S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Today it's been one week since the San Francisco Chronicle published an investigation detailing sexual assault allegations against Eric Swalwell , then a leading candidate for governor of California. We get a window into what it was like to break that story and what it tells us about the role of journalism today. Then a change in who gets to take part in races has raised concerns of discrimination in San Diego's bike racing community. Plus , we take a look into San Diego's architectural history and hear about some of the people preserving it. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. A quick note before we get started. The following conversation may include descriptions of sexual assault and abuse. It's been one week since the story broke that now former Congressman Eric Swalwell sexually assaulted a former staffer. Since then , at least four other women have shared their experiences detailing allegations of sexual harassment , abuse and rape. Swalwell has now resigned from Congress and did his campaign , upending what was already a wide open race for California governor. And the Department of Justice has since opened an investigation into the former representative. So as we continue to follow the political fallout , we wanted to sit down with one of the journalists who broke the story and talk more about the reporting behind it. Alex Youssef is the Washington , D.C. , correspondent at the San Diego San Francisco Chronicle. Rather. Alexi , welcome back to roundtable.
S2: Thanks for having me on.
S1: We appreciate your time after. Really. You know , it's been about almost exactly a week since you published your piece. You and your colleague Sofia Balaguer , you know , published your first story on the Swalwell allegations , you know.
S2: I , I would say things really started to accelerate in the last few days before we published the story last week. There was a lot of intense reporting and long days that went into getting everything ready to go to push publish , and it really did not calm down after that for several days. The response to the story was quite immediate , with many of Eric Swalwell , longtime allies , withdrawing their endorsements , calling on him to drop out of the governor's race to resign. And that drumbeat just increased throughout the weekend. So we were trying to follow what would happen. There were , you know , there was investigations being announced by law enforcement agencies and all kinds of things going on until Sunday night. He finally dropped out of the race and then Monday resigned , announced that he was resigning from Congress. So just a lot in a very short period of time , and we were doing our best to stay on top of all of it.
S1: So , you know , you described it as a whirlwind there. That sounds pretty accurate. Um , but , you know , take us back how this investigation first got started because it happened long before , as you mentioned , like before you guys hit publish , right ? Yeah.
S2: This is something that was building over a couple of months. Um , it started out with my colleague Sophia Bullock , who's been covering the governor's race , starting to hear rumors from people that she was talking to about the race of Eric Swalwell as misconduct. But it was sort of vague. It wasn't clear what that might entail. And as she was trying to pursue those , you know , Accusations to see if there was any substance there. She was kind of hitting dead ends. And then in March , we started to see these posts online from some social media influencers who were bringing those allegations out into the open. And we knew we really needed to vet this and see if there was any substance that we should bring to the attention of California voters so they could make an informed decision. And I think there was a lot of reporters who had the same idea and started digging into this. We went about it as sort of meticulously as we could by reaching out to former staffers of Eric Swalwell and other people in his orbit to see whether what we were hearing about , you know , these rumors that he was having affairs with staff members , you know , sleeping with staff members , these kinds of things might be true. And that work led me to the source that I spoke to for this story we published last Friday , who said that his behavior went far beyond that , that he had actually sexually assaulted her twice.
S1: And this source , because San Francisco Chronicle , you've also kind of unveiled a little bit more of the backstory into how you reported on the story. The source you mentioned there , I mean , it took a while for you to develop trust with her , but she did right off the bat in your first call with her. Kind of encourage you to keep digging , right ? Can you. Can you tell us more about that process ? Yeah.
S2: I mean , this is sort of the slow , meticulous work that has to happen with journalism sometimes. The call where I spoke with this source. She , you know , I was trying to just get a gut check about whether these rumors that I was seen online might be legitimate. And she didn't really disclose anything about her personal experience at that time. But she told me to keep digging. And I asked her , do you know that there's something there , or have you just heard there's something there ? And she said , I know that there's something there. And that made me , you know , think something might have happened to her. And I should try and keep that relationship going in some way. And she , fortunately for me , felt a desire to try and bring this out into the open , even though she wasn't yet comfortable sharing her own experience. So we continued to talk for several weeks about how to go about trying to find women who may have had experiences with Eric Swalwell before she ever disclosed to me the sexual assault allegations. And once she did , oh , yes.
