S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Pushback from San Diego leaders grows louder in response to plans for a data center in San Diego.
S2: Do we want a mega data center in San Diego? Oh.
S1: We hear more about the proposed data center on federal land in Old Town , the backlash to it , and the reporting that broke the story. Then an investigation finds San Diego's Montgomery Gibs airport to be the worst in the nation when it comes to lead pollution. And as budgets tighten with the opening of a new day , center means for people experiencing homelessness in San Diego. That's all coming up on the KPBS roundtable. With the rise of AI driven technology also comes with a surging demand to build new data centers. That push has also led to growing debates over where they should be built , and how they impact people living near them. Data centers also seem to be quite unpopular. A recent poll found nearly two thirds of people would strongly oppose one being built in their community. Well , new reporting from Voice of San Diego has revealed how one developer has been exploring plans to build a large scale data center here in San Diego , and the pushback has already started. Here's San Diego City Council member Sean Rivera at a press conference yesterday.
S2: Do we want more pollution? No. Do we want higher utility bills? Do we want to help freeloading billionaires? And do we want a mega data center in San Diego? Yes.
S1: And the mayor is taking action as well. Yesterday , he announced an executive order to stop data center development in the city. Here to talk more about what's going on is McKenzie Elmer , who first reported the story. She covers the environment and energy for Voice of San Diego. McKenzie. Welcome back. Hey.
S3: Hey. Yeah , thanks for having me.
S1: Thanks for being here. So , I mean , tell us how the story got started. I think you got hold of some emails that go back about a year , but. Yeah. How did this first get on your radar? Yeah.
S3: Yeah. I mean , it starts sort of the way a lot of good stories start , which is I got a a good tip and , you know , look for some public records and revealed that a developer , a well known developer in town , Manchester Financial Group , had been asking the local power buyers what it would cost to build a data center. A 400 megawatt data center is what they were asking about. So that kind of just kicked off the whole thing. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So let's kind of dig into this. But first , you know , just talking about the site of where this , you know , would take place if it were to happen again. They're just exploring these plans , right? Um , it's federally owned land. It's the Navarre site , I think. I don't know.
S3: Naval information warfare systems command.
S1: I think , you know , I drive by it multiple times a week , but I have.
S3: A weird roof on those. Like , kind of like. Yeah , triangular roofs on the side of the.
S1: Highway , just off the five. Kind of in between Old Town and Midway there. Yeah. But talk about the site and kind of what it's currently being used for and some of the visions of what we know where , you know.
S3: I mean , I don't really know what's going on inside there. I really would like to know. I can ask the Navy like what? You know , but it's used for , I guess , like digital or cybersecurity , like protecting the nation from , you know , cyber war , I guess , which sounds really interesting and exciting , but it's an old , old building. It's been there since like the 40s , I guess. Used to build , you know , bombers in there. Um , so this Navarre site , it's called Navarre. So everybody's been interested in what's going to be built there. The Navy needs a new building. And so this developer , the deal is that they would find the financing to build a navy , a new building , and then they would get to build whatever kind of they wanted on the rest of this big 70 acre site. And it is. It's basically like near downtown. It's in the midway district. So , um , obviously there hasn't been like a lot of news about it for the past couple of years. I think people have been waiting to hear what the final plans were. And this kind of kicked off like a whole new inquiry into like , what are the developers thinking? Because clearly they were probing whether a data center might be feasible in pencil out there. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And it's actually kind of like two sites sort of next to each other. Right. And I think your reporting kind of goes into and it's a total of what , like 70 acres , 70 acres. Yeah. So the vision there is like some of it will be used by the Navy ultimately and this redevelopment. But then the Manchester Financial Group can kind of and I think the UDT even published a story kind of talking about all the different things they've been exploring , even like a football field. Was there. At what point?
S3: Well , yeah , I mean , when I called up the developer who had , you know , I got a hold this email where he told San Diego Community Power , which is the local government run. They buy the power for the various cities that are a part of it. Um , they he emailed them and was like , I'm flying to Qatar , you know , to. To Doha. Can you let me know , like what it would cost price wise just to , to do 400 megawatt data center , which is kind of an enormous question to just sort of fire off.
S1: I can you put that into perspective? Yeah. This 400 megawatt data center. Like , how big is that?
