S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Each Friday roundtable gives journalists a chance to unpack recent stories about our region. But it's also a moment to talk to storytellers of all kinds. Today , we listen back to conversations with some notable storytellers across genre and form , including familiar voices like Scott Bass of The Surf Report.
S2: This morning I used the word cashmere. I said , the clouds are like coastal cashmere.
S1: We also talk with one local writer bringing indigenous horror to the forefront. Plus , a pair of San Diego bred comic artists share what's kept their friendship going for so long over a love of drawing and storytelling. That's coming up on KPBS roundtable. Each week here on roundtable , we talk to journalists and storytellers who cover all kinds of aspects of our region and culture. And this year , we've been celebrating some of those voices through a series we call San Diego Storytellers. After a long week of election news , we thought it would be a good time to revisit some of our favorite conversations from that series. First up is a familiar voice for KPBS listeners. That's Scott Bass. He's well known in and around San Diego for his daily surf reports. Whether the waves are bumpy , crumbly or glassy , Scott has long been a staple here on KPBS , giving listeners his signature ocean updates each and every weekday. Here's that conversation. Scott Bass , welcome to roundtable. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. Thank you Andrew. It's good to be here. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Great to have you here in person. I mean , I got to start with just , you know , I think I have a vision in my head of how you make the surf report. And it's very , you know , melodramatic , has you like overlooking the ocean. But how do you come up with your surf reports each and every morning? Yeah.
S2: Yeah. So there's a variety of different ways that I eventually boil it down to what you hear on the radio. And it starts with just pure data points. So I will scour the internet. There's buoys that I look at. There's a forecasting websites , there's wind whips , websites. Sometimes I have to go to the National Hurricane Center website. So I'll grab various data points. But sort of overlaying that is the fact that I've been in the ocean here for over 40 years , and I'm in the water every single day , more or less , you know , and so I have sort of just a real sense of what's happening in the ocean because like I said , it's it's around me each and every day. I live on the coast and it's just a part of my DNA.
S1: Okay , so you're not looking out your window , right? In these. Hours.
S2: Hours. I do look out the window. You know , when I'm stuck on some sort of horrible metaphor or similar or something , and I look out the window for guidance.
S1: The way you describe the look in the feel and the waves , you know , you take all this data as you're just describing , but you really , you know , give it to us in a very unique style. Your own style. How do you think about the language around surfing and things like the ocean and the waves?
S2: Well , I mean , it's it's not super complicated , really. What I do is I just , I will I will look at the ocean for a while and go , well , what does it look at? I know it's gray and I know it's glassy , but how can I convey that? You know , for over and over and over again , because I've been doing the report for a long time , and you can only say it's gray and glassy so many ways , you know. And so , you know , sometimes it looks soft. And I'll think about something that's soft , like this morning there. I use the word cashmere. I said , the clouds are like coastal cashmere. Or it might be , um , that the sand or the ocean surface is textured. And I'll ask myself , how what does it look like besides just saying , you know , it's textured sometimes it could be , um , you know , dollops of a meringue pie. If it's extremely windy , there's , you know , so I basically kind of just sit there and think about it for a while , and , and of course I will , you know , go through a thesaurus or I'll talk to my wife and , and I do have a dear friend who's a creative writing professor at USC. And over the years , he's given me that sort of like that word of the day calendar where you can peel off a word of the day. And sometimes , as I mentioned earlier , I'll try to crowbar a word in that that I've never even said before. In fact , funny story , if I can , I'll tell you a funny story. Yeah. This dear friend of mine and his wife had a young kid who was in the San Diego County Spelling Bee , and she won the spelling bee. For all of San Diego County. It's a big deal. I think it's televised even maybe even on KPBS. And , um. And she won using the word fuliginosus. And I went out to dinner with them that night , and they were like , yeah , our daughter won. She used the word fuliginosus , and I go , oh my gosh , what does it mean? You know , fuliginosus basically means I'm sooty or a charcoal in nature or like a gray , if you will , sort of foreboding. And , um , and I'm like , you know what? Tomorrow morning , I'm gonna crowbar that word into my surf report. And I did the surf report , and I mispronounced the word. I think I said , you know , fugu villainous or something. I just didn't say it right , you know? And I told my wife , of course , my wife was just upset. And , uh , but that's sort of an example of sometimes grabbing words that I'm still trying to figure out and trying to crowbar them in and also make it sound like I use those words every day , which of course I don't.
