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What conversations with writers can teach us about the craft

 November 20, 2025 at 12:24 PM PST

S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition on today's Arts and Culture show. We're talking about tools to become a writer , satire in film and arts events you need to know about this weekend. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. Two new books feature lessons from renowned authors on the craft of writing. Then , on midday movies , we define tactical frivolity and how it makes us both think and laugh. Plus , we'll open up the weekend's art calendar to talk about what's happening around town. That's ahead on Midday Edition. The blank page. It's what all writers face , but how that blank page can be transformed into a captivating story , whether fiction or nonfiction can be a mystery , and it's a mystery that Dean Nelson has been exploring for some 30 years. Each year at the Writers Symposium by the sea , Nelson asks award winning and bestselling authors about their work and their approach to it. Now he's out with two books of his own , with insights from those conversations. The books are called Talking to Writers The Craft of Fiction and Nonfiction , and Dean Nelson spoke with Midday Edition host Jade Heinemann earlier this week. Here's that conversation to start.

S2: Tell us about the inspiration behind these two books and who they're for. Yeah.

S3: Yeah. I when when we hit the 25th year of doing the Writers Symposium , it dawned on me that we have this treasure trove of wisdom from all of these great writers. We've got we've captured on , on video and um , and all , but I think having some kind of a , a compilation that addresses what do all writers wonder about and , and how cool would it be if , if some of their favorite writers would address those very same questions ? I got to thinking about pulling some of the themes from those years of the Writers Symposium into a , uh , a book kind of volume. I mean , George Plimpton did this years ago with his Paris Review interviews , and , uh , I've had that in the back of my mind for a long time that this I've got that same kind of deep , deep well of wisdom that I could draw from. So I've been working on this for the last few years. And finally , after 30 years of doing these interviews , I've got this compilation that has some of the greatest writers , addressing every writer's fundamental questions.

S2: Okay , so so , professor , these two books , you say , you know , they really grew out of you talking with all these writers over the years and finding patterns.

S3: They're really interested in doing this. Then they always have some point in their lives where they run up against some , some real roadblocks and some significant rejection. And , um , and then I think one of the things that I found so interesting is they all have a different view of what we mean by the craft of writing. And and they all have some really good advice and it's also different. So once I realized there were these patterns of all these writers have origin stories , all these writers have impediments to them getting where they wanted to go. Here's where they had some success. Here's what reading has meant to them. And then now we get to the nitty gritty , the discipline and the craft. Um , those patterns started to emerge as I was reading the transcripts , and I just thought , okay , those are going to be natural chapters. So here's what I did. I pulled what , let's say , my my interview with Anthony Dore. What did he say about , um , discipline. And then I pulled from what Amy Tan said about discipline. And then I pulled from what Ray Bradbury said about discipline. And so those those dialogues just on that topic that became that chapter.

S2: Interesting , interesting. Like , were there any unique writing habits that you came across in your interviews ? Yeah.

S3: Jim Bouton , the the great Yankees pitcher who wrote a book called ball four , uh , which was banned by the , um , the baseball commissioner , which , of course , made it a million , uh , bestseller. And , uh , he said that he found that he could not write while he was wearing pants. Now , I don't know what you make of that. I've never tried to recreate that scenario , but that I thought that was a little unusual. Uh , some people who have a journalism background , they they can write anywhere. Uh , then there are other people who are the , um , uh , the conditions have to be have to be just right. Uh , Andrew. Uh , Immortals , for instance. Uh , he gets up , uh , he he writes first thing in the morning. Don Winslow said he treats it like a job. He is up. He's writing by six in the morning. He quits at five at night , he takes one break for lunch and a walk , and then he goes back to work. Then there are others. They can only do it for about three hours. And then the tank is empty. So everybody has a different way of doing it , which in my view kind of validates any writer reading this book is going to say , oh yeah , okay , I'm like that guy , or I'm like that person , um , or I'm not so weird. Wow.

S2: Wow. Yeah , well , I mean , because for me , as a journalist , for example , the air in the room has to be just a certain kind of still in order for me to be at peak performance. It's.