S3: Um , I think it would be probably the largest ever built in California. The one in Imperial County that has also caused controversy. Would be 330MW , I believe. So this means like continuously , because data centers are essentially buildings full of large computer servers. This would be like running , um , enough power for 300,000 additional homes , probably 24 over seven or depending on how it's built. Like , there are a lot of different efficiencies that can be factored into data centers. I know there's a lot of hype and fear around , you know , water guzzling ones and ones that bring in like jet fuel power generators , which is like what Elon Musk did over in Tennessee. So the way that data centers have kind of gone down in the country lately , these sort of they're called hyperscalers. These that I the definition of that is kind of fluid. But there's some congressional reports that are trying to define it. I think it's more than like 100MW. Um , yeah. Those are the ones that are people are really afraid of , I think because data centers have been around for a really long time , for decades. There's already quite a few in San Diego , so.
S1: And they sort of kicked up a notch with just this AI kind. Of.
S3: Of. Well , yeah. And , you know , people , big name people like Elon Musk kind of coming into towns and building kind of whatever the hell he wants without actually doing and , you know , following local permitting , um , getting , you know , buy in from the community building at wherever sort of he wants and just build a lot of these sort of bad player hyperscalers bring in fossil fuel energy to run it. So like , they bring in these huge natural gas powered , um , generators or jet fuel powered ones. It creates noise , it creates air pollution. It creates , you know , they maybe guzzle water to cool off the servers. We. But as I've talked with more experts , there are also data center developers who are trying to be better and and use different types of systems.
S1: And you spoke with one local expert who called this , you know , data center development right now is just being a gold rush , right? I mean , there's just , like such a need for them. Um , I want to talk about , you know , you mentioned some of the concerns we're hearing and we've heard from city leaders and the mayor , other city leaders , like we heard from Shani Rivera earlier. You know , what do we know about , like , how much energy a data center like this would use?
S3: Well , like I said before , um , a 400 megawatt data center approximately would use as much power as , like , 300,000 homes. That's a way you can think about it. So it's like kind of plopping in a new city's worth demand into the center of San Diego. And that raises a whole bunch of questions like , do we even have a power grid that can support that. Right? And then we probably don't. In that area. So we'd have to do a ton of upgrades. And so like what would that cost. What would I be responsible for that on my energy bill , which is already one of the highest. We have some of the highest energy prices in the nation , right. And we do know from the emails that the developer had talked to SDG and our local monopoly grid power builder here , and asked for an engineering study to look at the like what that load would look like. But of course , I they're not some they're a private company. You can't request public records for them. So I don't know to what extent that's been done or what they said about that. But I will say on top of all of this , very recently , the state legislature in California passed a bunch of new laws regulating data centers and SDG , and response to my inquiry about this load demand was that this new law is in place where the the utility , the state Utility Commission , is going to require data center developers to pay for those costs , but that won't happen for a couple of years. Like they have to do all the bureaucracy to put that into place. And so yeah , but there's still a lot of fear , right. And unknowns. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And another one , another big one I think you mentioned and we're hearing is about pollution. So like what do we know about how green actually the energy would be. You know for a project like this right now.
S3: Well hope I mean because they're talking to standing Committee power , which again is a publicly run power buying agency , it's kind of hard to describe them in a very quick way , but their whole goal is the cities that are that form this agency all have commitments to do what , run on 100% renewable energy by like 2035. So they as an entity actually use the money that they get and they go out and they get people to build like clean energy projects to add , you know , more clean energy load. They kind of like make that market bigger. So you would assume , like if if the data center came here , they would automatically be enrolled onto the their system. And so whatever that demand is that $300,000 or 300,000 homes worth of energy , then they would the community power would have to go out and procure all of that , go and get it , go and find it and make it potentially. So maybe they'd run on 100% renewable energy. But we know from the documents that I got when asked , you know , where you guys need backup power on site. They were kind of like probably , you know , because it is so large. Um , it's such a well , and again , we're talking about like it's going to happen , but and this is I must say , you know , this is just one option. They said that they were exploring , I think , to make this project pencil because just the way the market is right now and data centers are just like a huge money maker , clearly.
S1: And they've also kind of unveiled housing and some other like.
S3: Yeah , we didn't even talk about the previous plans.
S1: But um , but yeah , I want to talk a little bit. So yesterday , San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria announced this , you know , moratorium for data data center development in the city. I'm just wondering what you can tell us. Like what that means for for this potential. This project which actually sits on federal land. Right. I mean , do probably nothing.