S1: Yeah , but I mean , it kind of fits into this , you know , voice we hear describing our sea in our waves. And I think , you know , for me , like , I may not even understand all the terms. I mean , is there just a basic vocabulary breakdown on how we can better understand the waves? Like what concepts are most important for someone to understand it?
S2: Yeah , that's a great question. I think one of the big ones is the interval , the period that the swell energy comes in. Sometimes I'll say , you know , it's southwest swell at 18 seconds. Well 18 seconds swell energy is much more powerful than , say , an eight second or a ten second period , which is basically a wind swell. So there's just not as much energy behind the wave. So an eight a three foot swell at 18 seconds could be a 6 to 8 foot wave when it reaches the shore , when it interacts with the bathymetry of the local coastline , whereas a wind swell is just not going to have that much power. A three foot wind swell is going to be a three foot wave. A three foot long period groundswell could be a 6 or 8 foot wave.
S1: Well , I want to kind of go back a little bit. You mentioned , you know , you've been here in our oceans for a long time. I think you said 40 plus years. You spent a lot of your youth here in San Diego. I think you grew up in North County. Can you talk about what San Diego was like at that time , and how surfing started playing a role in your in your youth?
S2: Yeah , well , so we moved here in 77. I was 12 years old and we moved to Del Mar , California. And Del Mar specifically was much different because there wasn't any development east of the I-5. Carmel Valley had yet to be developed. So out there where Torrey Pines High School was , the the high school was the only thing out there. I went to a friend's house next door neighbor , and he had a pile of surfing magazines , and I was already , of course , on a skateboard , riding a skateboard around. And skateboarding is basically Sidewalk surfing , you're sort of simulating. You are , in fact , simulating surfing. And then when I got to the surf magazine Surfer Magazine , you know , I was just engrossed in the adventure and , um , the hope and the promise and the excitement that that the subculture of surfing presented to me. And so I just completely , um , was absorbed by it. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. You know , I think , I don't know , in conversations I've had with surfers , sometimes I've found it hard for folks to put into words what is so magical about surfing? I think , you know , it means so much to a lot of people , especially here in San Diego. Um , but , you know , sometimes it can be hard kind of communicating to maybe someone that doesn't serve. What's so special about it , you know? Why do you think that is kind of hard to encapsulate?
S2: Yeah , it's a great question. And it's one that , you know , people ask us all the time , right? Like , people will get out of the water and I can tell that they're They just feel really good about themselves or about they're they're they're just they're being. There's a sense of of happiness. And I in fact , I mentioned um , one time I asked my daughter. She goes , gosh , I feel so great. You know , after surfing , I was like , why do you think that is? And we couldn't really come to terms with what it is. But my sense is that there's quite a bit at play that we don't think about. Of course , the top layer is , look , we're exercising , you know , our heart rate is going up , we're getting brain chemistry is firing. Um , and that's the case no matter what exercise you do. So there's that. Then on top of that , um , you know , we're in nature. We've entered , um , this beautiful thing , the Pacific Ocean and , um , and just being in nature and exercising those two things are just , you know , just positive things. Right? And then on top of that , a lot of times we don't realize , but subconsciously when we go in the ocean , we are entering the food chain. And so I think when people get out of the water , they're like , oh yeah , I feel great. I don't think they acknowledge that you just survived. Maybe that's part of the reason you feel so good. I mean , there's rip currents , there's big fish , there's stingrays , there's stuff that can , you know , do you harm. And so , um , there's that part of it. And then I guess , sort of the last part is that as cliche as it is , I do believe that that surfing has a spiritual nature to it. And and I'm not sure what it is. I don't think it's hunting down waves and riding the waves. My sense is , Andrew , is that when I'm sitting quietly in the evening , there's no one around me. I'm looking at the horizon line. It's just , um , there's a there's a stillness that is really powerful. And the horizon line provides so much hope. And you're staring at hope for hours. And then that stillness that I mentioned , I think all of that sort of evokes , um , sort of , um , you know , like a universal spirit , if you will , for , you know , for I don't want to get too in the weeds with , um , spiritual dogma , but there's something there. So there's those things , there's the exercise , there's the spirituality of it , there's the surviving of your surf session. All of that stuff adds up to a phrase that has been used in advertising in the surf industry , which is only a surfer knows the feeling. And it's really that kind of sums it up. It's really is hard to express what it is that we feel , and it's really only a surfer knows the feeling.