S3:

S2: Thing.

S3: Thing. You have it. Really ? Yeah. Yeah. See , I need chaos. I. I need phones ringing and people yelling and , uh , that's that's what I need. My dog barking. I need something going on in the background that says , no , you. Yeah , you better get on this or else you're gonna lose it. So , yeah , we're all different , Jane.

S2: You know , everybody's got their thing , uh , you know , uh , like. But when I'm reading , you know , sometimes when I'm reading , say , you know , a novel , I'm just blown away by by not just the story and the characters , but. But how the writer seemed to really create an entire universe for me to inhabit.

S3: You know , sometimes they come from your own experience. Uh , not that you have. Again , let's go back to Don Winslow for a second. Not that he has actually killed all of the people that are are killed in his , uh , in his amazing books. but he's been around. The kind of atmosphere that , uh , that creates , that kind of tension and , uh , and the authority figures and the people just trying to please their either parents or God or whomever. And out of that , uh , sort of emotional tension , you can create these characters , um , and , and get , uh , and get somewhere. But I think it's , it's really different for , for everybody. Amy Tan , for instance , she just needed to get back into her , her background and and her where she came from. And once she really connected with her ancestors and and her place of identity , uh , that's where her her writing really took off. On the one hand , she's writing about characters and and she's eavesdropping and things about things that are happening now. But she's really drawing from those those years and those generations from back in China. So it's really going to be different for everybody. Yeah.

S2: Yeah. Well , you you've got the non-fiction edition too , and you begin that nonfiction edition declaring that if you were to get one tattoo , it would say TT II. And that stands for the truth is interesting enough , which indeed it is. Mhm. Um , but why would that be the tattoo you'd get.

S3: Because I think I so I teach creative nonfiction here at Point Loma Nazarene University and I , and I teach writing seminars and all that and non-fiction writers. I don't think this is true of , of most of the journalists that I know , but but beginning non-fiction writers feel like to make their story more interesting. They need to embellish something , or they need to add some kind of tension or create some kind of , um , of problem. And my feeling is all it takes is one person to read that story and say , that isn't really how it happened. Uh , and then you've lost your credibility. And then why would we believe anything else in your story ? So my sense is you can tell a true and verifiably accurate story in an artful manner without making anything up. It's up to you. That's the craft of , uh , of you as a writer coming through. Uh , you don't have to make stuff up. And the ones who do , they end up getting outed anyway. Thank you. James Frey , thank you , Greg Mortensen. And , um , they end up getting outed anyway , so why would you even take the risk ? Mm.

S2: Very good , very good. Well , another interesting topic that comes up often in your author interviews is the reason they choose to write. And here's what Ray Bradbury , author of Fahrenheit 451 , told you back in 2001.

S4: The writing is a process of cleansing yourself as well as all the other things. We don't know how it works , but it does work. I haven't gone mad yet. Huh ? I've never used a psychiatrist. I've never used a psychoanalyst. Good writing is automatically a cleansing of the soul. Now , I don't quite know how it works , but if you do honest work , passionate work , and deal with your real fears , I think you're going to have a pretty good life. Hmm.

S2: Hmm. Wow. Writing as a way to cleanse the soul that is powerful.

S3: I don't want to put those folks out of my out of business. My daughter's a therapist. She needs. She needs all the clients she can get. So. So he's. I think he has a really , really good point , which is there is a healing quality to being able to hang language on your experience. And your experience can be a wonderful one. It can be a loving one. It can be something that just connects you to the big universe. It could also be something that's terrible and awful and and you've repressed it and you've kept it secret and you're ashamed of it. If you can hang some language on it , it actually takes the power of that shame away. And again , that that makes it sound like I'm , I'm a therapist or something. I'm not. But I but that is actually sometimes what therapists do. They're trying to get you to tell your story. And when you tell your story , those things that you thought were going to be so awful when they , uh , when they came to light. Maybe just to you by telling it in a story form. Uh , it it is a it is a healing , and , uh , it is a salve to a troubled soul. I 100% believe what Ray Bradbury just said. And I'm so glad you found that clip.

