S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Governor Gavin Newsom announces plans to tackle AI safety before he leaves office. We talk about what he's looking to do and why he thinks the stakes are too high to wait. Recent warnings over AI dangers have led to calls to slow down its development. We speak with a panel of technology reporters about what's been happening and how we got here. We also share what it's been like to cover AI through what's been a whirlwind of news and discussion. Then a new show featuring live music is coming to KPBS and bringing the spirit of college radio along with it. It's coming up in the KPBS roundtable. Since ChatGPT was released to the public back in late 2022. We've had a lot of conversations about how AI has been changing our jobs , our schools , our health. But over the past couple of weeks , the conversation around AI has shifted sharply to focusing on safety and its potential dangers for , quite frankly , the future of humanity. Earlier today , California Governor Gavin Newsom released an executive order looking to take action on AI safety through a number of efforts. And we're going to dig into some of those now. Here to talk more about it. I'm joined now by Steven Counsel. He is a senior tech reporter with Business Insider along with Chase de Feliciano Antonio. He covers AI and automation policy for Politico and also writes for the California Decoded newsletter. Chase , Steven. Welcome to the show.
S2: Thanks for having me.
S3: Thanks for having us , Andrew.
S1: Yeah , great to be here. I know it's been quite a week. I imagine so , Stephen. Just really high level here. What did the governor announce Friday morning?
S3: Yeah , this is an executive order. It's a little bit of a committee to make more committees to figure out new rules down the line. This is not all of a sudden a , you know , law passing that's going to rein in the companies. But what the governor is doing here is , uh , pointing to the recent safety fears and , um , suggesting both the a new oversight group in , uh , California and also trying to bump up California's legislation that would get it more to a place similar to Illinois , which is the strongest in the country right now when it comes to requiring , uh , third party , uh , evaluators to look at these AI companies. And basically , Newsom here is also trying to sort of take the fight to , uh , his enemy in the white House , making it clear that he's going to be one of these people who's going to who's going to act on AI policy?
S1: Yeah , I definitely want to touch on that kind of political piece. But , um , you know , you mentioned the several committees there , what's actually in here? And Chase , I want to turn to you. I mean , you basically broke the story yesterday. You spoke with the with the governor on Thursday. Was this the announcement you were expecting this morning?
S2: Um , it was one of the announcements we were kind of expecting. He when I spoke to him , um , he kind of laid out the menu of options that we were that he was at the time , considering. So he was kind of pointing to the possibility of an executive order or executive orders calling a special session of the California State Legislature. The state legislature finished a few weeks ago for the year. Um , all those members went home happy , looking forward to a nice long vacation. But the governor is his prerogative. He can always call them back for particular issue , which he's done in the past , not on AI but on other topics. And then he also raised the possibility of , you know , some kind of regulatory action going through a California state agency , you know , privacy , consumer protection , what have you. Would kind of be my guess there. So you could see where his mind was going. It sounded like he hadn't quite made up his mind there. So this was a version of what we were expecting. I think it's also just to build on what Steven said. It's also , um , you know , maybe worth noting here that he signed the executive order. Now he's standing up this committee , which is a process , you know , working group process that he likes to use that he's done in the past on AI. Um , but I believe they have to give some sort of recommendations in a couple of months. He could still , in theory , call a special session down the line here. He's , uh , he's still governor until , I believe , very early January. Um , and special sessions. When I spoke to him , he even made reference to this. They can be messy. Um. They can. Once lawmakers are in session , a lot of different things can happen. and it can go in different directions. It's not always easy to rein in , but I think that's all to say. This is kind of maybe the beginning of a process that's potentially going to play out for the rest of the year , or at least the rest of his , his what's left of his governorship. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And as you mentioned , he has , you know , called for special sessions before , although as you note , it's not always like super easy. It doesn't mean that new policy will come from that or a new law will come from that chase. One thing that jumped out to me about your reporting yesterday after talking with the governor is like it just seemed when you spoke with him , he was still trying to figure all this out. I think he even mentioned I always had papers in the car that , you know , while he was speaking with you. Um , I don't know. What else did you take away from that conversation about how he's how he's thinking about this issue and what may , you know , actually come from this committee ultimately down the line? Yeah.