S1: And so much to it. Like you mentioned. I mean , one thing that that comes to me , I'm not , you know , much of a surfer , but you talked about that kind of dangerous aspect. It's like , I feel like I kind of have to accept that I'm not in control when I'm in the water. There is that you mentioned like rip rip currents , things like that. I mean , it's just it's such a powerful force and yet such a source of beauty and all this other stuff. So , um , surfing can also feel , I don't know , a world that can be kind of , like , hard to enter. I felt , you know what I mean? Just the culture can be hard to to , like , get in with. It can be hard to get started. But , you know , what do you say to someone that may be interested in getting into surfing but , you know , maybe intimidated or may feel a little. Yeah , not know where to start? Yeah.
S2: Yeah. There is a sense of , you know , like we're dealing with a limited resource , right? There's only so many waves that are coming in. You've got your an hour and a half in the water. You do want to get that exercise that I mentioned. You know , you are kind of hunting down your wave so to speak. So there's a selfish nature to it , which probably pervades that sense that , hey , these people aren't really welcoming me. It's not like , for instance , like if I go skiing , I go up to mammoth or something , and I'm in a in the line. Everybody's genuinely nice and talking and talking about their last ride and where they're going to go next. And there can be sort of more of a , um , like , you know , um , blinkers on , blinders on in the water , you know , not necessarily talking to each other maybe. Um , and I think that speaks to sort of that selfish nature that we're dealing with a limited resource which , you know , conveys what you're speaking about , this , this , this subculture that's a little bit intimidating , perhaps , and not as welcoming , perhaps , as I would have hoped. But that's really genuine. It's gone. It's gotten way better , you know , especially post-Covid. There are so many new surfers to the to the sport and to the culture , which is great. You know , my feeling is more surfers , the better. That just means we've got more happy people , you know? And um , but yeah , so it's gotten better. But yeah , I understand that there is a bit of an intimidation factor.
S1: So , I mean , I think people really respond to your surf reports and frankly , whether they're surfers or not , you know , I've had conversations with folks that just how much they enjoy it. And we've talked a little bit about some of the reasons why and the language you use. But I'm just curious , have you , you know , had any memorable interactions with fans or feedback from folks because they do get a sense that people really connect with those surf reports? Yeah.
S2: Yeah. No , I've just I'm always excited. I'll get emails from people , um , saying , hey , love what you do , you should put out a book , you know , keep doing what you're doing , that kind of thing. And , um , and it's wonderful. And I always respond and say , hey , thanks so much for listening to KPBS. We appreciate your support. And , um , and I've gotten I've gotten emails from people in Iowa that listen to KPBS streaming and they're like , hey , I love your surfboard. I'm here in Iowa. I used to live in San Diego. I had a girl in Washington , DC who has a Substack as a writer , and her mother said , hey , you should interview Scott Bass. I listen to a surf reporter every morning. I don't surf or anything , but it's wonderful. And so she did , you know , an interview in Washington , D.C. , on basically , I don't know if it was a political Substack , but it was something in D.C. and we just talked about how neat it is. You know , the connection , I guess because of the internet that people can have all over the world with , with KPBS.
S1: That was my conversation with Scott Bass , the voice behind KPBS Surf Report. You can hear it weekday mornings at seven , eight and again at noon. Coming up , a conversation with indigenous horror writer Shane Hawke where we hear about how he incorporates his own experiences and heritage into his work. This is KPBS roundtable. Stay tuned. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken here on the roundtable. We like to highlight the work of artists and writers through a series we call San Diego Storytellers. Writers like Shane Hawke. Just a few years ago , he had a vision for an anthology of dark fiction , all by native writers. That dream became a reality in 2023 , when the book Never Whistle at Night hit bookstore shelves and immediately connected with both readers and critics , became a national bestseller , spending well over a year on the indie bestseller list. This summer , I had the chance to sit down with Shane to talk about his new book , a follow up to the original called back for Blood Never Whistle at Night , part two. Here's that conversation.
S2: Hey , Andrew.
S3: Thanks for having me. Great to have you here.
S1: So before getting into the new book , I just wanted to take a moment to reflect on the first book's success , which you've you know , at one point you described it as a moonshot. I'm wondering , as you look back on that now. As you get ready for this new release , what moments stand out to you?