S1: Go , go , go , go ahead , finish your thought.
S2: I'd say once we did , then it became more of a process of trying to corroborate and verify what she was sharing with us. And there was , you know , a lot of work that went into trying to talk to people that she might have told , looked through contemporaneous documents and and do that work so that we felt confident about the reporting that we were sharing.
S1: You mentioned this process of developing trust , um , taking several weeks. And I don't know , I just wonder , and this is something you do , you know , you work with sources , you develop your trust with them. But how do you approach it in , in a story like this where , you know , sexual abuse , sexual assault are involved ? Yeah.
S2: I mean , one of the things that I learned from covering me two allegations , um , almost a decade ago now in Sacramento when I was a reporter there , is that these things take time for people to feel comfortable even speaking aloud sometimes , let alone putting them into a story that's going to go out to the world. And so I was prepared to work with the source , getting her more comfortable with the idea of talking , talking through what the potential Consequences might be as long as I needed to get her to the point at which she was going to let us publish this. But there were some of these external factors I had never dealt with before. That sort of forced her hand in ours. Um , I mean , the influencers , as I mentioned , were getting louder and louder and creating this sort of drumbeat in the governor's race that Eric Swalwell was forced to respond to. And as he began more forcefully denying that he had ever done anything inappropriate with staff members , my source felt an urgency to share her story , to counter that , and to let voters know that there was something substantive here. And so that at the end created this rush to get the story out there. Whereas sometimes these things can take months or years before a source is ever comfortable talking. And , you know , this was kind of unusual because the source knew she didn't have time to wait months or years , and she had to ultimately take that leap of faith to let us publish.
S1: Well , yeah. I mean , you mentioned there this mentioned a couple of times the role of online influencers. And they've had they kind of played an important role in this story , as you mentioned. I don't know. How has that changed how you approach reporting on a story like this ? I mean , it kind of quickens the clock , as you said. But but yeah.
S2: And so it obviously created a whole new dynamic where you're balancing this , you know , chatter that's happening entirely outside of the relationship that you're trying to build with this source. Um , I would say that she had to come to her own decision ultimately , however , and so I was just trying to do the best I can to work with her , you know , figure out what her experience was and how we could corroborate and verify , you know , the legitimacy of what she was telling us outside of this , you know , crazy conversation that was happening in the public. And , you know , I , I do think that there's sort of pluses and minuses to the role that those influencers played. I mean , they really did help women , including my source , realize they were not alone , and that helped them connect with each other in some cases and come forward as a group to bring these , you know , accusations against Eric Swalwell. But it also , you know , it created this sense for a lot of people that this was politically motivated. And I know my source was concerned at times that people would dismiss her account as a political attack rather than something that really happened.
S1: And how did you. I don't know approach dissuading that because yes , that was one factor here. One of the timing , you know , the key points of timing here is there's a governor election. The primary is , you know , not far off , what , six weeks from now ? Something like that. Um , yeah.
S2: And I think that once they're comfortable with you , then you can work on all the other factors swirling around you. I mean , we did have to talk through a lot of things , though. She did not want to be named. And we had to discuss , well , what information can you share so that this account is detailed enough that it is convincing to people , but not detailed enough that its identifying to you. Are you prepared if someone names you , including Eric Swalwell himself ? Are you prepared that this might get dragged into court ? I mean , those are all questions that we had to talk through , and there's a lot of conversations that went on behind the scenes , you know , hours and hours of conversations that happen that aren't even about the reporting , but about , as I said , the consequences of coming forward and what the best case and worst case scenarios are.