S2: Yeah , and it's a it's a vulnerable place to.

S3: Oh , man.

S2: Yeah , absolutely.

S3: Well , but that's that's the only reason why somebody would connect with it though , if , if I'm just going to give you platitudes in a story , then , okay , I can do that. If I'm going to really bare my soul , then I think another reader is going to look at that and say , oh , I can trust this , I can trust this , and I can. I can trust that echo that I'm hearing in my own heart. Hmm.

S2: Hmm. You know , no matter how successful. All writers at one time or another have to learn how to handle rejection. And you mentioned that a little bit earlier.

S3: Uh , Anne Lamott , I asked her about a bad review that she got , and she said , oh , you know , I didn't really pay attention to it. And then she quoted it word for word , you know. So it was just funny that that she was , uh , she was very much in tune with criticism. Um , I think everybody is a little bit thin skinned , maybe even more so these days , but , uh , but it's just part of the it's part of the deal. If you're going to put yourself out there , you just have to be ready for some either rejection that your story isn't good enough to get published or or whatever , and you're going to need to do it yourself , which is which is legitimate , especially these days. But rejection and criticism and those things , they kind of come with the territory. I asked Joyce Carol Oates about , uh , about it , and she said , yeah. This particular reviewer , uh , wanted her to to write a different book than the one she wrote. And so that was more on the reviewer than it was on , uh , on Joyce Carol Oates. It's just part of the reality. Hmm.

S2: Hmm. So. Well , aside from what you've learned about writing over the years from these conversations , what have you learned about interviewing writers ? That's what I'd like to know.

S3: Yeah , interviewing writers is so tricky because some are such total introverts that , uh , it takes a while to to really , um , get past the , um , the discomfort of talking about this. Jesmyn Ward , for instance , who I don't think she's in this , this volume because I think I had written it before my interview with her recently , but she's she's just a very introverted , shy person. So I had to very , very carefully move into what we really wanted to talk about to , to let her know that this wasn't going to be any gotcha. I don't think she was suspicious of that. She was just she just doesn't , um , necessarily like to talk about writing. And so I had to just be very careful , um , that I didn't just jump right into the , the , the heart and soul of what I wanted to get at. Then there are other people like Cornel West. I just said , why did why was , uh , Tolstoy and Kant and , um , and some of the , these others. Why were they so important to you ? I think that was my first question , and I probably didn't ask another question for 15 minutes. Not with Cornell. So not. Yeah , not with him. And and he was awesome.

S5: He was awesome. I mean , it.

S3: Just set him. Loose.

S5: Loose.

S3: Uh , so I think just like with any story , every interview is going to be different. And so you just have to prepare accordingly. Wow.

S2: Wow. Well , one recent study found a decline in the amount of time people read for pleasure. It found a big drop , actually , of about 40% over the past two decades.

S3: Um , every new technological advance has predicted the end of reading. When radio came about , people said , okay , that's people are going to stop reading. They're going to stop reading books. And then television came along. Okay , that's people aren't going to read anymore. Uh , the internet comes along. Okay. And now with AI , it just changes it. It just changes reading. It doesn't mean people aren't reading. I would say more than ever. A well-crafted story is as appealing as it's ever been , maybe even more so , but that well-crafted story may take the form of a TikTok video , or it may take the form of an Instagram reel , or a YouTube broadcast , or a podcast or something. Storytelling is still a fundamental human experience. If you don't read it in a book that you get from the library , okay , that may be diminished , but we're still getting stories and we're still telling stories , and that's what I think matters. Hmm.

S2: Hmm. Well , you just had an event at Warwick's to celebrate the books being released. What else do you have in store for Store.

S3: There's another book launch , part two , coming up on December 14th at San Diego Writers , Inc. in Liberty Station , right across from the , uh , uh , restaurant. And , uh , that'll be at 2 p.m. on a Sunday afternoon. And what I'm excited about there is I'm going to be interviewed by my son , Blake , who is a reporter for the Union Tribune. And he is very he shows me absolutely no respect. And he's , uh , and he's very funny. And so I'm kind of nervous about this , but , uh , we're going to talk about these books , uh , with him.