S3: Oh , there are quite a few moments. Um , yeah. We thought it was a moonshot because , you know , a Native American or Indigenous anthology like this has never been published at this level , the big five level. You know , we published with Penguin Random House. So , you know , we took our dreams , carried him on our back and slingshot slingshot them to the moon and we hit the moon. So it was pretty crazy. Um , you know , we thought we were going to self-publish this or maybe do a small indie , um , indie horror imprint. Um , but no , we we carried it all the way. Um , some highlights are just going out into the world and , you know , talking to colleges , universities. Um , the students that are really analyzing these stories. The major impacts that I've had and all the writers in this anthology , this first one on indigenous students and non-Native folks as well. Just really being interested in the stories that we have to share. Um , along with recently in , I believe , may , um , Netflix , uh , they put out the second season of the fourth , uh , the second season of the Four Seasons , uh , which is a comedy show with , uh , Tina Fey and Will Forte. And , uh , a fan pointed this out and they said , hey , uh , I recognize that book , and they posted a screenshot or a , you know , a picture of their TV and a character was reading. Never was last night at the beach. And I was stunned. I was like , whoa , this is on Netflix. And so I immediately since I have a subscription , I went to that episode. It was season two , episode three , and I believe that the character's name is Claude. And sure enough , you know about less than five minutes into the episode. He's literally on the beach. He's flipping through it , and then even better , later on , he's reading it again at night. And that scene was about 10s straight of the camera zooming in slowly just on the front cover. So it was an amazing promotion. Like a , uh , we didn't pay for it. It was just a random thing that the producers , I guess , chose to do. But , uh , that was a really neat thing to do.
S1: But also really demonstrates how it just connected with the broader culture as well. Right? Yeah.
S3: Yeah. And we've had so many people reach out on Instagram threads wherever saying , oh my gosh , you just saw this book on Netflix , you know? And now I just ordered a copy and it's amazing.
S1: Um , yeah , that's really cool. And then also just to , uh , not to add on to all the accolades on to you , but , um , the the book is also , you know , been selected as part of the Barack Obama Presidential Center to in Chicago , right?
S3: Yeah , that Presidential Center just opened on Juneteenth this year in Southside Chicago. And my friend and co-editor , Ted Van Elst , he was just browsing the Chicago Public Library's online system just to see , you know , his books are published as well. And he likes to see , you know , how many copies are out there , how long the holds are. And then he saw in everyone's last night had a non circulatory copy and he said , what the heck is this. So he clicked on it and it said location. Um Obama presidential reading room. And so he looked into it immediately. You know , this was late at night , you know , because he's in Chicago , I'm in San Diego here and , you know , Wellington midnight , I was researching , what the heck does this mean? And it turns out that the Obamas selected titles to include in the specific reading room within that new presidential library where titles can't be checked out , but the public can enter that room and see all of the favorite books that the Obamas enjoy. And sure enough , it's in there. Wow.
S1: Wow. All right , so let's talk about the new book here. Tell us about the vision for back for Blood Never Whistle at Night , part two. It comes out this Tuesday. But yeah , give us give us the vision for it. And why you you wanted to follow it up with this collection? Yeah.
S3: Yeah. So it's out Tuesday. Um , and we really wanted to kind of put our foot down and put the pedal to the metal , because across all of these book signings , readings , university talks , what have you. Um , a lot of people come up to us and they say , hey , we love these stories in the first one. But you know what? If we crank it up a notch or , you know what? If we give them the real , real , real stuff? And so , um , we've also seen across online reviews that a lot of people had , you know , a bit more , um , a bit more push and pull for more horror. Um , because the first one was labeled as dark fiction. And so being a horror writer and editor myself and so is Ted , we thought , you know , hey , we have to do it this time. So it was , you know , from the start , it was the intention. You know , we need to have a horror anthology through and through. So we were very , um , meticulously curating this thing from the invitees , um , the established authors that we maybe were not friends with , but we know of them , and we reach out to them and say , hey , you know , a lot of these people aren't horror writers , but , you know , we want you to write a horror story. What's your version of a horror story? And it really has to at least somewhat comport to , you know , the genre's conventions , at least a little bit. And then we did the same thing for our open call. I even wrote an article and published it , you know , hey , this is what dark fiction is , and this is what horror is. And we are looking for the ladder. And we can't wait to read your stories. And we got over 150. It was pretty amazing.
S1: You know , briefly , can you talk about that distinction? How do you see that distinction between dark fiction and horror?
