S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hindman. On this episode of KPBS Midday Edition , San Diego adopted a new working definition of Islamophobia. But does it go far enough to protect Muslim communities? This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. The San Diego City Council adopted a working definition of Islamophobia on Tuesday. The definition describes it as racism , prejudice , discrimination , hostility or hatred directed at Muslims people perceived to be Muslim or their property. But is Islamophobia the most accurate term for that harm? The word phobia suggests an involuntary fear , but anti-Muslim bias and hate can involve deliberate discrimination , institutional exclusion and deadly violence. The city's action comes nearly four months after two gunmen attacked the Islamic Center of San Diego , killing three people. The attackers idolized perpetrators of white supremacist attacks , and they sought to replicate the 2019 Christchurch , New Zealand shooting where 51 Muslims were killed. Here with me to examine the city's recent action and response is to Zionism. She's the executive director for the San Diego chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations or Care. Tasmin , welcome back to the show.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S1: So glad to have you here. First , how are you doing?
S2: I'm doing good. Thank you. Thanks for asking. Um. Yesterday's vote has made has made me feel positive about where the city is headed , um , and how our Muslim community members are feeling heard today. So I have a positive streak stepping in today.
S1: Yeah , there's there's optimism there. And I'm glad to hear that. Um , before we talk about the city's new action on this , I want to define our terms. So when you use the word Islamophobia , what are you describing?
S2: Unfortunately , we have been trapped in that word. And , uh , you know , it may be a byproduct of our colonial mentality that we've all lived with where Muslims have made to be the boogeyman. And the term Islamophobia got attached early on. And , uh , as we try to define it and refine our definitions , unfortunately , the more I push saying , let's call it anti-Muslim hate , uh , I don't know if the larger research and development community has is there where they can change that definition , bring that shift. So we do call it Islamophobia still , but what it is , is an anti-Muslim hate bigotry against Muslims or people perceived to be Muslim.
S1: Um , so given that , um , can you walk us through this new definition that the city has laid out? What is it saying here? Absolutely.
S2: Absolutely. So the definition that tells us that , um , there especially let me go back a step back and say at this time when there's rising reports of hate and discriminations and Muslim families are feeling unsafe today , the yesterday's vote means that we are defining the fear and , uh , that these community members are feeling. And this also shows that the city recognizes our concerns about our safety and willing to stand with our community , as Islamophobia defines. As you mentioned earlier , it is an unfounded word because it's not phobia that is being defined. It's not a it's not a fear that can be rationalized. It's an irrational fear of Muslims , which is based on hate and prejudice. Muslims are not the boogeyman. Muslims are not a foreign creature that you need to be afraid of. Muslims are your neighbors or your teachers. They're your educators. They're your doctors. They are community members just like you. And for you to fear them without knowing them , without getting making an attempt to know them is irrational and totally not acceptable.
S1: So there's still there is still work to do , um , around this , this term to sort of to better convey what is happening. Um , but why do you feel it's important for a city government to adopt a working definition like this?
S2: We can't what we don't define. So the resolution provides an important framework. Um , and the next steps going from there is ensuring that this framework is if reflected in our education. Community safety protocols , institutional practices , partnerships and meaningful engagement with Muslim residents on behalf of law enforcement and city government. Law enforcement now has a framework when somebody is called a terrorist , out in a public event or out on the streets. This framework provides what is and is not to be defined as Islamophobia , and then city government and other institutions can take steps accordingly to ensure that Muslims are not discriminated against.
S1: Why do you think the city hasn't adopted a working definition up until this point?
S2: The city is growing. I will just leave it at that. We unfortunately , Islamophobia for the last 25 years , since nine over 11 has been rising. But it has taken our institutions and our government to recognize this as the big issue. It is as the vice it is in our community. Um , So as a community , as a city of we are growing. We are adopting definitions that define what cripples our community's progress.
S1: And this this resolution. And for the sake of this conversation , anti-Muslim resolution is is believed to be the first of its kind in California. Third of its kind nationally , according to care , is the hope that other governments will follow suit.
S2: We're hoping that other governments will realize that because the the voice of anti-Muslim hate is across the country , we've seen that numbers rising year after year across the country , especially since the last 25 years , since nine over 11 , Muslims have been constantly targeted. And our hope is our cities , our counties , our states , and then our national government recognizes how this is affecting our Muslim communities right here , and how this has been a problem for so many years to come.
S1: You know , a UCSD survey conducted after the shooting happened found that nearly 9 in 10 Muslims in San Diego say they feel less safe. But really paint the picture for us here. What have the past few months been like for members of the of the Muslim community?
S3: For the past few years.