S2: Well , I'm interested to see how this this turns out for. Yeah.

S5: Yeah. Me too.

S2: All right , well , professor Dean Nelson is a journalism professor at Point Loma Nazarene University. That's where he also directs the writers symposium by the sea. Professor , thank you again so much for joining us today.

S3: It's always good talking to you. Jade , thank you.

S2: And we'll have a link to his event at San Diego Writers , Inc. on December 14th on our website , which is KPBS , dawg.

S1: Up next , our midday movies critics join us for a lesson in tactical frivolity. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. Welcome back to Midday Edition. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hindman. Since current protests have taken on a decidedly more theatrical , even humorous tone are midday movies , critics wanted to explore the notion of tactical frivolity as a tool. We see a demonstrated in the Portland protesters wearing inflatable costumes , and we will look into how tactical frivolities played out in films. Joining us once again are KPBS Cinema Junkie , Beth Accomando and movie Wallace podcaster Yazdi. Welcome back to midday.

S6: Thank you. Thank you.

S1: Great to have you back. So , Beth , let's break it down. Start by defining tactical frivolity. Sure.

S6: Sure. So I'm someone who really does love , like , rebellion and pop culture and humor. And when all that mixes together , like with the Portland frog , you know this guy who's in an inflatable costume standing up against Ice agents ? It takes on this level of absurdity and performance that really sort of intrigued me and inspired me. And I discovered this website called Beautiful Treble that has this toolbox where you can look for theories , principles , practices of things that will help you in a protest and maybe get you more attention by doing something unconventional. And one of those tools is what's called tactical frivolity , which is epitomized by the Portland frog. And I spoke to L.M. Bogard , who wrote a book called Tactical Performance Theory and Practice of Serious Play. And here are some of the things he said about tactical frivolity.

S7: It's about a refutation of the authorities version of events , refuting their story in a playful way , and telling our story in a playful way while being just disarmingly charming. Because how mad can you be at a frog in Portland ? And I refer to this as radical ridicule. It makes people more angry , maybe a little less angry , or at least less able to act violently on that anger. I like to think of it as serious play , because you're taking the problem seriously enough to work harder and be funny. So I like to think of tactical frivolity as an element of charismatic action , action that attracts more people.

S1: Beth , let's bring it back to film. You want to start off with a film that's gotten quite a bit of attention in the last few years , even though it came out decades ago at this point. And that's Mike Judge's Idiocracy. Here's the setup.

S8: As the 21st century began , human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection the process by which the strongest , the smartest , the fastest reproduced in greater numbers than the rest , a process which at once favored the noblest traits of man , now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on , things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen ? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence with no natural predators to thin the herd. It began to simply reward those who reproduced the most and left the intelligent to become an endangered species.

S1: So that's the intro there of Idiocracy. Kind of framed as a documentary there. But Beth , tell us how that's an example of cinematic tactical frivolity. Sure.

S6: Sure. So people joke about this having been a comedy and now going like , oh no , it's really a documentary. It was totally prescient. So this is Mike judge , who people may not remember , but he created Beavis and Butt-Head as well as Office Space , so he knows how to use humor to push buttons , and he knows how to make it ridiculous and absurd , but also still kind of touching on the things we all feel we know. And one of the keys to tactical frivolity is to also be able to make fun of yourself. So in Idiocracy , Those yuppies , the yuppie couple who wants to be very smart and planned for their family. He makes fun of them as much as he makes fun of kind of the redneck family that's reproducing like rabbits. And the other key is just ridiculous extremes. So this takes the notion of like , the world has become so stupid that this dumb guy from the present day is the most intelligent person. These people do not even know you have to water crops to make them grow.

S1: They use Gatorade , right ? Yeah.

S6: And they have President Camacho , who's Terry Crews who is hilarious. But , you know , there's a lot of things buried in this also that feel like , oh my God , you were making fun of stuff that now feels like it's part of our life today. And so I think that's part of the key to why this is tactical frivolity is he does have sort of a political message he wants to make , but he is coming at it from this roundabout , ridiculous This manner where if you don't get the message , that's fine.