S3: Yeah , dark fiction , I would say , is largely an umbrella term for any speculative story that delves into melancholy , heavily dark vibes. Um , it's really the darkness. Uh , you know , you can get into the sadness , you know , things that , you know , you probably don't really normally talk about in polite discussion , but there are things that we need to discuss. Uh , whereas horror , I believe , uh , is a lot more visceral. Um , you know , there's blood and guts , of course , but , um , you know , but it's , uh , I mean , it's also changing as a genre. So , you know , you see more creatures , you see , you know , the monsters , you see more horrific acts that are not just human. Um , you see a lot more supernatural things. Or as in Western literary conventions we call supernatural , where a lot of us natives and indigenous folks , we just see it as reality or life. Um , and so horror we see as a bit a little bit crazier , a little bit less of the mundane. Um , and we tried to really hit those , those sweet spot for all readers.
S1: Uh , you know , I want to talk a little bit about the introduction to this anthology , which you wrote along with your co-editor. Yeah. I'm wondering if you can just , you know , briefly read a piece from that introduction and tell us more about what you wanted the reader to take from it. Sure.
S3: Sure. So here's the little excerpt. Carry the understanding that horror is not a detour from serious literature. It is one of literature's oldest modes , built to handle what polite forms refuse to hold. Bring a willingness to be unsettled not only by monsters , but by systems , by histories , by small choices that become habits and then become laws. Wow.
S1: Wow. I mean , yeah , talk talk more about , you know , what you wanted to convey there in those words , but also the introduction more broadly. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. So with that excerpt , I was really kind of answering this , this thing that we see in , in real life in online communities that say , you know , horror is kind of a joke of a genre or it's just like this silly thing that has creatures in blood and monsters , and let's not take it seriously , you know , versus literary fiction or memoirs or , you know , even crime fiction and such. Mhm. Um , but I argue that , hey , it's one of the oldest ways that humans have , you know , confronted fear in the unknown. Um , and also , um , you know , it's you should also not just be afraid of the monsters in these stories or any other story that you hear from a Native American. But you should also think of the I would say it , I would call it the banality of evil in that , you know , everyday actions and complicity , you know , can accumulate into large scale , legalized injustice. And so these things that we kind of leave on the table , things that , you know , a lot of people ignore , they can grow into laws , they can really lock people up , they can take away land. They can have corporations swallow up water rights , what have you. Uh , my friend and co-editor , Ted van Aalst , he just shared with me that he was doing an event and a woman , um , associated with it said , hey , uh , I thought all the Indians were dead , you know? And that statement is very common to us. You know , it might be shocking to listeners , but that's kind of a thing that we. We come across. I came across it as a high school history teacher a lot , too. Um , but , you know , that's that's kind of a product of the system , you know. What school does she go to or the district guidelines? What the what guidelines did the teacher have? You know , how how does society treat these subjects? Are we just relegated to the past when , you know , are we just , uh , past tense people or are we real breathing right now? Present tense and future people?
S1: You know , we're we have just a little over two minutes left here. Um , and I just wanted to mention , in addition to curating the stories included in this new anthology , you also have a story of your own in it. It's called ivories. Yeah. And it touches on your life as a father of a young child. Um , you know , do you tend to get your ideas from everyday life? How do those ideas for stories evolve for you?
S3: Yeah , for me , I like to incorporate real stories from my dad's side of the family. Um , and I like to either share stories that he's told or my grandpa or grandma is told and down the line , or just my own life. And really , it just kind of trickles in. Just any little thing can become a horror story if you think about it. You know , the way someone looks at you , the way you like. Last night I was taking out the trash and to the trash bins to the curb , and I was looking out into the the dark woods in front of me. And I was thinking , oh , you know what is out there? What's staring at me right now? So it can be anything , any part of your life. You can flip it and turn it into a horror story.
S1: Um , you know , you say you're a fan of ambiguous endings , and I think that's the case here with ivories. Why? Why , what is it about ambiguous endings that you find. So I don't know. Intriguing.
S3: Well , I think I don't like stories that wrap up and give you a nice red bow. And you carry on with your day like a , say , a Disney fied ending. Because life , real life doesn't end that way. And even though we are writing fiction and some people see it as escapism , I do like to somewhat mirror real life and know that , you know , especially in the horror genre , horror continues. It's a cycle , just like time as a circle. It it rotates and it comes back. Just like the monster never dies , it comes back again. That's what I think horror endings should be.
S1: That was San Diego author Shane Hawke. His latest book is called back for Blood Never Whistle at Night , part two.
S4: Coming up.