S2: Yeah. It was interesting when I spoke to him. I mean , obviously , these folks are folks like the governor of California , are quite well media trained. And they're , you know , they stay on message. And I only tell you as much as they want to. No matter sometimes how much you press. But he did give me the impression with that image that you're kind of evoking there that this was something that he had been thinking about , probably talking about with advisers. And he made reference to talking about , um , a response here , um , with representatives of AI labs , AI safety folks , leaders in the legislature kind of giving the impression that he was talking to a wide range of people. You know , he said , we've been on this since the hugging , face , hack hugging face incident , which is something that obviously happened in July when Open the Ice programs went rogue and kind of set off this current round of scaring the heck out of everybody. But if you also talk to him , he he typically will give reporters. And he said this a little bit to me as well , the impression that , you know , this is a topic that he is , you know , long studied and looked into for a very , very long time going back years that he's talked to all these labs and experts for a long time , that it's not like he's coming to this as as a new issue. But I think that just points to a lot of things , one of them being the complexity of of getting this right. I think even going back to 2024 with the big AI safety laws. 1047 from State Senator Scott Wiener that he vetoed , that was more wide ranging. But now you're seeing some of the proposals in that bill that he at that time rejected for a variety of reasons in his executive order or being talked about in the executive order on this idea of like a potential kill switch for dangerous AI programs , having a basically a back end shut off. Um , it these things are kind of cyclical , and I think it points to how much the moment has kind of advanced and maybe how much pressure there is on people like Newsom to to really have a response. And but it's not easy to figure out exactly what the parameters of that response necessarily need to be. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And you mentioned this kill switch. Um , and I kind of want to just Stephen , throw it over to you. Can you just basically explain what that kill switch is? As Chace mentioned , this was something that's been discussed over the past couple of years in various legislation has not made it through. But this is something that he notes in his , you know , his executive order , this idea of like AI kill switch. Right?
S3: Right? You know , it's an appealing idea. The , you know , concept that , okay , when AI is , you know , getting out of control will have some way to turn it right off.
S1: Just unplug it and then it's done. Right? Yeah.
S3: Throw a bucket of water on the on the data center , you know , whatever , whatever it may be. Um , this , you know , is an incredibly complicated thing to figure out , though , for the industry as well as for , you know , regulators. Um , you know , creating a kill switch is an idea that I think a lot of people can get behind in theory. But the way that these technologies have been advancing , um , it's a really open question. You know , we've seen how , you know , AI models are getting better at cyber. All things cybersecurity , including cyber attacks. We're seeing how they're getting better at communicating with one another , both during the research process and after the fact. You know , there's even the idea that , you know , these models could communicate with each other , um , by , you know , raising or lowering the temperatures of , you know , systems to communicate. You know , you know , yes or no , for instance. And so this idea of figuring out a way to , you know , rein in a technology with a kill switch is , I think , a big sort of regulatory priority. But the reason why , you know , this is advanced , the creation , quote unquote , as Newsome calls it , is there's not a sort of simple , you know , this is the thing that we need to employ. Um , it's why , you know , he's calling for this committee to think about it. I'm sure that this will also put some pressure on the industry to come up with its own proposals for ways that this could look.
S1: And Steven , you know , you touched on this and I'm glad you did. It just seems like we've come so far and just kind of like how we think about AI. You mentioned this. I think it was revelation by an , you know , someone at OpenAI , but how computers essentially offline could essentially communicate to one another , being completely offline , not connected at all through just simply like the temperature of that. And they could theoretically communicate that way. Right. Is that.
S3: Pretty theoretical? But it's one of these things that we need to think about as we're thinking , okay , how do you actually keep an AI system inside a sandbox contained? Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S3: And , you know , a good example is in this instance recently , AI agents were writing to each other by changing the names on files in the system. So that's a way to communicate that the humans that were running them hadn't even thought of , um , you know , and the more often that these agents can communicate with each other , the more capable they'll be of running off and causing some kind of real world harms on their own. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So going back , I mean , a little earlier , Chase mentioned hugging face. This is just a common , you know , the hugging face attack , the hugging face incident. We've heard a lot about it. But Stephen , can you just give us , you know , a basic like recap of what that was and why it was so significant for our understanding of how what AI you know , how AI works right now. Certainly.