S1:

S9: So like you Andrew , I watched it recently as well. And what I like about the movie is it's a satire. There's a lot of jokes about how we might be 100 years from now. The original title of the movie , by the way , was supposed to be 3001 for the year in which the movie transpires , but I think it's very serious about it the entire time. Like , there isn't much of a wink , like , all of that stuff is played very seriously , and I think that's why it kind of holds up very well. It does seem pretty prescient in terms of predicting our current world , where education or science is not held to a high standard , and the movie is also very resolutely anti-intellectual. Right. So in that future world , being intelligent is frowned upon. But I think the film's cachet has grown over the years and Oh , immensely.

S1: It seems like.

S9: Yeah , right. And you can especially tell from the last act of the movie where it's particularly contemptuous of , uh , dumbing down at the government level.

S1: So using humor , you know , to comment on politics. It's not new. One of your favorite sources of this goes all the way back to the Marx Brothers.

S6: Yes , I love the Marx Brothers. And like Monty Python , they're all about anarchy. There is nothing sacred in the world of Monty Python or the Marx Brothers. So the Marx Brothers made fun of anything that remotely touched upon authority. And that's where I think that notion of their frivolity comes in , because there is nothing sacred. And so they were at their peak in the 1930s. Groucho was an incredibly verbal and hilarious comedian. And so here he plays Rufus T Firefly in Duck Soup , and he is happy to sing about the corruption in his administration.

S10: The last man nearly ruined this place. He didn't know what to do with it. If you think this country is bad off Now. I'll just wait till I get through with it. I will not stand for anything that's crooked or unfair. I'm strictly on the up and up. So everyone beware. If anyone's caught taking graft and I don't get my share. We stand them up against the wall and pop goes the weasel.

S6: So the target of a lot of their humor in this film is countries going to war over ridiculous reasons. And there's a long battle scene at the end in which Groucho , in every scene , has a different uniform. So he's Confederate , he's Union , he's British. It doesn't matter. He gets accused of shooting his own men at one point and then bribes the guy to keep it quiet. So it's a fabulous film. It holds up 100% like their humor. I strongly believe that when you make fun of authority , your humor will never go out.

S1: It's a timelessness to it. Right ? Yeah. And Yazdi , you have another classic on your list , this one from Charlie Chaplin. Yeah.

S9: Yeah. So the Great Dictator , I think is simply one of the best movies ever made. Charlie Chaplin plays a double role in the movie. He's a poor Jewish barber who is drafted off to war and who suffers amnesia as a soldier. And the other role is this megalomaniac dictator , Henkel , of the fictitious country Tasmania. And so Chaplin could have made a movie which was very serious about his growing concern about the approach of the Second World War. But his taking all of it in a humorous Wayne makes all the difference.

S10: Yes , dictator of the world will start with the invasion of Australia. After that , he won't have to fight. We can bluff. Nation after nation will capitulate. Within two years , the world will be under your thumb.

S11: Believe me.

S10: I want.

S11: To be alone.

S9: And since you can't see this in the clip you're about to air. Let me just tell you. Chaplin is kind of a little child. Almost as Heinkel , as he's playing with this globe and floating it up in the air and kind of almost being wizardry about it. And you can see that he's comical , even as he's literally thinking of the world eventually becoming his own possession.

S12: Now Caesar out no less. Emperor of the world.

S9: So obviously , Hinkle , your stance stands in for Hitler. But in addition to the frivolity that was at display in most of the movie , there's also very dark material here. And it's pretty serious for a movie made in the 1940s.

S1: Beth , you know , these types of movies aren't just relegated to the era of World War II and earlier in the century. You have a more recent film that uses a dictator as a central character. Tell us about that. Yes.

S6: Yes. So this is a film called The Dictator , and it stars Sacha Baron Cohen. Now he lives his life as kind of tactical frivolity. He impersonates or he creates characters for himself that he goes out into the world as and never makes a distinction that he's playing a role. So in 2012 , he collaborated with Larry Charles on The Dictator , and this is a speech where he had he's playing a sort of generic Middle East dictator , and he wants to keep his country safe from democracy. And so this is the kind of speech where you may feel like you want to both laugh and cry.

