren't really we missed it. You know , we weren't really covering the full country enough. And , you know , that argument could be said. We weren't covering all cities enough for certain parts of underserved neighborhoods in certain cities. So it applies everywhere. But I'm one of well , I can think of it probably at NPR. One of only a couple of us are based full time in rural red states. And so approaching stories from that perspective is certainly interesting. And I am on the road quite a bit.

S1: All right. As I could imagine , you know , one of the things , uh , that's big in rural states is farming. Um , what do you think ? The average American doesn't always understand about being a farmer in the US today.

S2: Well , that it's a I mean , I think we have this kind of iconic image , and sometimes it's perpetuated by politicians talking about the American farmer and , you know , a glorified image. But it is a modern , capital intensive business. It's a risky business. And farmers and like all sorts of the all sectors of the economy , farms have gotten very big. In fact , you've been sort of told over the years to get big , to be able to survive. And we don't meet a lot of like out on the beat. I don't meet a lot of quote unquote family farmers , just like at this point , we probably don't meet a lot of small business owners , you know , just in small places that haven't been kind of swallowed up. So I think much like the Western US. There are a lot of misconceptions and stereotypes about the West we could go into for quite a while , but there are also a lot of stereotypes about farmers and in the heartland and what they're growing. Here in California , we grow a lot of food that we that you and I actually eat. But the bulk of the American farm economy is row crop farms is.

S1:

S2: Um , just a couple of weeks ago , I was out in North Dakota as spring planting season was getting underway or about to get underway. Actually , they had had a blizzard. But , you know , farmers are figuring out what to plant , and they're going into their fourth or fifth year of being in the red because crop prices are so low , because inflation is so high , because the Strait of Hormuz is cutting off fertilizer , because of the tariffs , I mean , you name it. And , you know , but if you walk through the fields , I mean , it's not like you're going to want to necessarily eat anything off the ground that's being grown there. Much ? Not unlike when visiting , say , I think probably two years ago I was in the Imperial Valley. And you walk the , the , the crops there and you think , well , I could actually eat that broccoli. But the large swaths of the American Midwest , which are in the news right now because of Trump's. President Trump's second trade war. And President Trump is about to go to China to negotiate some deals. But , you know , the Trump administration really tried to curtail , um , exports in the economy and told farmers to grow more for America. And , you know , that's a big misconception because farmers are like , we can't we have scaled up to feed the world , and we grow too much and we're too good at it. And much of our business relies on international deals , largely in Asia and other countries. And right now there's a lot of geopolitics. So the average farmer , uh , to your question about , you know , what ? People don't quite understand the average farmer today in America is got one eye on you know what he's doing over here and or she. And then over here looking at geopolitics on their phone like what's Brazil buying. What's China going to do. What's happening in the strait. So we are definitely in a very global global economy. It's not just the old iconic American image of the American Gothic with the pitchfork. Yeah.

S1: Yeah. Well , and I want to circle back to the straight because , you know , we often hear that because of that closure , there's not enough fertilizer. We're not going to have crops.

S2: But a lot of farmers , if you listen to the Trump administration and the Agriculture secretary , Brooke Rollins , is saying most farmers have already had already secured their fertilizer from last year. They had to. But when you're on the ground , it's pretty clear that that's not the case. It's not most. Some did , some didn't. And even if they did buy the fertilizer , it's not necessarily there. You know , it hasn't gotten to them yet. So even if they were fortunate enough to lock in prices before they went up by 40% , which is huge. So that's a big issue going forward. And , you know , maybe even while we've been talking for the last couple of minutes , the news has changed on the straight. But if you're out in the so-called heartland and depended on this , you're really worried right now because you don't know what the future's going to look like in the next couple of months. Hmm.

S1: Hmm. Another thing you've covered are wildfires , especially the ones here in California , including last year's LA wildfire , as well as in Paradise or the Palisades and or Paradise in 2018.

S2: And then there are some things we can't do. But I think one of the big takeaways in California has has done quite well at this. If you look at Paradise , California , this is a town that was more or less wiped off the map , and they're trying to build it back in a way that is more resilient while also , you know , making sure that people can still afford to live in these places. You know , I think the public thinks of California wildfire still nationally , seeing the images of Malibu or the San Diego County high end homes burning. In part , that's just because it's accessible to see that on TV , because reporters can get there. But large swaths of California , much like other natural disasters and man made disasters , affect people who are living in places that are more high risk because they have to. So I think we've learned quite a bit. And these fires , if there's one thing that's sort of shined a light on this , the inequality in the country , and it's not just California , but California tends to lead the way in a lot of things for for better or worse. But yeah , we we have I've covered the wildfire crisis in the West for years. And I have also learned personally to fight to keep these stories in the news. I'm still following up on the Palisades and Altadena. The Eaton fire. You know , more than a year later , because many people , thousands of people are still in limbo , still in crisis , still living day to day. And it's not the old fires that we used to hear about up in the woods somewhere , burning some vacation cabins , we are now confronted with an urban wildfire crisis. If there's one positive about it. I think the public has really started to understand the stakes of this and that something has to change.

S1: And wow. Well , briefly , you know , reporting on the impacts of wildfires , drought and water scarcity.

S2: I try to to center the people in the middle of the story most affected by it. So whether it's up in Oregon , uh , in , in a logging town , um , where there's , uh , the effects of deforestation , I try to tell about the effects of climate change in that community and how it actually affects and how the policies are affecting , say , working class people. Instead of just talking heads from the national level now , they certainly I don't mean to say talking heads , but experts do , you know , serve a role in stories. But I think the media writ large isn't telling the big story about climate change as much as they could with character driven people right on the ground and , and , and experiencing the crisis through their eyes. Yeah.

S1: Yeah. Every story is about the humanity of people. And I've been speaking with Kirk Siegler. He's a national correspondent with NPR news. Kirk , thank you so very much. I appreciate it.

S2: You're welcome. Glad to be here.

S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.