S3: Certainly. Yeah. You know , OpenAI and other model makers spend a lot of time testing and tweaking their models inside the companies as they build them. Part of that is making them better , you know , running them against various tests and tasks. Um , one of those tests that they were running these models against was called Exploit Jim. It's kind of a cybersecurity test. Um , these models , uh , you know , rather than try to figure out , uh , you know , the answers to this test that these models , you know , we're trying to figure out to pass. They also realize maybe they could kind of fool with the scorer of the test. Um , eventually they started communicating with one another to try to get better scores on the test and and mess with the scorer. And this led to this collaboration. You know , it was called the swarm of agents in some of the reports about it , uh , where these AI systems were kind of able to work together , hack their way out of OpenAI onto the open internet and then into the infrastructure of the company hugging face. Um , this is a really notable moment for the AI labs because even though it's not technically kind of real world , you're not seeing anything out there. It is real world in the sense of , you know , this is an actual company. That system was breached by AI agents from another firm. Um , and those AI agents had not been ordered to do that in any way. It was a bit of a wake up call. I think the ensuing reports about the incident have also been Wake-Up calls , as sort of the extent of how many agents there were has become known to people and and how they were communicating with each other and how some of them were even sabotaged , you know , sacrificing themselves to learn more and give information back to the swarm of other agents. It's very sci fi , and I think at the same time as it's helped people understand how capable of these AI agents are who weren't in the industry. It's made people who are in the industry realize that they really need to get ahead of this. Um , it sort of kicked off some of these worries about the way that we train models , the way that we are testing them , how good they're getting , new safeguards that we need to put into place. Uh , all of these things are compounding and have kind of kicked off the the summer of AI safety that we've had since. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And Chase , you know , um , talking about this hugging face incident , there have also been just more and more revelations or just incidents being reported. Just this week , OpenAI released some new incidents , including some of this like , I don't know , like really intentional deception by AI. Um , Chase , I'm just wondering what we've learned about AI safety , you know , since this all started this summer with this hugging face incident. How do you see it? Yeah.
S2: Yeah. First of all , Steven , that was a great summation of that whole hack and how it brought us to where we are now. I just learned something myself. Um , but , you know , I would say that what we've learned about AI safety , um , is that it's like. I mean , the kill switch is a good example where that sounds like a good idea , and it's something where policy is kind of pushing tech to figure something out. Um , it's not just like tech has these answers and they just have to install the seatbelt and they have it in the factory. We just have to rewrite the law to require them to do so. Um , I mean , some of these because it is a new technology , some of these issues are things Um , that don't quite have. Like there's a construct. So the idea of , um , third party evaluators and these , these two laws that were passed that Newsom signed at the , um , recently , a few weeks ago. Um , you know , how should these evaluators be registered with the state? How should their credentials be evaluated? You know , how should their ethical and financial considerations be be evaluated? I mean , these are ideas that have roots going back quite a few years. Um , um , academics , folks who used to work at OpenAI kind of thinking about this concept of independent third party evaluators , so-called Evos , and how that might work. This is the kind of thing that goes from kind of like intellectual exercise years ago to kind of being circulated within the policy community , but and then eventually becoming law. But those two bills that are now laws have been around since last year. Both of them ended up being two year bills in the California State Legislature. Um , and they weren't things that people were really paying a lot of attention to at the time. In the policy community , I was writing about them. Um , just because , you know , that's what Politico does , and it's part of my job description. And they were really interesting. And I was kind of delving into where did this come from and how did these folks come up with this , and who are these groups behind this who are were advocating for this? But it wasn't like that was super important last year. Last year was Scott Weiner and SB 53. And , you know , big frontier AI safety and transparency. That was where the conversation was. Um , and then , you know , something happens , like the hugging face attack and then also these subsequent , um , I don't know if disclosures is the right word , but discoveries of of additional autonomous hacks and cybersecurity incidents from OpenAI , but also anthropic agents as well. The companies mentioned that. So now you kind of have a different moment where the focus shifts. And now we're talking about how do we do third party verification , which a year ago was a very , very different conversation.