S13: Why are you guys so anti dictators ? Imagine if America was a dictatorship. You could let 1% of the people have all the nation's wealth. You could help your rich friends get richer by cutting their taxes and bailing them out when they gamble and lose. You could ignore the needs of the poor for health care and education. Your media would appear free , but would secretly be controlled by one person and his family. You could wiretap phones. You could torture foreign prisoners. You could have rigged elections. You could lie about why you go to war. You could fill your presence with one particular racial group and no one would complain. You could use the media to scare the people into supporting policies that are against their interests. I know this is hard for you Americans to imagine , but please try. Yeah.

S1: Yeah.

S5: Really hurts.

S1: Yeah , yeah , a lot , a lot there. Yazdi , you love a comedy that's not overtly political , but but makes fun of a real dictator and Hitler. Yeah.

S9: Yeah. We just talked about The Great Dictator and Charlie Chaplin's attempt at tactical frivolity there , but Mel Brooks did his own version in the original producers , which came out in 1967 , and it's about a theater producer who plans to mount a play so awful that it is a sure to be a flop. So he writes a play that is a love letter to Hitler , And it's titled springtime for Hitler.

S14: Springtime for Hitler and Germany. Come on , Germans , go into your desk.

S15: I was born in Dusseldorf , and that is why they call me Rolf.

S16: Don't be stupid. Be a smarty. Come and join the Nazi Party.

S9: So , Mel Brooks satire , of course , is on point because it comes to pass in the film that the audience actually , instead of being appalled and horrified , which they are initially , they come to recognize the play to be trenchant humor in a great satire , and the whole play becomes a huge hit. And but I truly believe that nothing serious that Mel Brooks could have written could have been more effective at condemning Hitler than , you know , his version of The Producers.

S1: Beth , one of your favorite political comedies is The Death of Stalin , Darling , you know , tell us about this because it's more recent. Obviously , the death of Stalin happened decades and decades ago. But tell us why. You know , it just stands out to you.

S6: So I love Armando Iannucci. He's a brilliant satirist. He displayed this in The Thick of It , which was a British show that made fun of British politics. And then he made fun of American politics with Veep. During the first presidency of Donald Trump , he quit Veep. I had a chance to interview him , and he said comedy writers could not compete with the absurdity of the real world , and he felt like he had no place writing this show about contemporary politics. And that , I think , led him to do Death of Stalin. So you're going back in history. You're looking to the moment when Stalin did die. He casts a bunch of American British actors. He makes no pretence at having fake Russian accents. He just throws them out there in this absolutely savagely , expertly written comedy. So you're just sucked into the shenanigans that are going on.

S1: And they're all just stumbling over each other to see who can take control.

S6: So it's just insane. It's the chaos that comes when this authoritarian figure dies and nobody is ready for who's next. And there's this one scene , this one line that again , it's this moment of brutally funny and utterly chilling and absolutely sticks with me. So here's this. One of my favorite dark lines from this film.

S17: Shoot her before him , but make sure he sees it. Oh. This one. Um. Kill him , take him to his church , dump him in the pulpit , and I'll leave the rest up to you.

S6: So the pettiness of this cruelty is both absurdly funny and absolutely horrific. And I love the way throughout this movie , he walks this line between extreme absurdity and absolutely trenchant , like satiric points that he's making. Yeah.

S1: Yeah. So you're going to take us out with , you know , one pretty extreme example of ridiculousness and frivolity , and that's South Park.

S9: Listen , who does not love South Park ? South Park style has always been that it gets to the dark themes. It has a lot of profanity , but it kind of has equal contempt for everyone. And over 28 seasons since it started in 1997 , the show has been like really the bellwether for satire in the country. I mean , you know , obviously they had the South Park movie , which is a standalone piece of Marvel. But what I really like to see about South Park is that it initially started out trying to shock people and being more scatological in its humor , but with time it's progressed into becoming more about , you know , social satire and political satire. So it's really matured. And perhaps the most absurd was when the people living in South Park decide to blame Canada for what's wrong with the country. And here's a clip.