S1: It's hard to talk about storytelling in San Diego. It's out talking about comics and Comic-Con , you're more when roundtable returns. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Comic-Con is built on a shared love of storytelling centered right here in San Diego. That culture has helped inspire numerous comic artists to create their own worlds through the art of comics. This summer at Comic-Con , I had the chance to sit down with two of those artists , Bobby Rubio and Keith and Jones , who first met back in the 1980s at Bell Middle School in Paradise Hills. Keith and Jones is the creator of the comic series The Power Knights. He's also owner of the publishing house Kid Comics and co-founder of Black Comics Day , which happens each February. Bobby Rubio is a comic artist and animator who's worked with studios like Marvel and Disney , is the creator of the comic Neighborhood Legend , which was just released earlier this week. Here's my conversation with Bobby and Keith in Live from the sometimes noisy halls of Comic-Con earlier this year. So , Keith , and to start , I'm.
S5: Wondering , can you take us back to the day? A young Keith and Jones walked into the school library at Belton Middle School to get introduced to someone who shared your interest in art.
S6: I think it was at Arvind.
S7: Arvind claims that he came to me one of our classmates came to. He claims he came. He coordinated the whole thing anyway. And , uh , he caught up to me in school , in class and said that there's a guy named Bobby Rubio who can draw like you or as good as you can. And I had not encountered anyone at my level that I can really. I don't know if respect this the right word , but , you know , I don't want to sound arrogant , but it's just I didn't run into a lot of folks that have my skill set.
S6: That's true.
S7: So , um , I kind of halfway believed him , so I was like , yeah , okay , I'll be there at lunch.
S5: And Bobby was similar to you. I mean , what did you what had you heard about Keaton and his artistic abilities at that point? Yeah.
S8: Yeah. I mean , because this is middle school , I was the best artist. And I'm pretty sure Keith was the best artist in his elementary school , so I'm pretty sure we had , like , chips on our shoulders. And so it's funny , you go to middle school for the first time , and , uh , Arvin comes up and I say , hey , man , there's a guy that could draw super awesome. And I'm like , oh , let's see. And and so.
S5: Well , it's so funny how you kind of describe art as like , it's almost like a sport or like this competition. I mean , I think you even describe as like having art battles. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. You know , we totally had art battles for sure.
S7: Like back in the day , just like breakdancing or.
S8: That's right. Yeah. Because , like , you gotta remember , it's like the 80s and hip hop just came about.
S7: And so you hear about the guy on the block or any other neighborhood.
S5: You want to find out more about them and see.
S8: If you.
S5: Can stack up. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S7: Yeah , yeah. When I saw his work for the first time , you know , I came up behind him , you know , and he was already drawing something in the library. And then , like I said , I wasn't expecting too much. And so when I saw the work , my heart skipped a little bit. I was like , oh , he's like me. He really is good , you know?
S5: So I want to talk about , you know , we kind of touched on your childhood and how you developed this love for comics , but it's one thing to have a kind of childhood love for something. It's another thing to pursue professionally. Yeah. And , like , keep doing it into adulthood. And I know you each had , you know , some similar journeys , but like , just struggles to kind of like , as any art maker. It's not easy , right? Right.
S8: Right. But also in the beginning we did have similarities because Keaton and I both wanted to be a comic book artist , and Keith and I put our own portfolios together to show to comic book editors , because back in the day , if you wanted to be a comic book artist , you built a portfolio of comic book pages and you would show them to editors. And so every year Keith and I would go. As kids , we would go wander around looking for the Comic Con , and we would seek out comic book editors and show them our pages. Right. And so we did have that in common. We did start out that way.
S7: And the way that I , I know for me , the way I found out was through my dad , who , you know , I always tell the story. My dad was Navy man , right? And so , you know , if you're a Navy breath , you know , your your , your , your dad's going to be overseas months at a time. And during his downtime , he would read comic books on the ship. Right. And he would come home and just dump these books in my room. And he just kind of , you know , unknowingly made me to a comic book fiend that developed into me wanting to actually make the comics. And so my dad , once again , when I was 15 , he took me to fourth and be at the old convention center where Comic-Con used to be , and he gave me a little bit of pocket change and told me to go into that building. I'll pick you up later , and I will. What's in there? You'll see. It's kind of like Empire Strikes Back when you tell Luke to go into the cage.
S8: Oh , yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah , yeah.