S3: I mean , it's symbolic that the city is putting a moratorium in place that they're pursuing a city ordinance that would put requirements on future data developers or , sorry , data center developers , but this is on federal lands , so the city's authority over that is quite minimal. I mean , they can make it maybe miserable for the developer by , you know , when there's like when they're if , if and when they start talking and arguing about services they have to provide to that site , like fire police. You know , they have to hook up water and sewer from the city. So that's maybe an area where they do have some kind of leverage , but it's federal land. Okay.
S1: Okay. Interesting. So and then , you know , another executive order came from President Trump actually on the development of data centers and that , you know , was meant to make it easier to develop them on federal land. Like , does that help in that sort of protect it from city?
S3: This is something I hope I'm going to write about in my newsletter. I have a bi weekly newsletter comes out on Mondays. Uh , the. So Trump passed an executive order that would streamline data centers on federal land. In fact , there are data center developers looking at different military bases to build , to build. So he's making it easier for data centers to be on federal land. It wouldn't necessarily give locals more power and these and these types of contracts. So that really is a big question is like with Donald Trump and Power , who's definitely pro data center development , who's trying to make it easier for data centers to pass through , you know , all the National Environmental Protection Act , different laws. He's trying to streamline that. That's a question. Like , he could just step in and say data center on Navarre site. That's what we want. And you know , he didn't really care about blowing us , blowing San Diego off the face of the earth in the context of the war in Iran.
S1: So I don't know , another segment there. But yeah. Um , so , you know , Mackenzie , you mentioned you touched on like some of the other plans. This is one of the proposals being made on this site , but housing is also a part of it. What do we know about the state of development here?
S3: So around 2024 , when I think the UBT got a hold of some records that said , you know what's going to be built there? And what the Manchester I've learned from council member had been pitching was , uh , you know , thousands of homes potentially for military or veterans apartments , you know , maybe hotel or retail. It was always considered the sort of mixed use development , but mixed use development could literally be anything , you know. Um , so when the data center thing dropped and people were , you know , the size of the data center is quite large , I don't know what footprint that would take up on the site. You know , I had questions about that. And then they finally Manchester finally confirmed. Like we are going to build housing. It's going to be part of the site. And they said , you know , if we're going to build a data centre , it would be on this sort of smaller portion , which is on one side of the street , and that the we would we would continue to do some kind of housing project. But again , the details of that are still up in the air.
S1: So so yeah , just a lot of moving parts here happening. And I think the mayor says this data centre moratorium is going before the council this Monday. I mean , you know , you mentioned one story that you're thinking about , but what questions are top of mind for you right now?
S3: Oh , well , who would the customer would be? Um , Manchester said , you know , we don't know who the customer would be. And that means like a meta or a Google or a Facebook or Meta is Facebook. But that was another thing that the expert I talked to in my first story , who was describing this as a gold rush , said , he's like , you know. the real serious projects are the ones that like meta , and those big internet companies or AI companies are actually , um , purchasing land or. But there's a lot of prospectors out there , right , who are like getting in different like interconnection or grid queues , trying to buy land , trying to buy water rights and make sites that are just package deal ready for a meta to swoop in or for a , you know , XAI to swoop in and , and plant their project. Because the demand for this computing power is just so great with AI that people see this as the moneymaker. Right? Like , they'll pay lots of lots of , you know , millions of dollars for the space to do this.
S1: So and I think that's similar to kind of the Imperial County project you mentioned. Right , as well. Yeah. To. Yeah. So , well , just , you know , I have a lot more questions , but I think that'll , um , we'll leave it there for now. I've been speaking with McKenzie Elmer. She covers energy in the environment for Voice of San Diego. McKenzie , thanks so much for. Yeah , talking more about all all this reporting and all you unearth yours. Thanks. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. Thank you.
S1: And we'll , of course , include links to Mackenzie's stories in our show notes today as well , and website KPBS. Up next , we hear about new reporting , which found a concerning amount of pollution coming from one local airport. This is KPBS roundtable. Stay tuned. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. For more than a decade , residents near the Montgomery Gibbs airport have been asking officials to do something about the pollution coming from its planes. A new investigation finds it produces the highest amount of lead pollution for a general aviation airport in the country. But the process to transition away from leaded fuels has seen repeated delays and impacted residents. There are now , you know , they're calling for action. Joining me to talk through the story is Philip Salata. He's environment and energy reporter for a news source. Hey , Philip. Welcome back.