S18: Times have changed. Our kids are getting worse. They won't obey their parents. They just want a force and curse.

S19:

S18:

S14: Have it all.

S18: For their beady little eyes and clap their hands. All my life.

S14: I've done it all. I've had enough.

S18: We need to form a full assault.

S1: Well , that sounds like a great and frivolous way to end our discussion of tactical frivolity. I want to thank our critics. KPBS Cinema Junkie , Beth Accomando and movie Wallace podcaster Yazdi Avila.

S6: Thank you so much.

S9: Thank you.

S1: Coming up , we hear about some of the arts events you don't want to miss this weekend. Stay tuned. Midday edition returns after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hindman. For this weekend's arts preview , along with some performances and visual art , we're kicking off Thanksgiving week with some food inspired recommendations and events. And joining me with all the details is KPBS arts reporter and host of the finest podcast , Julia Dixon Evans. Hey , Julia.

S20: Hey , Andrea. Thanks for having me.

S1: Great to see you. So let's start with books and vegan butter. Yeah.

S20: Yeah. I'm going to do a couple of food related arts recommendations in a row. I'm hungry. I know about you. So Miyoko Skinner is the founder former CEO of Miyoko Yoko's creamery. Um , I don't know if you know about them , but they really changed the game for plant based dairy. Just over a decade ago. She's now on faculty at Berkeley and has a new cookbook out. It's called the Vegan Creamery. Plant based cheese , milk , ice cream and more. And Sheena is doing two events in town on a book tour. The first is tonight at the book catapult. She'll be joined by local vegan cookbook and blogger extraordinaire , Nisha Vohra. And then tomorrow , Friday , she has an 11 a.m. lecture that's at the UC San Diego bookstore on campus. It's titled How to Fix the Food System and Fight the Oligarchy. And both of those events are free.

S1: Very cool. And you know , I'm not a vegan. You are right , right. But you don't have to be vegan to kind of appreciate something you don't. Yeah. Yeah.

S20: Yeah.

S1: So , you know , let's stick with the food theme. Keep it going. What else is happening this weekend in that that area.

S20: So I'll preface this one by saying this is an exhibit at the University of San Diego Art Gallery and Campus galleries. They do amazing things , but they often do have pretty limited hours , usually just during the weekday. But maybe you have some flexibility to take a long lunch or you have a day off coming up for the holidays. Because open right now at the USD fine Art Gallery is Antonio Davis's Because We Eat , and it's about the impact of the food we eat on the farm workers who grow it , and they get it to our grocery store shelves. So it's like the physical , emotional , environmental , financial stresses and dangers of that kind of work. At the center of this exhibit is this big dining table installation. There's this embroidered quilted tablecloth , and then at each place setting are etched plates and ceramics. And on these plates , they tell the stories of individual farmworkers. And Davis wants viewers to consider the repercussions of cheap food , which is something to keep in mind as the holiday season approaches , especially with such this focus on preparing and sharing food together and giving thanks. This gallery is open tomorrow , Friday afternoon. Their hours are 12 to 4:30 p.m.. Next week it's open a couple hours Monday through Wednesday and the exhibit will be up through December 19th and it's free.

S1: That's really interesting to kind of reframe food because as you mentioned , like we're kind of think it's a big part of our lives the next , you know , the. Next.

S20: Next.

S1: Couple of months. Yeah. Um , and it's a beautiful campus in the University of San Diego , too , of course. So on Saturday , there's a potluck happening at the Pearl of the Pacific sculpture Park on Shelter Island. Tell us about this one.

S20: So , the Pearl of the Pacific , it's part of James Hubble's Pacific Rim Park program , his foundation that Ellen Leal Foundation , they host an annual potluck there. It's like an art potluck. And the park is one of eight public art field parks around the Pacific Rim , created in collaboration between Hubble and artists around the world. The potluck is Saturday from 11 to 3. It's open to the public. It's free , and guests are invited to bring a dish to share , but it is not required if you have , like a potluck aversion.