S7: Like that. We'll see , you'll see. And so I went in there and it was like Nirvana was like , bam! I'm like , what? You can actually meet the creators of the comic books. Yeah. And through that experience , I learned that I like to dovetail to what he was saying. I learned that I needed to put a portfolio together to show these different publishers to get work. You know , and you're , you know , as a kid , you're you , you you don't think about the real world. You have no knowledge of the real world , and anything is possible. So I'm not thinking of the largeness of what I'm trying to do. Yeah , I'm saying I'm going to work for Marvel Comics. And so I , I , I put my portfolio together in the very next year. Um , I like he said , I showed my stuff around and I picked up a job from Apple Comics. Yeah. Uh , they're not around any longer , but , um , it was a Dracula story. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. Keith Anne got that first. He got the first comic.
S7: I got paid to do a page. Did you know , did I?
S8: Did you talk after the fact? And I was like , that's pretty cool , man. Whatever.
S7: If you were a winning editor or editor , editorial contest and stuff , uh , at high school , and it's.
S8: Yeah , that's what's funny. It's like back and forth. We would have our wins for sure.
S5: The art battles continued.
S8: Yeah , they they would. And I mean , we were still rivals , but friendly rivals.
S7: Like an unsaid competition , like we didn't. Yeah , yeah. Well , I'm going to wonder if , you.
S8: Know , I wasn't even like. That.
S7: That.
S5: Yeah , but but you talked about how kind of there have been some sort of booms and busts in the comic industry especially , you know , as , as you all , you know , trying to make a living in this business talk about like , how you kind of face those challenges and approach that over the course of your career. Okay.
S8: Okay. When I to like Keith and Keith and first got that comic book gig and that was awesome. And I eventually got into the comic book industry by being an intern with Jim Lee at Wildstorm.
S5: Legendary figure?
S8: Yeah , yeah. His studio was in Mira mesa , and I was doing an internship with him with a bunch of other artists. This was in I'm going to date myself , but it was 1994 , and , um , this was after CalArts and which I graduated from. I had two internships , one with Jim Lee and one with Disney. And but afterwards , my heart was still in comic books and I. So I came back to Jim and I was like , hey , Jim , I'd like to still continue comics. What do you think? And he said , hey , Bobby , the comic book industry , just the bubble just burst. Like all Marvel just went bankrupt. It's everybody buying comics that's not happening anymore. So I would suggest you go to animation. So from that point on , I just jumped and went to animation and started doing that. But as I was doing animation , it's great and all. And Keith Anne and I have been talking through the years and it's just like , that's cool to work on somebody else's project , but it's also cool to do our own stuff. Yeah. And so I eventually I started my comic book Alcatraz High , and I was I was here at Comic-Con. I had a booth here for 15 plus years. Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah. So I would do the day job , which was awesome. Working at Disney and and and and Pixar and that's great. But I also wanted the creative itch of being an artist and my own stuff.
S7: You see , he says that , right? He's like , he's pining to do comics and he's in the animation. So I'm looking at I'm on the outside looking in at his career and I'm like , oh man , Bobby gets to work on these big movies and all this. You know , he's hobnobbing with these big names , and he's going to the Oscars and all this stuff. And , um , so I was , like , really impressed with his career , too. Even though I wasn't , you know , I was still doing the the comic book thing , but I was moonlighting more or less as a comic book artist. I was making my bones in graphic design , like in marketing companies and stuff like that. I had to pay my bills. So my skill set was going into that in that arena. But just like him , I would go home and I'm like , man , I'm still drawing these power nights. I'm still drawing these childhood characters.
S5: And I want to hear more about them because like , um , the Power Nights you've been working on that you had that idea of.
S7: Since I was ten years old? Yeah.
S8: Yeah. I even saw it back then. That was crazy.
S5: Can you. Like , I don't know , just talk to us about the process of developing a comic , like the work that goes into it and just. Yeah , how you think about it.
S7: Obviously , you got to start with , you have to have some type of story to hang everything on. Mhm.
S5: Mhm. Is that where it started? With Power Nights for you? You just.
S8: I you know.
S7: When I initially created the characters , it was a , it was a a response to my enthusiasm over Teen Titans. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. We both love.
S7: Two super hard quarantine Teen Titans and shout out to , um , recipes to George.
S8: George Perez , our favorite comic book. Writer.
S7: Writer. And the writer was Marv Wolfman. He's still around. But to answer your question , I guess through osmosis and just absorbing that stuff , we started learning how to put a story structure together and plots and all this stuff , and and it spilled out into like , okay , I'm going to take the Titans and create my version of the Titans of Power Nights. And so but even back then , as a kid , I didn't really have a real cohesive , cohesive story. I didn't , you.
S5: Know , it wasn't like a master law. Man.
S8: Man.
S7: I was just kind of following whatever the Titans were doing , you know , just kind of aping that a little bit. Right. You know.