S4: Great to be here , Andrew.
S1: Great to have you here. So um , your most recent story here is focusing on pollution coming from Montgomery Gibbs Airport. I think of it still from its former name , Montgomery Field. I think a lot of people still it's located , you know , in these neighborhoods near Claremont Mesa , Kearny Mesa. How would you describe the airport to those who may not be familiar with it?
S4: So it is a general aviation airport , and that means that most of the planes that are flying out of there are , you know , small aircraft that have piston engines. So that's to differentiate between San Diego and International , where we have commercial jetliners that use jet fuel. Right. These piston aircraft , they use leaded fuel. And around we have several neighborhoods quite diverse. And more than 30 schools trickled throughout on all sides of the perimeter of the airport , some very near and all of which are underneath the flight path of airplanes that circle that airport daily.
S1: And I want to talk about more of those communities. I think you do such a good job in your reporting. Kind of like , you know , really centering around those communities. But I want to take , you know , first go back , you know , a couple years back now to a press conference when city leaders announced a change , you know , a new type of fuel basically being available for planes there. Here's San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria back in November of 2024.
S5: Here in San Diego. We're not content with just following federal law. We want to exceed it. We want to be ahead of the curve , especially when it comes to protecting public health and safety. And that's why I'm thrilled that we're able to work with Crown Air to bring the first unleaded aviation fuel here to Montgomery Gibbs. Okay.
S1: Okay. So just using that , you know , tell us more about that particular moment and why it's it's so important for the story you're telling here. Right.
S4: Right. Well , there was a lot of Jubilee in that moment. So for several years you had residents and pediatricians fighting together to push for the introduction of this , what is called a transition. Uh , fuel? It's an unleaded fuel. UL 94 and the city finally did accept their , you know , their protests and bought a tank and started offering this unleaded fuel that could you that more or less 70% of aircraft at that air airport can use. Uh , but two years later , there's been 168 gallons of that fuel sold in comparison to just under 1.5 million gallons of leaded fuel.
S1: So it just it really didn't change. Change the calculus there. I want to talk more about that. But first , can we talk more about lead exposure and just what we know about , you know , even Mayor Gloria mentioned public , you know , public health there. But what are the health harms that come from those? Right.
S4: Right. And that's important to know. I mean , I will say , you know , we have banned we banned leaded fuels from automobiles in the 70s. We've long known about the impacts of lead. It's known to cause.
S1: Paint , right? Right.
S4: Right. In paint as well. Exactly , exactly. And so , in fact , we have lead prevention programs in cities to identify these kinds of sources , but yet lead it. It impacts the central nervous system and the brain. It could lead to IQ loss , to decreased attention spans , to speech loss , hearing loss , slowed growth. And it's especially impactful on children. And there's actually no amount of lead that is safe. And then I think it's also important to say over the years , um , as it's been a couple of maybe 15 years or so , that they've been trying to phase out leaded aviation fuel , but then , you know , they were not able to develop a fuel that can work for all piston aircraft , though now we do have that fuel. It is actually certified , but it's still going under a kind of , um , Standardisation process they call it. So it still can't be used completely. But UL 94 is viable for most planes. And then I'm going to speak a little bit about an important point here. So a majority of the traffic , a big part of the traffic at Montgomery Gibbs is by flight schools , flight schools. They generally teach people by flying in these , what they call touch and go patterns. That's a plane that flies. It takes off flies in a kind of circle or back around and lands and then takes off again without stopping. And they are circling around these neighborhoods for , you know , incessantly throughout the day and over these schools. Right. And so this is , this is how also this is part of why this investigation focused in on what's going on in terms of the impact on children in the area and , and what's going on in terms of testing or the lack thereof on , on children in the area.
S1: Oh , interesting. Yeah. So it's these kind of constant takeoffs. Landings. This , this like , um , what did you call it? Like these loops , touch and go loop. Yeah. Right. Loops um , that are particularly , you know , adding to the pollution problems there. Exactly.
S4: Exactly. And most of the planes that flight school use flight schools use could be using this UL 94. And there are no stipulations from the city at the moment to enforce that. It's just , you know , out in the open , it's available , but it's by election whether they use it or not. Interesting.