S1: Yeah , we'll dig more into it. Now we're going to take a short break , but we'll continue our conversation about AI safety next. This is KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Today we've been talking about what's been a whirlwind of news around artificial intelligence , including an announcement this morning from California Governor Gavin Newsom around AI safety. And I'm joined by a group of tech journalists covering Silicon Valley and AI. I'm here with POLITICO's Chase de Felicia Antonio , along with Stephen Counsell from Business Insider. And now I also want to bring in Natasha Tiku into the conversation. She covers tech culture with The Washington Post. Natasha , welcome.
S4: Thanks for having me.
S1: So now I want to kind of shift gears. We've been covering what's in this executive order that Newsom announced some of the recent developments around the concerns over AI safety , and now I want to lead to another development. Earlier this month , in what became quite a viral post , former AI researcher Jacob Coxon resigned from anthropic , saying he feared that AI could kill us all by the end of the decade. That led to other , you know , some responses largely agreeing with that , even putting a number on that possibility of saying it's greater than 10% , I think is what one researcher put it , that , you know , humanity could end within the next decade. Just a lot of discussion about the dangers of AI in a real dramatic way. Natasha , I'm wondering like how what it's been like as someone that's covered AI and covered AI safety for far longer than this discussion has been happening what the past couple of weeks have been like , how have surprised have you been by these revelations and the reaction to them?
S4: I mean , I think we as a country have not at all invested in AI literacy. We're still struggling with digital literacy around social media. So , um , you know , the total confusion and tension and anxiety is not surprising. I mean , it's very dismaying. I think you're seeing , um , you know , the kind of language used by a very specific group that's more used to talking to each other. Um , you know , but up against the real world. Like , I was getting questions from my dad. Um , you know , my my friends , about how do you interpret this? I , I think it's probably helpful to know that , um , this 10% figure that you're hearing is just a subjective probability. Um , you know , these researchers , they do believe it. Um , you know , everything they were saying about how reflective this is of the people who work at the leading companies. That is true. But this is not a figure that has been , um , you know , there's no shared formula. This hasn't been vetted by a group of experts. This is not based on , you know , counting out some specific figures. It is based on , um , a community that likes to give probabilities and likes to give predictions. And , um , you know , has been worried about these risks around extinction long before ChatGPT was even , you know , a glimmer in Sam Altman's eye. So I think that's important context to have as you're trying to assess , um , you know , how freaked out to be.
S1: I think that's a great point. And that's something I kind of want to dive into more is just this divide between how all of this is being thought of within Silicon Valley and just larger , as you mentioned , you were getting like text messages about this in ways , you know , Chase , you know , Politico actually released a poll recently saying there seems to be a lot of concern. I think it's like nearly two thirds of Americans believe AI pose , you know , poses at least a moderate risk of destroying humanity. Um , you know , what about you? What is this moment tell you about? You know how we're thinking about AI.
S2: Yeah , I think , I mean , to Natasha's point , like , a lot of these concerns have been around for a long time , particularly in this community of AI researchers , and that in the same way that , like the hugging face attacks , all these agents kind of like break out of testing and go into the real world. I feel like you're kind of seeing this moment where now there's kind of a locus for those concerns where maybe there wasn't before , and now those concerns are breaking out of the labs and into the real world and into people's lives , like , you know , your parents or your friends or whatever it may be. I mean , I think there's kind of yeah , the probabilities are hard to , to , to pin down. I think there's kind of an understanding now that , oh , we can see how it could go from these programs are trying to beat a test and perform this strange hack that was scary. But like no one died and it wasn't dangerous and it wasn't a catastrophic thing to we could also lose control and they could knock out the power grid. And I think that's why you're seeing a Numbers like in that poll de reference from Politico , where I think this has kind of been this drumbeat in the background of media in the news for some years ago. It could kill us all and kill us all. And I think , um , you know , it was generally terrifying , but there wasn't a reason to believe that. And I think now it's clear to the general public , and I mean , frankly , it's clear to to me as well , after these events of how A might lead to B , and then I think that's why you're seeing , um , what you've seen for the last week and a half , two weeks of these calls to so-called pace , the frontier to essentially like slow down AI training and capabilities until regulation and safety checks can catch up. To have these third party groups check for safety before going forward and creating ever more powerful models , I think. And then obviously , like what happened today? You have Governor Newsom signing an executive order and basically every other political personage across the country , um , at the local , state and federal level talking about this issue , even if they're not necessarily talking about what needs to change. I think these concerns have now manifested themselves in the real world , and I think there's now a lot more public pressure , like , um , reflected by that poll from Politico that you referenced , among many others , to actually , quote unquote , do something. And that's why you have movement on executive orders , kill switches. How do we do this? What are the technical particulars of keeping people safe with an emerging technology?