S5: Is that similar to how you approached.
S8: I suppose , I think , uh , for neighborhood legend I , there was something I wanted to say. I wanted to create a Filipino superhero. And and I also wanted to I knew I wanted to have the story set in San Diego. And so in my mind , I was trying to think of , like , moments that would be really , uh , cool in the book that would also , uh , fit the structure of the narrative. And so , I mean , I definitely had to have a taco shop in there. And , and I definitely had to have like some scaling.
S7: When did that concept actually come into your mind?
S8: When did Neighborhood Legend came? You know what? I think it was just a want to have a superhero. Okay , here's what it was too , because there's a character that both Keith and I love , which is Nightwing. Right. And Nightwing , uh , he is Batman's protege , and he has sticks , and he's a stick fighter. And that is Eskrima and that. And I was like , that's awesome. Nightwing is doing the Filipino martial arts. And then I was like , wait a minute , wouldn't it be cool if it was a Filipino that was doing Filipino martial arts instead of me rooting for Nightwing? I mean , I love Nightwing , I still do , but I just feel like there needs to be representation. Um , and especially after I , I directed float , which was , uh , it's on Pixar. It was a Pixar animated short that featured the very first Filipino American lead characters. And from there , I just had a want to , like , create even more Filipino representation. And so and so in my mind , I was like , okay , let's do the Filipino version of Nightwing. Let's put in my , my version and and.
S5: And set in.
S8: In set in.
S5: San Diego.
S8: Instead of Gotham City. And I think that's a cooler setting in my opinion. I love San Diego.
S7: And also just , uh , to piggyback off of that , it's just like you said , even though we love these , the those traditional characters like Spider-Man and Teen Titans , uh , X-Men and all that stuff. Um , the truth of the matter is , is that there wasn't a lot of , um , representation from our , our world , our.
S8: Our community.
S7: At all unity. And , um , as as kids , you're not really thinking about that much , right? But as you get older , you you start to it becomes more apparent , you know , and so it's like , wait , man , I do have the skill set to to make a difference. Yeah. So there's nothing really stopping me , right. So let me go ahead and try to put something together that represents where I'm at least represents my culture. But also , um , it's entertaining for anyone outside of the culture. Right.
S5: Right. And for that , you've founded , uh , Black Comics Day. Yeah. About , you know , 8 or 9 years ago , it's been running. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. And that wasn't. Yeah. It's just that wasn't even on my bucket list. It just fell in my lap through my mom because she. She's a fundraiser for , uh , the Malcolm X library on Euclid. And so they were like , hey , we want to do something different for Black History Month. Do you think you could do something comic book related? And then I , I was like , yeah , I don't have time for that. But then I said , wait a minute , maybe , maybe I could put some type of comic con together where. Yeah. Um , since we've all been kind of complaining about representation , maybe this is an opportunity to get something started , you know? Um , yeah. So it was kind of a test , a test bed. And here , here I am almost nine years later doing this show still. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. I mean , that's a tribute to Keaton's leadership qualities. I mean , if , if , if he was terrible at it , it would have failed a long time ago. And like , I see it in Keaton and he's a voice of his community. And , you know , I'm so proud of Keith and what he's accomplished. I appreciate it. Yeah , man. Every time. I was like , when you first had it , I was like , I'm gonna show up to it , man. I gotta , I gotta be there and like , uh , yeah , man , Keith is awesome. And and I think that now that we have a platform like , Ethan has a platform , I have a platform like we're all , we should do something with it. And also to like what's great about Keith and I is also that we are telling stories from a authentic place , like we really grew up , uh , Filipino , African American. So we have that perspective and it's authentic. It's we're really telling you how it is. We're not faking it.
S7: It's there's just a , there's a there's a texture there that can only come from someone that's experiencing.
S1: That was my conversation with San Diego comic artists Bobby Rubio and Keith and Jones live at Comic-Con. Keaton is the owner of the comic publishing company Kid Comics and founder of Black Comics. Day happens each February in San Diego , and Bobby Rubio is a comic artist and animator. His latest comic is called Neighborhood Legend. It's out now. That'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thanks so much for listening. If you have any ideas for San Diego storytellers you'd like to hear , let us know. You can email us at roundtable at KPBS , or leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables technical producer was Rebecca Chacon. The show was produced by Ashley Rush. Kayla Parra is the newsroom production assistant. Brooke Rooth is roundtable senior producer. I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again for listening. Have a great weekend.