S1: Interesting. Um , you know , you know , talking about just the loops we're talking about , I should say , in your story , just looking at it , um , you can find it in a news source and we're going to link to that on our website. But you also include an interactive flight plan and a map there. And I want to talk a little bit about that. People can kind of navigate it. And what really jumped out to me is you really get a sense of how residential there. I mean , you see the homes , you know what I mean? There's as you mentioned , there's several schools surrounding the airport. Talk more about. Yeah , just the surrounding area. And I think you mentioned lack of testing there , like what's happening there. Right.
S4: Right. Yeah. So we did develop with my colleague Giovanni Mujeres , who's we've been working closely together to visualize these , these kind of data sets. What we did was took well , we made two maps. I think both of them are very important. One , a map shows 59 airplanes over just around four hours that piston airplanes and their paths around that area. And you'll see it. It's basically it's painted the map , the color orange all around flying over these schools. And that's just four hours in one day , right. And and the other visualization that we worked on together , the Geo took the , the helm on , was to basically show you this interaction where you literally are flying the path of one airplane and seeing your path underneath you. The schools appear , the parks open , parking lots of stores where people are frequenting every day. So the point was to emphasize this is a highly , highly inhabited area where people are out in the open and consistently , and they're living underneath these flight paths that are constant , right. I think it's also important to say that , I mean , other than the lead , also , residents have been complaining a lot about noise. And the noise complaints have also been quite intense over these last couple of months. And I think these things go hand in hand. Of course , noise you can hear , but lad , you can't see. And about testing. So this is a thing very important. I think there's a chance here for some work. So despite Montgomery Gibbs being the highest polluter in the nation , there are no targeted testings of children for lead exposure by the county or the city. That means , on the other hand , you know , the state obligates local authorities to do that kind of testing when there is acute exposure. Right. And so we do have the knowledge that there is a problem. And yet we don't have that testing.
S1: Um , you know , there are other airports of the size in cities and , you know , large municipal areas , um , in California , how are other communities , uh , similar sized airports , how are they managing the problem of lead pollution?
S4: Yeah , it's a.
S1: Very because these planes got to fly somewhere sometimes. Rather they just fly back , but.
S4: Right , right. And I mean , I think this is the the big question is do they. What kind and with what fuel. Right. So I mean there's been pressure from Carb , for example , the state regulators to the federal regulators , regulators , the Federal Aviation Administration to actually push forward and and expedite the approval. The final approval of this fuel. I mean , they have it it's been tested. It's certified. Why can't we get it going right now? The federal deadline is 2030. But even they are saying that it might slip. Um , so then it has kind of turned to some local municipalities to say , well , if you're not going to do this , we're going to take action , right? So Santa Clara County is an important one. Santa Clara actually banned the sale of leaded fuels from their two airports. Of course , that kind of the FAA started pushing back at that. And this is important to the FAA , has been actually pushing back on local measures to push things forward. They said , you know , well , we give you we give you money , right. And in grant money and you're obligated to fulfill your your promises to us , one of which is selling this fuel. But Santa Clara is now reaching a deal with the FAA to not directly sell that fuel. And there's also Torrance , for example , the city of Torrance , where they actually banned the touch and go traffic specifically. So they're saying we have residents living under this flight path. You can't do this incessant circling , because that's also I think an important point is when these planes do touch and goes , that's about 50% of their exhaust is burnt during those moments. So it's it's a high intensity kind of flight over a low elevation , right.
S1: Um , so , you know , the city , as we heard at the beginning , you know , had hopes that this new unleaded fuel would be more utilized. I think , you know , in those he said , mission accomplished. Or , you know , the mayor seemed , you know , pretty positive about the future of that. Why aren't more people using this fuel there?
S4: So I spoke with Jorge Rubio , who directs the airport , and he brings up important points , one of which is that the fuel is more expensive. Uh , another is that it's actually , set up on a stationary tank. So unlike leaded fuel that drives out to the plains , here the plains have to drive out to the unleaded fuel to refuel. And then he's also pointed out that there's just , you know , there's a lot of taboo and lack of education around the , the , the use of unleaded fuels. Um , some pilots say that , you know , it's not safe because actually lead is added to the fuel to make the planes more , um , to make them more efficient and for the , the engines to burn more stably. Let's say , uh , but unleaded fuel is also shown , on the other hand , to increase the longevity of planes. And if your plane can be certified , um , which also costs a little bit of money , that's another hurdle. Um , it can actually increase your plane's life. So there are hurdles. And I think that the main one , though , is that right now we're relying mostly on just making the fuel available and maybe some , you know , information , but there's not necessarily enough either incentives. And I would argue also there's well there isn't enforcement. Right. So many residents are saying , well , listen , if your plane is able to fly on unleaded fuel , the city should demand that it does. Mhm.
S1: Um , you know , you talk about the flight schools there. Um but Montgomery Gibbs airport , it's , it's not only busy right now as reporting tells us , but it's also looking to expand. Right. So how does that fit into this whole discussion around concerns over lead pollution there?
S4: I mean , I think this is a great question for our city leaders , and this is something that I'm going to be writing about in the days to come. I've reached out to all of our elected officials to understand how they square that. Um , even in the the plan for expansion of the airport , we have text that the flight schools will be expanding regularly over the next years. So that discrepancy , I think is a big question mark and is a big reason why a lot of residents are just completely alarmed because they see a program around unleaded fuel that has virtually languished , and at the same time , they see the airport expanding. They don't see testing. And so , I mean , a lot of residents I talk to feel quite abandoned and not listened to in regards to this problem.
S1: I mean , one , you know , aspect of your reporting that I always enjoy is , you know , you don't tend to just like write up a story and move on to your next one. You really spend the time kind of connecting with with the communities that you're writing about. And I'm just curious , the story's been out for , what , almost a week now. What's been the response so far?
S4: So yeah , thank you for talking about that , Andrew. It's what I did is I printed out some small sheets with like flyers with a QR code for the article. And I went and I'm going , I've already gone a little bit and I'm going to continue out throughout this week to go door to door throughout the neighborhood , and also specifically to the 30 and plus schools in the area. And , you know , the many folks that I spoke with had no idea this was a problem. And whereas they very much know that lead exposure to children is a huge problem. So , you know , I it really behooves us , I feel or I feel this is important for my reporting , is that when I've been trying to do kind of community focused reporting that tells the stories that people are experiencing and kind of build up , build up the pyramid toward leaders and officials and authorities to to connect people's concerns with problems and appointed way. And in that sense , I think it also behooves me to spend time spreading the word about what I've been able to research during this time connecting , communicating , creating relationships with people so that there's an open channel and an open dialogue and that also somehow to put the words , uh , to the physicality of , of us living in this physical space together and experiencing these things and making sure that the information doesn't just fall through the cracks of hoping that people hear about it.
S1: That's really eye opening reporting. And I should also say another reporting. You did. Congratulations. You , you and your team at News Source won a national Edward R Murrow Award. So congratulations. That was on your reporting on the Tijuana River pollution crisis. There's another pollution problem in our region.
S4: Thank you. Thank you so much for your words.
S1: Philip Salata is the environment and energy reporter with eNews source. Thanks again , Philip , and we'll have links to your reporting on our website.
S4: Thanks , thanks. Hope to see you again.
S1: Coming up , Father Joe's Villages has opened a new day center. What it means for those experiencing homelessness in San Diego. Round tables. Back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Nearly 10,000 people in San Diego County are experiencing homelessness , according to the most recent point in time count. Many of them rely on county services , things like emergency shelters , food pantries , but also day centers where people can sit down , relax in a safe environment. Up until last month , the Neal Good Day Center offered those services in downtown San Diego , but it was forced to close after city budget cuts. Now , Fathers Joe's Villages has opened a new day center. And joining me to talk about it and the overall picture of homelessness in San Diego is Amy Burris. She's the KPBS Gloria Penafiel , fellow and audio producer here at KPBS as well. Emmy , welcome to roundtable.
S6: Thanks for having me.
S1: Great to have you. So , you know , your story begins with the Neal. Good day. Center. It closed last month , and I'm wondering if you can just tell us first what exactly a day center is and what kind of services they provide.
S6: Yeah , definitely. So a day center is unique in the sense that a lot of times during the day , people who are experiencing homelessness don't necessarily have a place where they can go and safely rest. So a day center offers them respite. It's somewhere they where they can actually just , you know , sit down. I think a lot of times we just go home after a long day , we pop on the couch like not everyone has that option. So that's the main role that the day center plays in someone's life. It's also a place where people can connect with services. They can take a shower , they can get their mail too. Right.
S1: Right. Okay. So but yeah , obviously the challenges of getting shelter beds for a night is a different. But this is like through those daytime hours. Um , so tell me , you know , tell us more about why did the city cut funding for the center?
S6: Yeah , basically , the city decided in their most recent budget cycle to cut funding for the meal. Good day center. And that was basically the city told me they wanted to focus more on getting people permanently housed because day centers are kind of , you know , an interim solution. It's not getting someone a permanent solution , the city said. That's their focus. So they decided to stop their funding for Nail Good. And basically , funding for Nail Good came partially from the city , and Father Joe's operated it , and it was a couple blocks away from where Father Joe's main campus was. So when the city pulled funding , Father Joe's decided , okay , we're just going to have our main campus. We're going to make room for a day center right here. So that way people can go to the day center , and then they can go right across the street and use all the other services that Father Joe's already had.
S1: So you visited the New Day Center. You know , what's it like? Can you Yeah. Just draw a picture for us.
S6: Yeah , totally. So you walk in. Now you enter on commercial. They've converted part of an old cafeteria. Not an old cafeteria , but one of their family cafeterias. They remodeled a third of it to have the spot for people to just sit down , actually relax. During the day , you can charge them , charge your phone. And then on the other side , there's things like showers , a barber shop , mail services. There's also things like soap , deodorant , toothbrushes , toothpaste , all readily available for people to access. And so that's all the main area on the inside. And but first , when you're entering , you're greeted by someone with housing navigation services. There's a little window you can talk to them at. And there's just a lot of people there who are ready to help connect you to services.
S1: You spoke with several people just to kind of hear more about what these spaces mean. Um , one of them was Frank. Tell us about him. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. So , Frank , I'm really , really glad that I had the opportunity to chat with him. So he was previously unhoused in San Diego and he actually personally would utilize the Neal Good Day Center. He really stressed the importance of having a day center not only to access these resources , but also as a community hub. You know , that's where he'd see his friends. And he also talked about why sleeping during the day is sometimes the only option for someone who's experiencing homelessness. And I think we actually have some sound from him on that.
S7: So a lot of people , if they sleep , they sleep with one eye open. It's a very shallow sleep. Um , but really , most people just kind of walk around or just sleep for a little bit. So during the day they're really tired. And since they can't sleep in parks , they can't sleep in the libraries , they can't sleep , you know? There's a million places where they can't stop.
S1: So again , that was Frank Kosaku Siragusa. Yeah. Um , you know , it is interesting to hear him. Yeah , I , I totally get it. You know , just having that space during the daytime. It did make me think , you know. Reflect on the countywide , citywide camping bans we've we've become accustomed to over the last few years. How have those and other enforcement efforts sort of impacted the daily lives for unhoused people? Yeah.
S6: Yeah. I mean , it's a huge thing. You know , when you're walking around , a lot of times people kind of see someone who is experiencing homelessness and they think of them as a problem and not a human being. I think that's how a lot of times the police will view them not as this is an actual human being , but this is an eyesore and a problem. And so people who are experiencing homelessness a lot of time , they try and lay down on the bench , they try and fall asleep somewhere and the police wake them up , ask them to move somewhere else , then no camping bans. A lot of times people are just getting moved around. Sometimes they're getting pushed more towards downtown because that's where all of these services are really centered right now , but sometimes it's really like they're just being moved around , you know , when you're having to carry everything in your life with you everywhere you go. That just must be so difficult to try and keep track of everything while you're constantly moving around and being asked to move.
S1: I'm wondering , you know , just kind of talking about the camping bans. If we can talk a little bit about just where we are with homelessness right now. Um , yeah. Can you give us a sense of just the state of things , you know , in most recent data or just like trends you're noticing?
S6: Yeah , definitely. So we have the point in time count data , which is collected on a single night in January. And that basically showed that there's an increase in sheltered homelessness. So people utilizing shelters but there's a decrease in unsheltered homelessness. Um , but again , that's collected on a single night. We have some more comprehensive data that came out , I think in like July from the regional Task Force on Homelessness , because it looked at the past few fiscal years and what they really noticed is that senior homelessness is on the rise. So a lot of times people who are experiencing homelessness in San Diego are from San Diego and they don't want to leave. This is all they know. And a lot of times seniors just end up getting priced out. You know , this is one of the most expensive places in the country , and sometimes you're tired after your job and you just can't afford to live here anymore. But this is all you've known your whole life. Where do you go? So after that , they've really been trying to boost the services around seniors and to support them getting housing and not ending up homelessness homeless in the first place.
S1: You know , you mentioned , you know , seeing a greater share of homeless seniors experiencing homelessness. But on the flip side , you know , on this cost of living piece , you also recently reported on a rise in student homelessness in California and San Diego in San Diego as well. What stands out to you about that , particularly here in our region?
S6: Yeah , definitely. I think a lot of times student homelessness is harder to identify because a kid could be living in their car , or they could be couchsurfing with friends or family friends. And you don't really think of that as experiencing homelessness , but it really is. And that's oftentimes what student homelessness specifically looks like. I had the opportunity to talk to someone who did experience homelessness as a child in San Diego , and that was her situation. Sometimes they'd be able to stay with friends , but a lot of times they were in their car and having to balance going to school while your basic needs aren't being met. It just sounds , you know , impossible. And so San Diego actually has a really high number of students experiencing homelessness , but not the highest percentage , which I think is interesting because , you know , we're a big city in California , so we have a larger amount , but it's not necessarily one of the highest percentages. But again , that also could be because sometimes identifying who is homeless and who isn't. Can be tricky.
S1: Can be pretty like pretty big challenge. Um , you know , I mean , you've been covering homelessness here in San Diego in your time as a , as a panel fellow. And I'm just wondering if you could reflect a little bit about what you've learned or what you think you've you've , I don't know , learned about the state of homelessness here in San Diego.
S6: Yeah , I think that's a good question. I think a big thing that I've learned is , honestly , what comes to mind is something that Frank said to me when I talked to him last week , is that the world just isn't friendly to unhoused people. And that's really stood out to me in my time. Reporting on homelessness is that there's so much stigma surrounding people who are experiencing homelessness. You know , people write off those who are homeless because they're like , oh , they must have done something when it's in reality , we just live in one of the most expensive places in the country , and these are human beings , these are people and they're trying their best. And I think really highlighting those individual stories and allowing people to just share their stories with us is kind of been my main takeaway. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And one of those that shared some stories with you was was Frank , as we heard from earlier. And here's just like another bit of what he told you on that.
S7: I think it says asking for things most people take for granted. Most people take for granted that they can , just that. If they want to sit down and relax , they can sit down and relax. If they've had a long day , they can just sit on their couch and decompress. Unhoused people don't have that.
S1: Again , really bringing it back to to this day center and sort of what that adds. You know , just things that a lot of us don't , don't think about , right.
S6: Um , especially like during extreme weather events or something like that.
S1: Just going there. I mean , we're having it right now. I mean , you know what I mean? There's rain right now. Um , and of course , by now , I'm sure we've all heard , read plenty of stories about El Nino. And , you know , it seems pretty probable we're going to have some extreme weather in our region over the next few months. Talk about what's happening to prepare for extreme weather and its impact on on , you know , unhoused people.
S6: Yeah , definitely. I think preparing for inclement weather is a huge thing amongst homeless service providers. Um , a lot of times people I've talked to that are outreach workers. So the people that are going into the riverbeds and things like that , they're trying to refer people like , hey , you should find or you can find these inclement weather shelters. One of them will actually be the day center. So at the day center , like I mentioned , they turned part of a cafeteria into the day center. But now they're going to open up that full cafeteria. During extreme weather and extreme rain , they fold up the tables so people can come in and lie down and have an escape from the rain. I think that's really important. That's also , you know , something this summer too , that I think was huge was just the extreme heat. So you really have both ends of it because people who are experiencing homelessness are much higher , at a much higher risk of heat related illnesses. So you have that on one side and on the other side you have during extreme rain , extreme cold. You know , we can go home. We can go sell on our couch. We can relax. But people are experiencing experiencing homelessness. They don't have that luxury. So having these inclement weather shelters open up , I believe you can find them on the county website is really important.
S1: Oh , great. Yeah. And we'll we'll include a link on our website too. And our show notes. I've been speaking with Amy Burris. She's KPBS partner , fellow and audio producer. Amy , thanks so much for being here.
S6: Thanks for having me.
S1: And that'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thanks so much for listening. Roundtables , technical producers today or Ben Redlich and Brandon Truffaut. The show was produced by Ashley Rush. Caleb Jimeno is the newsroom production assistant. Brooke Ruth is roundtable senior producer. And I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again. Have a great weekend.