S1: Stephen , I mean , what about you? I'm just curious , what surprised you more about , you know , like these warnings coming from those in the industry that we've seen or just the greater response to them? What's what's been the bigger surprise for you as someone that has been , you know , you've been , you know , following reporting on this A to B kind of transition that Chase was talking about. Great.
S3: Great. Yeah it's interesting. I mean , I think Natasha had a great piece about how these people have been , you know , attempting to get these issues on Washington's radar for a while. And I think it's part of the dynamic here is that , um , these researchers have these are largely people who expected AI to improve a lot. And I think three years ago that might have been harder for people to understand. But the hugging face incident and the ways that people are seeing AI get moved into their companies and their lives. Those things help people understand how this technology is improving and the capabilities of the agents are improving. Um , I think that that makes it a lot easier to trust the people who are making these types of kind of out their wild predictions , because all of a sudden we're realizing that they were right about part of it. Um , and so the , the extinction fear part of it becomes a little more top of mind. Yeah. Um.
S1: Natasha , you know , want to dig into a little bit what Steven just mentioned there because you've covered , you know , the AI safety movement for years now. How has that been changed by these events over the past few weeks and months?
S4: I mean , I think they feel extremely vindicated , but , um , yeah , I would just I think it's important context to know that this is a , a at least a decade long project to have these concerns , um , you know , become a B , be treated as like the most urgent issue of our time. Um , and to develop , um , a network of people in policy , in government , in the media and within the companies who also prioritize this set of concerns. So when you're hearing a chorus of people affirm it , I think it's really important to know that , um , you know , it is still coming from the same community. And I think that we're seeing , you know , that they have been correct about the pace of progress , um , as Steven was saying , but I don't think that people who work at Frontier Labs are perhaps best , um , best suited to talk about how extinction happens in the real world , you know , or how , um , you know , how how technology works in a sociotechnical way , you know , or how it interacts with politics , I think. Um , yes. They feel very vindicated. And I think , you know , we've seen some very real world scenarios. And maybe that should be what is informing the policy response. Um , more so than , uh , than some of the predictions that have been longstanding predictions from this community.
S2: And if I could just jump in there and say , I think that was a really great summation there. And , you know , I think it's also important to point out that between hugging face and the extinction of humanity , there's probably a wide range of things that AI could do , um , in terms of nefarious actions. So if you look back at like , even recent history , like California has had proposals to have human oversight of how AI operates in critical infrastructure , like the power grid or nuclear facility or what have you , or in terms of how that operates as a bill on Newsom's desk. Now that with a lot of caveats that AI can't be used to , to fire people without human oversight. I mean , these are things that have been under consideration for , in some cases , years , but at the end are real world possibilities where , you know , the AI can clearly do something bad. The agent could clearly misinterpret how it's supposed to complete a task or , you know , kind of go off the rails , so to speak. And now , I'm not saying these proposals are panacea , but they're there are other ways that AI could do bad things , wreak havoc , cause problems , and hurt people that are maybe the policy system that is more responsive to and there are active proposals looking at that. And we don't just have to , you know , go 0 to 60 right away and talk about how do we stop it from killing all of us? That's certainly an important conversation , and I don't want that to happen. But I think there's also , um , really important , um , other harms that aren't necessarily catastrophic but are still bad. That would be good to head off.
S4: And , you know , could potentially prevent the catastrophic harms. I mean , I think we have seen the cybersecurity community , um , you know , try to impress on the world how few of the basic , um , you know , safeguards that we have known about for decades have even been implemented , um , you know , to prevent some of the the news that keeps coming out every day. I feel like , you know , I have been offline for a little while. I'm not sure what , um , OpenAI agents have hacked into , um , in the past couple hours , but , um , you know , I'm sure more information is going to come out and , um. Yeah , I think it would really behoove us to listen to those cybersecurity folks.