S2: Our community has been grieving , as you know. Um , we , you know , news cycles have moved on. Law enforcement has moved on. The city was is attempting to move on , but we can't just move on. We as a community , we as the Muslim community , which is so viscerally affected by this , is moving forward , is moving forward with the grief in our hearts , uh , with our mourning for our loss , but also with the determination that we will move forward , demanding accountability from institutions , from governments. We move forward demanding from our city government , our county government , our state government to recognize why this happened and demand a very intentional investment in the study of the causes that brought us to this loss , in the study of the causes , why these young people were affected in the way that they were , why their minds were so washed with hate that they conducted this vile , violent act.
S1: You know , Council member Shawn Rivera and Joe LaCava proposed and authored this resolution. Ella Rivera said , this is just the first step. Take a listen.
S4: What happens from here is based on the conversations that we happen , and both proactively getting ahead of situations that need to be gotten ahead of and responding during important times in the way that the community has said will feel important to that.
S1: And so while this definition is a step in the right direction from where you said , I mean , what more can elected officials and community leaders do to combat anti-Muslim hate?
S3: As I mentioned.
S2: Earlier , we need to make a very intentional investment in studying why this anti-Muslim hate exists and what as a community , as institutions and as partnerships with , you know , with various coalitions , with various nonprofits , various community organizations that work in these spaces , and our elected government can work in , um , dismantling all of that. Where do we start? We start with early education of young people. Uh , we talk about , uh , inclusion of , you know , um , a study about Muslims and , and , and , and a conscious effort for our community to involve themselves in interfaith work , in cross-sectional dialogue , where we break apart this , this hate and build bridges where Muslim families feel like they belong and our children feel like they're safe at school , where bullying and harassment doesn't happen because a child goes to school with a hijab. The residents of the city need to understand that city government stands behind them and addresses their concerns. And when when a time of , uh , hurt and pain happens , that city government stands with their community members.
S1: Do you feel law enforcement and intelligence go far enough to surveil and prevent these types of attacks?
S3: Uh , the trigger.
S2: Word surveil. In the past , in in years , in decades , the Muslim community has been surveilled , and that information has not been used to protect the Muslim community , but rather to harm them. So we don't promote surveillance of Muslim community. What we what we promote is partnership with Muslim communities , with law , with the institutions , with masjids and nonprofits to find a way where Muslim community members can be made to feel safe without the harm of surveillance. So we want our city government to invest in methodology and in programs where communities are uplifted , rather surveilled and targeted because of the surveillance. Right.
S1: Right. And there's no question , you know , the community has been surveilled. Um , the question is , has that been the case for white supremacist activity or organizations outside of the community who we , as we saw , uh , find that they are targeting Muslim church , you know , Muslim organizations , mosques , um , and things of that nature. Mosque.
S3: Mosque.
S2: Have been targeted with surveillance. Muslim activists have been targeted with surveillance , and this information that is collected has been used to either conduct Ice raids on Muslim communities or , you know , homeland security raids in our communities. Unfortunately , instead of using this information to protect and serve , which is their which is their job , instead this information is to use to surveil and target , deport , detain , um , you know , abuse in a lot of different cases.
S1: Um , it's been abused. Um , earlier this year , the City council passed a resolution adopting the working definition of anti-Semitism by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That definition is used all over the world , but has caused a lot of controversy. Critics say it conflates anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel. When you reflect on that and how it parallels with last night's resolution , what comes up for you?
S2: The resolution that we presented last year , last night was definitely not an invasion of anyone's First Amendment rights. The definition does not restrict your speech against a country or even ideology that is against human rights. Um , in the past , in the last few months ago , when when the IRA definition was presented to city council as an as a community , which which fights for civil rights are criticism was that the definition would constrict the the the community's ability to criticize a government which is conducting a genocide. And we've all seen that genocide happening right in front of our eyes. But yet the definition put in place was constricting our ability to be able to criticize this Genocide , which has cost thousands of lives , tens of thousands of lives , millions of displacement , and yet continues to this day , and the complicity of the US government in this genocide.
S1: You know , how can community members in general foster a sense of religious freedom and belonging , regardless of what space they're in?
S2: The most important thing for us is to know our neighbors. And I know that that sounds a simple thing , but hatred begins when we don't know something and fear it without knowing who or what they are. Right. So our our community members have to make a conscious effort of knowing each other. Come to a mosque if you are. If you want to learn about Islam , if you want to learn about Muslims , come to a mosque. We are a very friendly , open community. We welcome people despite the fact that , you know , a loss that we just faced months ago. Yet we are a very welcoming community. Come join us. The Islamic Center of San Diego still has classes where you can come and learn about Islam with with the Imam. And this is an amazing opportunity for to for you to connect with us instead of hating us because you don't know us.
S1: I've been speaking with Tasia Nizam. She's the executive director for the San Diego chapter of Care. Tosin , thank you so much.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