S5: Very cool.

S1: So next we have a contemporary dance production , and this one is inspired by , you know , some pretty awful tragedies that happened in Encinitas.

S20: The show is called this. Um , Litvak is this contemporary dance company based in North County. And director Sadie Weinberg said that she was compelled to do something after two local children were killed by vehicles in Encinitas , including her neighbor , 12 year old Emery. And she wanted to explore the grief , the complicated emotions in the aftermath of such a tragedy. So she called on several choreographers to create works that they tried to figure out how to find beauty in the midst of something like this. And Litvak dance is a pretty incredible company. They took some time off recently , and it's just great to see them back on stages , and their approach to contemporary dance is just really thoughtful. It's powerful and expressive , but also accessible this weekend. These performances there at 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. on Saturday and Sunday , and this is at the San Dieguito Academy Theater in Encinitas.

S1: Well , well. The Museum of Contemporary Art San Diego in La Jolla is opening a new exhibit today , and that's celebrating pop art.

S20: Yeah , this is called A Decade of Pop Prints and Multiples , 1962 to 1972 , the Frank Mitchell Collection. So this is a gift to the museum. Um , 60 pop art prints. They span decades. And , you know , this is an art movement that really got started in like the 1950s. And the collection was sort of illustrates the growth of the style in the United States and in Europe. There's pieces from Great Britain as well in the show. It's a really accessible art style. It's inspired by popular culture , mass media , advertising and Warhol. Yeah , yeah , for sure. You think about the the color block soup cans and , um , yeah , it brought in all those bright colors and the techniques as well. It wasn't really seen in fine art until this movement. Um , there are prints in this collection from Robert Rauschenberg , Jasper Johns , Klaus Oldenburg and Venezuelan American artist Marisol. It opens today. The museum has their free third Thursday event , so admission is free today only. And they're also open late until 7 p.m. it'll be on view through mid-March. So you have time. Great.

S1: Great. So we have about a minute left. But I know you had a couple quick things on live music. What's some live music happening this weekend ? Yeah.

S20: So this one is a free happy hour performance. Um , 4:30 p.m. on Friday at La Jolla music society's outdoor Wu Tsai courtyard. And this is Steph Johnson quartet. She'll perform. Steph Johnson is the voices of our city choir director. She also has quartet features Rob Thorsen , Melody Grinnell , Richard Sellers. Uh , Steph has such a soulful voice. We're listening to our track. I wish I knew.

S21: I wish I knew , but only you came.

S20: Answer and one more. Some garage rock and pop at Soda Bar on Sunday night. There's a great line up. Two local bands , corduroy and the band cope and LA pop act Kit major. Um. Both the local acts have recent music out. This is the band cope , their track Undone The Quilt Song. It's from their new EP. It just came out this month.

S1: You can find details on these and more arts events on our website at pbs.org. I've been speaking with KPBS Arts reporter and host of The Finest podcast. Julie Dixon Evans. Julia. Thanks.

S20: Thank you. Andrea. It's been fun.

S1: That's our show for today. I'm Andrew Bracken. KPBS Midday Edition airs on KPBS FM weekdays at noon , again at 8 p.m.. You can find past episodes of KPBS or wherever you listen. Thanks again for listening. Have a great day.

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The covers for the books, "Talking to Writers" by author and Writer's Symposium By the Sea director, Dean Nelson, are seen in this graphic.
Courtesy of Dean Nelson
The covers for the books, "Talking to Writers" by author and Writer's Symposium By the Sea founder Dean Nelson, are seen in this graphic.

Over the past 30 years, Point Loma Nazarene University professor Dean Nelson has sat down with some of the most prominent writers in the literary world to talk about their craft.

He compiles the insights from those conversations into two new books, "Talking to Writers" β€” one focused on fiction, the other nonfiction.

Then, our Midday Movies critics unpack the concept of "tactical frivolity" and discuss films that use satire, humor and theatricality to respond to the political moment.

And finally, it's another busy weekend in the arts. KPBS arts reporter Julia Dixon Evans shares her top picks for things to do.

Guests: