S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Andrew Bowen in for Jade Hindman on today's show. anti-Semitism is on the rise in the US and around the globe. But how do we define anti-Semitism ? That's the question. Before the San Diego City Council today , this is KPBS Midday Edition connecting our communities through conversation. Last week , a man armed with a rifle drove a car into a synagogue in Michigan. He died after exchanging gunfire with security officers. It's a recent example of rising anti-Semitism in the United States and around the globe. Well , the San Diego City Council today will be discussing anti-Semitism. Council member Steven Whitburn is proposing adopting a definition crafted by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. It's a definition that's been widely adopted by countries , states , cities and schools. But critics say it's imprecise and could have broader implications for freedom of speech. Here to unpack all of this is Jonathan Robert. He's a professor of political science at San Diego State University. And professor , thank you for joining us.
S2: Oh , happy to be here , Andrew.
S1: I'd like to start by grounding this conversation in your own lived experience. Tell me about the times and the manners in which you've been attacked or harassed for being Jewish.
S2: Well , look , I mean , it goes back to when I moved from a Jewish day , schools to public schools. Suddenly I was no longer around , just all Jews. And so just being seen as different alien , even though my public high school had over 10% Jewish people. But there already was just , you know , most of it was loose and you just kind of got used to it. In college , I went to the University of Pennsylvania , which those days was over a third Jewish. Nevertheless , I was unlucky. One evening I was returning from the library to my off campus apartments , and there happened to be basically three big guys from another university. Pen had just beaten them in basketball , and they were drunk and they were just , you know , screaming out anti-Semitic comments. And I happened to be walking nearby and they asked if I was Jewish. Perhaps I stupidly said yes. And , you know , they they they charged me , you know , so they they hit me. Fortunately , it was broken up quickly. That was the only time I'd been violently beaten. Um , then it kind of comes up periodically. I had a bad experience not too long ago , in 2017 , I had a Facebook post that went viral , and there were mostly just complaints that this , you know , another liberal professor who's bashing America , Some were just attacking me for being a professor. But a good chunk , I'd say maybe 10% were attacking me because I was Jewish and even heard things like , Jew bastard. Uh , hook , you know , hook nosed bastard. And so and there were threats of violence and there was , you know , the , the , the common allegation against Jews that you're not really an American.
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S2: I tend to think it's worse for people my age. I happen to be 62 , um , now because I think the countries become far more diverse. There's all sorts of other minorities to pick on. I think perhaps Jews are not as top in the list as they were kind of when I was growing up. On the other hand , I think anti-Semitism has has grown. A lot of it is just because of the growth in general , racism. So anti-immigrant bashing it tends to extend toward Jews , even though the bulk of Jews are not immigrants in the United States , but they're still seen as aliens and basically fellow travelers. And these things , like Jews , will not replace us. The idea is not literally , I think that , you know , the Jews are going to replace American non-Jews , but that Jews are encouraging all these non-European immigrants to come in. So they're still seen as as pulling the levers.
S1: Well , let's talk about the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance , or IHRA. They have a definition of anti-Semitism that the City Council will be discussing today. What is this organization and how do they define anti-Semitism ? Okay.
S2: So look , I'll just back up briefly , the origins of what later became the ERA definition were this European Union monitoring group on hate and extremism in general. It wanted to look at incidents of anti-Semitism around 2004 , and it used the help of Kenneth Stern , a friend of mine from the American Jewish Committee. And they just wanted , can we get a definition , you know , a standard definition to help us track antisemitic incidents in Europe. So Kenneth Stern , helped by other people , tried to come up with this definition and listed examples. It was not meant as kind of a gotcha or that these are automatically anti-Semitic. It was just meant to help , uh , monitor its uh , was a clumsy definition. I hope , uh , Ken would even acknowledge that. Now , you know , if you read the definition here , it's simple but kind of bulky. anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews , which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and or their property. Toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities. It's a mouthful. It even starts a certain perception of Jews. Um , I think it was pretty clumsy at first. But what's most controversial is they added , um , 11 examples. Um , at , they say , contemporary examples of anti-Semitism in public life , taking into account the overall context , include , but are not limited to. And the three most controversial examples are these. Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination , for example , by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor. Second , applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation. Third , drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. So these examples already caused controversy in 2004 and 2005 , and eventually the successor to the European Union Monitoring Commission decided to drop it from its websites. Then we skip ahead to the 20 tens. There's an increased effort by Israel advocacy groups to more or less tie anti-Semitism to Israel in the sense of trying to target supporters of Palestine and critics of Israel. And so they like this definition now , not because of its clarity , but because it could be used to help that objective. So they wanted a respectable home. They didn't want an outright partisan organization. They certainly didn't want the government of Israel to be hosting this. So they found the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance that had formed in 1998. It was basically a research center for studying the Holocaust. It wasn't the monitoring group , but in 2016 this inter-governmental group was persuaded to adopt the definition.
S1: So you've mentioned several times now you think that this definition is clumsy.
S2: The stylistic criticism is the clumsy definition. I've even seen plenty of advocates of the IRA definition acknowledge that it's a clumsy formulation. I think they like the examples a lot. And so the objections are that the examples are vague when directed toward Israel or towards Zionism , and potentially very expansive , especially if they're going to be interpreted by Israel advocacy groups as a sweeping denunciation of any anti-Zionist comments or of , you know , any comments that are harshly critical of Israel , like referring to it as an apartheid state.
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S2: Uh , I've certainly seen it played out at San Diego State or among former students who are now professors. That's just avoid talking about the topic. And then there was a study put out by two political scientists , Mark Lynch and Shibley Telhami , at the University of Maryland. It was a study of Middle East scholars. It found that 82% of all U.S. based professors of Middle East studies reported self-censoring when talking about Israel Palestine , and for um tenured professors , it was 98%. Uh , some of them , it was about Palestine , but the overwhelming bulk was saying anything critical about Israel. So there's the self-censorship. There's. Efforts to prohibit this has happened in , excuse me , in Great Britain , France , Germany of prohibiting even advocacy of boycott , divestment or sanction of Israeli institutions. Certain slogans come under attack , like Free Palestine from the river to the sea. Palestine will be free. There was one example. Temple University and then Stockton University in New Jersey had a joint a zoom program. It was about the misuse of the IRA documents. That action itself invoked strong opposition of being contrary to IRA. And so it did eventually air. But again , it got that chilled impede it. And so I think a number of people just won't do it. I guess the one last thing I'll mention is that in the last few years , the IRA definition has emboldened a surge of title six complaints. So that's part of the 1964 Civil Rights Act at universities claiming that , um , in this case , comments about Zionism or harsh comments about Israel are are creating an unsafe atmosphere for Jews.
S1: So this definition by IHRA does claim or say explicitly that it is non-binding and that it is not meant to impede the First Amendment or , you know , a chill free speech. Um , it's also a definition that's been pretty widely adopted. Dozens of countries , cities , states have adopted it. Why do you think it has gotten so much support and attention , and how have you seen those in favor of the IRA definition respond to this criticism ? Okay.
S2: So I'll start with why has it gotten so much support. Look at me as a Jewish person , you know. Very committed to my Jewish identity. I'm happy that there's concern about anti-Semitism , and I'm happy at the idea that the city of San Diego is going to have a resolution on anti-Semitism. It's just not happy about this one. But in general , the default is , well , of course , I'm going to support a resolution. It all looks very reputable. The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance distinguished , you know , organizations that are focused on anti-Semitism. You know , in practice that's really hard. And it becomes , you know , a second level question. Okay , but is this the kind of definition and is this something that's , um , really going to distinguish between criticisms of Israel versus genuine anti-Semitism ? But most don't go that far , I suspect , of our council members , they haven't thought too closely about the issue. They're just saying , okay , I see. Reputable Jewish organizations want us to condemn anti-Semitism. I see anti-Semitism is on the rise.
S1: It's the Jerusalem Declaration on anti-Semitism. It was developed by scholars of the Holocaust , Jewish Studies and Middle East Studies. And in fact , you have endorsed it yourself.
S2: I think it's a very good one. So this was initiated by scholars of anti-Semitism and related fields , and it was actually done in collaboration with Palestinian scholars. So they were actually thinking about , on the one hand , we certainly want to subject Israel to robust scrutiny. On the other hand , we certainly don't want to cross the line into anti-Semitism. So let's think about a focused condemnation of anti-Semitism that doesn't then cross into this weaponization of just tarring. Critics of Israel , whether they're Palestinians , Arabs , Muslims or even the growing amounts of Jews. So they came up with this definition specifically as a counter to the IRA one. And I find it pretty useful and that , um , it does actually try to delineate when attacks on Israel or Zionism crossover. So on the one hand , unlike the IRA , it accepts on its face anti-Zionism , advocacy of boycott , divestment and sanctions all evidence based criticisms as legitimate on their face. It then draws the line at attacks that apply classical anti-Semitic tropes to Israel , blames Jews as such for Israel's actions like , you know , attacking a synagogue , for example , accusing Jews of dual loyalty or denying any Jewish attachment collective rights to the area known as Israel Palestine.
S1: So this Jerusalem declaration was a direct response to the IRA definition of anti-Semitism , right ? So has IRA. Has IRA responded to the response to their definition ? Yes.
S2: If we mean advocates of IRA , they've been quite hostile , uh , to them. Look , I think the reasons they're hostile toward the Jerusalem Declaration of anti-Semitism is it doesn't say off the bat that anti-Zionism is automatically anti-Semitism. And for them , boycott , divestment , sanction is the ultimate evil. They see no justification. And the fact that the JTA is saying that on its face , it's legitimate. You know , it all depend , you know , if it's being linked with crude anti-Semitic stereotypes or that part would be anti-Semitic. and what you know. Another expert on American Jewish identity in Israel Palestine , Derrick Penciler , argued , is that the JTA plays up a solidarity. That is , anti-Semitism is part of racism , hostility in general for the bulk of the IRA supporters. They really want to play up the distinct nature of anti-Semitism. To them , they see it as a problem to lump it with other types of racism.
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S2: One , you know , besides just good kind of security measures , you know , for synagogues , Jewish institutions , uh , is , I think , tackling the bigger issue of racism , uh , anti immigrants and how it's linked toward anti-Semitism. And the other part is promoting just , um , nuanced , thoughtful discussions of Israel-Palestine. I guess the third thing actually would be promoting much deeper discussion collaboration among Jewish , Muslim and Palestinian local groups. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , I've been speaking with Sdsu political science professor Jonathan Robert , a professor. Robert , thank you for joining us and sharing your insight.
S2: Thank you very much , Andrew.
S1: And that's our show for today. I'm your host , Andrew Bowen in for Jade Hindman. Thanks for listening to Midday Edition. Have a great day.