S1: Well , we're going to have to leave it there. I mean , excuse me , I have a number of more questions. I feel like we could go keep going for another hour , but I really appreciate you all taking the time , which is really , you know , busy week , I'm sure , for all of you. I've been speaking with Chase de Felicia Antonio. He covers AI and automation policy for Politico , along with Stephen Counsell , senior tech reporter with Business Insider and Natasha Tiku. She's also been joining us. She covers tech culture with The Washington Post. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. And we're going to include links to all your reporting on our website as well.
S5: Thank you. Thanks.
S4: Thanks.
S3: Thanks , Andrew.
S1: Coming up from AI , we turn to a new music series coming to KPBS highlighting San Diego's underground music scene. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. Stay tuned. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. For decades , college radio has been a conduit for people to connect with new styles of music. But it's also been an avenue to build community all around college campuses across the country. At San Diego State campus , radio station KCRW has been doing that since the late 60s. And now KCRW is bringing some of that energy , some of that sound , to KPBS. It's called Basement Beats , and it's a new show premiering on KPBS radio. This Sunday at 10 p.m. for a new weekly series. It's also going to be available as a podcast , and I'm joined by a couple of the folks behind it. Sammy Thomas is the general manager of KCRW and producer of Basement Beats. Sammy , welcome.
S6: Happy to be here. Thanks.
S1: Great to have you. And , uh , Kayla Parra is KCRW's director of of the Basement Beats program at the station and also a producer on the show. And she also works here at KPBS as a student news assistant. Kayla , great to see you. Welcome. Hi.
S6: Hi. Thanks for having us.
S1: Great to be here. Like to have you guys here and talk about the show. So while Basement Beats , it's going to be new for KPBS , but it's been happening at KCRW for a few years now. Sammy , I'm wondering if you can tell us more about it and how just that idea for the series got started?
S6: Yeah , so it started back around 2021 , and this student within KCRW wanted to put a spotlight on local music. So he created this series , and basically we bring in a band or an artist local to San Diego , and they play like a 20 minute set with us , and we utilize students within KCRW to do the video , do the audio. Um , like photograph the band during the set , and then it's followed by about a ten minute interview. After that , it gets brought to an editor , and they move all those clips together and make it look really cool. And it gets posted on our YouTube.
S1: And it's called Basement Beats because it's actually is it. In.
S6: In.
S1: A quarter in a basement , right? Yeah. And it centers on like a live concert , right?
S7: Yeah , yeah , it's kind of like this mini. It's similar to NPR's Tiny Desk , but it's filmed in the Daily Aztec newsroom , which is on the bottom floor of one of the buildings. So it's , you know , the environment is kind of we moved some of the tables around , we set up a band there and we kind of have this like live , intimate performance. It's just open to , you know , the KCRW members and the Basement Beats production team. But yeah , just a little set. They get to play some of their music and it's really nice. Okay.
S1: Okay. I want to get right into some of the music. Um , a lot of the bands you feature have , you know , connection to San Diego State. Definitely like a lot of bands from San Diego as well. The first episode features this band , Kimiko. Uh , here's a bit of their song hush and a warning sign.
S8: And nothing you can do in your home like an enormous. Temple in glory or a shadow in the sun.
S1: So again , that's Kimiko , the band Kimiko uh , with their track hush and a warning sign , recorded live at Basement Beats at KCRW. Um , Sami talked to me , you know , why did you want to start with this band for the for the first episode?
S6: I think we wanted to bring Kimiko on because they just had like a great presence. I think working with them also maybe influenced this decision. Um , they were so easy to work with. I love their sound. It's like a nice soft. Ease into the series and then from there , it just kind of takes you on a whirlwind of different genres.
S1: And Kayla , go ahead.
S7: Yeah , absolutely. Just like Sami said , I'd seen them live a couple times around venues in San Diego , and that's really what I liked , is that they provided the soft introduction to what the rest of the episode would be. Their music is very it blends different genres of , you know , you hear some aspects of indie , some alternative rock , and I think that kind of is the face of the rest of the show , which is , you know , mixing San Diego's local sound and getting creative. And also their band chemistry is amazing. So I thought it would be great to include.
S1: And I want to talk more about San Diego Sound , and I'm glad you brought that up. But another part of this , you know , in addition to the music , each episode also has a conversation with the musicians you're highlighting here. And you cover , you know , those cover like a range of topics , right? Some. Some pretty light , some more serious. What are you most interested in hearing from those conversations? Kayla.
S7: At least for me , I think it's something you don't. When you hear these bands live in a venue , you don't get to interact with them on a deeper , a personal level. I think the interviews really bring that in the sense that you get to hear their musical influences. Maybe what the band members grew up listening , just you hear those little stories , you hear the songwriting process. And again , it's something that you wouldn't know from just hearing them live at a venue. So I think Basement Beats really brings that connection of like , a San Diego band to maybe like listeners that heard them for the first time at a venue.
S1: And I kind of want to. I really liked hearing some of their reflections on just , you know , how they got started in music , but also just reflecting on the artistic process. And we have a clip here. This is an episode featuring Micah Preach about really what kind of drew him to want to make music. Let's listen to that now.
S9: I think it just became something I could do by myself. I could lock myself in my room and just get lost in that. And I think that's what guitar became for me , because I could , just as a kid , I could just go in my room and just , you know , play for five hours and just lose myself in my , you know , room playing just became , I guess , my activity or whatever. And I just yeah , I loved it.
S1: I don't know , I just liked that clip because it just explores this genesis of why someone even want to do this. I mean , I think another important piece of this is you're really highlighting folks maybe before their big. Right? And it's like a space for them to kind of come in and really share this , like intimate live setting. Sami , talk to me more about where these artists are and you know , kind of how you choose them for the show. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. So it starts with the local scene. My freshman year , I used to go to a lot of house shows and so getting familiar with the scene down in San Diego influenced who I was going to pick on basement beats. Um , it was just about kind of going to their Instagram , seeing what their sound was like. I wanted to make sure people who I brought on the show were spanning across multiple genres. I wanted it to be more than just like classic San Diego indie rock.
S1: Um , I'm wondering , you know , is there a moment or two that really stand out to you from from the shows? Sami I know you've been involved in Basement Beats for quite a while , but like , yeah , any moments stick out to you , whether from this season or from past , you know , shows you've done?
S6: Yeah , I remember my second session I was directing and I got to bring on a band that I really loved listening to in high school , so it was like a fangirl moment for me. Um , but I'm like trying to act all professional in front of them. And then we ran into this technical problem. They forgot their pedalboard , and so they were like , okay , you say the word , we'll run to Oceanside and grab it. It'd be like another hour. Everyone had to stay and I was like , please do. And then they did and it was great and I'm so happy they did. It was just so great having that band on the show.
S1: All right. Well , let's I want to keep the music coming. We don't get to play like , a lot of music. So when I get going , this is great. Um , another band you feature this season , Kayla , is called The Souls. Souls. They're Chicano rock band from San Diego. And here's a bit of their song or Chata. So.
S10: So. They started out the door. And the demo blows. Oh. My. Yeah , this is Amy I. Are. You still there to love? It if you. Can.
S1: Can. That's the souls with our killer. You know. Tell us more about the souls. Like what stands out to you about their sound.
S7: I think the main thing , I guess for me , growing up in a Hispanic household and bringing the souls on , they have this really nice mixture. They have English and Spanish lyrics , which is so nice to hear because you don't hear too much of that in mainstream music and bringing them on being at that session. I was a camera operator during that session , and I just remember , like the lights , you know , the lights were out. It was just a dim room and we had strobe lights going , and it was just those lights on them. And it was such an intimate , rich experience and hearing that sound. I think it was really nice to introduce to Basement Beats , and they've gone on to play bigger shows , but it's nice that they always have , you know , their bass and beats performance on YouTube that they can look back on , and it was really nice.
S1: Well that's a that's a great description. I want to talk a little bit about your own relationship to music and kind of how you got into this. I mean , Sami , you've been involved in KCRW really from the get go. You're you're senior now and you've been at it like since freshman year. What originally drew you to want to connect with college radio? And I should mention you do for those that KCRW listeners , you do have a show active right now called Why Is No one Dancing?
S11: Yeah , I love that title. Thanks.
S6: Thanks. Um , no , but I came to college looking for a community , and my sister joined her college radio station , and she was like , Sam , you got to get into this. And so I looked I went to the first meeting , and I was looking for opportunities to not only find a community , but expand my film portfolio because I'm also a film production major. And so that's how I found Basement Beats. I ran video for them , I did photo for them , and then I just fell in love with the community and the people that bring KCR together. And so yeah , now I have a radio show. Um , and now I get to manage the whole station and it's just great giving that gift to new freshmen.
S1: How have you seen Sammy? You know , over the course of being a student here at San Diego State , how have you seen San Diego's music scene and community , as you mentioned? Have you seen it evolve over the last few years?
S6: I think there's just a sense of togetherness now that I didn't feel my freshman year , and I think it was also me like getting used to San Diego and getting used to the scene down here , getting to know people , finding myself , um , but like , people want to go out. People are yearning for community. People want to put their phone down and just dance.
S1: Um , Kayla. Yeah , same question to you. I mean , is that something this this community piece? Have you seen a growing scene here?
S7: Yeah , absolutely. I think what's unique to San Diego State University is that you have these bands that , you know , start out their their freshman year , they start out playing , you hear their song evolve , but you also see different bands constantly entering the scene. So it's kind of an ever changing movement. That is , and we're always trying to capture that on basement beats. But yeah , I think it's it's you hear so many genres , I've heard so many unique blends , and I think it's so special to have it featured on Basement Beats , because , you know , you have this one college band that started out their freshman year , and even beyond graduation , they're still performing shows around San Diego and even around the country. So I think that's the coolest thing ever. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Um , Sammy , I mean , what does it mean to actually , you know , be taking Basement Beats from KCRW and also expanding it to the KPBS audience?
S6: It's awesome. I can't believe we haven't collaborated sooner , but I'm just so happy we can promote these artists to a wider audience. The mission of Basement Beats has always been to highlight this local talent , and any way we can do that is a win for us.
S1: Um , you know , as we kind of look to wrap up , we have a couple minutes left , but I want to talk a couple more things. And Kayla , one thing , you know , I'm just curious about , we keep talking. And the focus of the show is San Diego's , you know , music scene and kind of talking about what that is today. So now , you know , after getting a chance to work with these different artists , work on these , you know , different concerts , these different shows. How would you describe San Diego's music scene today?
S7: San Diego's music scene? It's it's hard to put it into one box or like a label , but I think there's always going to be , you know , elements of garage rock or even just indie. Um , but it's very the way that I'm thinking about it is very Frankenstein in a sense , that you hear a band that , oh , maybe pulled inspiration from this band , and then their next song sounds completely different , so it's hard to put into a box. But if you if you go around saying if you visit like these local venues like Humble Heart or Che Cafe and you just listen at one of the shows , you're going to hear something completely different. And I think that that's what makes up San Diego's music scene. It's all those little pockets that you hear , those little bands , those artists. So I think that's really sweet.
S1: You mentioned a couple of smaller venues in San Diego scene. Sammy , how do you see San Diego's music scene? I mean , what have you learned by working on the series?
S6: I think that was a great description. Um , what's been so cool is seeing like what? Like expanding what genre can be. Um , seeing these bands like genre bend , like , I remember making my spreadsheet. Um , I had like a list of genres. And for some of the bands , like , I couldn't even pin it down. Like , I'm just like , uh , it's a little this , little that , and sometimes this. Um , but no , it's cool. It's it's expanding constantly and it's changing constantly. And I think that's really motivating and really exciting to be a part of , like community like that.
S1: Well , it's great to kind of get some college radio vibes and KPBS and listeners can listen to that starting Sunday night , um , to Basement Beats. And before we go , we're going to play one more track. This is some more music from The Souls with their track misfits live from KCRW. I've been speaking with Sammy Thomas , general manager of KCRW and producer of Basement Beats , along with Kayla Parra. She is director of the Basement Beats program at KCRW and also a producer on the series , and it premieres this Sunday. Kayla. Sami , thanks so much and congratulations on the new series.
S6: Thank you so much for having us.
S7: Thanks , Andrew.
S1: And that'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thanks so much for listening. And to all of my guests today. If you have any thoughts on today's show , you can always email us at roundtable at PBS.org. You can leave us a message as well at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producer is Brandon Truffaut. The show was produced by Ashley Rush. Brooke Rooth is roundtable senior producer. I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again for listening. Have a great weekend.
S12: Thank you. I got a lot. I got a lot to offer.