S1: You know , you and your colleagues , you've published a number of stories , you know , in this over the past week. One of those came actually not from me about your boss at the Chronicle. Damian Bullock , um , news director there. He gives us sort of a play by play of how you and Sophia reported on the story. Can you talk more about that particular story , why your newsroom felt it was important to talk about the process there. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. I mean , I think there was many reasons why we felt it was important to share with readers more about how we came to this story. For one , in this day and age when there's so much distrust of the media , I think it's really powerful to be transparent about the work and the care that goes into publishing a story like this. This isn't something we came to lightly. And , you know , it proves that we are doing something that should be taken seriously and hopefully earning the trust of our readers in the process. I think , secondly to that , in this particular instance , there was so many accusations from Eric Swalwell and his supporters that the rumors of his misconduct were just a political attack , either from President Trump , who he's been a vocal critic of in turn , or from his rivals in the governor's race. And so we wanted to show this is how we came to this story through a Fundamental tenets of journalism , rather than an opposition research dump from a rival campaign. And this is why we believe that you should take this account seriously.
S1: And , you know , one interesting piece of of that story that Damian Boyle wrote. You know , he also made a case for , you know , not only just independent journalism , but also competition in journalism , because , as I think you've highlighted , you know , in conversations , you know , the Chronicle wasn't the only one chasing the story. Right. Right.
S2: Right. Absolutely not. I mean , there were many great journalists out there trying to track down what may have happened here. And , you know , we happened to get to it. But there was another story that came out from CNN just a few hours after ours that actually had allegations from three other women as well who , you know , shared experiences ranging from unsolicited , explicit photos all the way to additional allegations of assault. And so , you know , having a lot of reporters out there digging into this , I think was important because it turned out there's many , many women who had inappropriate experiences with Eric Swalwell or worse. And , you know , as part of that , we were feeling this urgency internally to try and get the story out there as quickly as we could , knowing other people were working on it. Um , I don't think we ever cut corners in making sure that we were verifying the information that we put out there. Um , but I do think , you know , it really pushed us to work hard to get this out there. And I think that's , you know , a message that sometimes you share with the source as well , that , you know , this is your chance to tell the story on your terms rather than having somebody else tell it for you.
S1: You know , in the last minute or so we have left here. I'm just wondering if you mentioned , you know , we started this conversation. You talked about it being a whirlwind and just just the amount of news that , you know , how hard you and your colleagues have all been working. But have you had any time at all to reflect on the impact this reporting has had ? Yeah.
S2: I mean , I will just say it's very gratifying with everything that we put in to this story all of the time and effort and , you know , the trust of our source , that the response has been so immediate and that within just a few days , Eric Swalwell felt so much pressure from the public that he actually resigned from office. I think that speaks to the power of coming forward with these allegations , even when it feels like you're going up against someone really powerful. And I hope that sends a message to other women in the future who who may be wondering whether or not to speak up about something that's happened to them , that it can make a difference.
S1: Alexi Kossoff is the Washington , D.C. , correspondent with the San Francisco Chronicle. You can read his and his colleagues important reporting at Chronicle. We're going to have some links to those stories on our website and show notes as well. Alexi , I just want to say thanks so much for taking the time to to reflect on this , and congratulations on all your great work.
S2: Thank you.
S1: You're listening to KPBS roundtable. We're back after the break. Welcome back. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Sports are one of the most common ways we have to bond with others and experience that feeling of community. Be it surfing , basketball , pickleball or bike racing. For many bike riders , San Diego's velodrome has become one such place to come together and connect through sports. But recent changes have led to trans women racers being excluded from some upcoming races there. Here with more is Andrew Bowen. He's the Metro reporter here at KPBS. Andrew.
S3: Hey , Andrew.
S1: Welcome back. So , you know , tell us about the San Diego Velodrome. I think I confess this to you. I wasn't really sure what a velodrome was before your story.
S3: Yeah , not a word that many people are familiar with. So it's a bike racing track in Balboa Park. It's part of the Morley Field sports complex. It is 333m for one lap. And , uh , one of actually fairly few velodrome in California. The curves are really highly banked. It's really interesting watching the races there and seeing how the racers are able to sort of pace themselves , try and maneuver and get ahead of the of their competitors.
S1: There's like a lot of strategy in it. Absolutely. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. And it's been there for the past 50 years.
S1: Well , so in your story you introduce us to Talia. Uh , she's a trans woman who races there at the velodrome.
S3: Um , She has had a lifelong relationship with biking. She described to me , you know , the freedom when she was a kid of being able to go anywhere on a bike. And she took her first class at the velodrome in the summer of 2023 and really loved it. She , you know , there were no cars there , obviously. So it's like a very safe and relaxing , as she described it , kind of place to ride your bike. Um , she really likes the strategy , the simplicity of the track bikes , also their single gear. So you know , when you're pedaling , you're moving and when you backpedal , that's how you brake. And that's how the the simplicity of the track bike interacts with the strategy of the racing and knowing when to pace yourself and everything. She came out as trans after having taken her first class there , and she was apprehensive about how she would be received or welcomed , but found that this community has really embraced her people. You know , she she's raced in other races with women and , you know , just felt like it was a really , a wonderful place to be and to find community and friends.
S1:
S3: So there's , you know , segments of the bike community that are very like punk rock , you know , anti-establishment , anti-capitalist. There are also people who take the sport very seriously who want to be , you know , part of this competitive circuit. And you know , that that I think is , is some of the source of the tension that the community is experiencing right now. Because , you know , some people see this as a place where they just want to hang out with their friends and build community , and others want it to be more of a competitive atmosphere.
S1:
S3: So many of the races are coed. Most of them are. There's A , A , B , C and D category. They also have women plus races , so those are open to cis women , trans women , non-binary people. It's not a super , you know , um , they don't gatekeeper. It's a it's a it's meant to be a very welcoming place and place , you know , a place where , uh , where women in the cycling community who are sometimes , you know , feel like they're not super welcome among the , the , like , macho , uh , you know , bike racers who take the sport really seriously. They have their own space there. And Talia has really been welcomed into that community as well.
S1: So , yeah , you're , you know , kind of talking about this sort of a balance between the competitiveness , you know , versus the more rec bike racers here. This year , they began to add these races sanctioned by USA cycling. I mean , I think that's more that kind of competitive piece. But break that down for us. And what that means for people like Talia.
S3: USA cycling is the national governing body for bike racing in the United States , and it for up until recently , allowed trans women to race in women's races if they submitted medical records and showed their hormone levels were comparable to cis women. Last September , they adopted a policy under pressure from the Trump administration that categorically excludes trans women from women's races. So in order to obtain a USA cycling license and race in the women's category , you have to self certify that you are. You were assigned female at birth and you know , if there is a question or dispute over someone's eligibility for the women's category , then USA cycling reserves the right to investigate that however they deem fit. And so for Talia , this means that the USA cycling sanctioned races at the velodrome are. She's not welcome or able to compete in the women's category.
S1: Got it. Um , you know , bans against trans women in sports that seem to become more common in recent years. Proponents of the bands argue. Trans women have advantages over cis women athletes.
S3: However , this , you know , there's this is a fairly new area of research , but there was recently a study that reviewed more than 50. It was a review of more than 50 scientific studies comparing trans people to cis people , men and women. And , you know , they found that after 1 to 3 years of a trans woman taking gender affirming hormone therapy , which blocks testosterone and increases estrogen , and , you know , there's it actually , trans women have no competitive advantage. There is no rather inherent advantage. So , you know , a cisgender woman who trains really hard , um , may perform better than a trans woman who is not super active and vice versa. But when you compare , when you control for those factors , there really isn't any distinguish , you know , any way to distinguish in terms of strength and endurance. And those are the markers that really matter when you're competing against each other.
S1: So another important piece of this story is , you know , involving Talia not being able to race in these these new events. You document here is that the velodrome is actually owned by the city of San Diego. So how does that play into these races ? And and people like Talia not being able to participate ? Yeah.
S3: Like many spaces in Balboa Park , the velodrome is operated by a nonprofit , not the city Parks and rec department. And so the nonprofit was the San Diego Velodrome Association was the one to begin hosting USA cycling races there. They have a permit to operate the velodrome , and that permit prohibits them from discriminating or allowing discrimination based on gender identity. And so what that that means essentially , is that the city , it faces this question of whether they are prepared to enforce that provision in the permit and tell the Velodrome Association these races discriminate against trans women , therefore you cannot host them. And if you do , we will revoke your permit. The Velodrome Association also is exposing itself to legal liability of a trans woman sought to race in the women's category at a USA cycling race and is denied. They can sue the velodrome association , and they can also sue the city of San Diego for the city's failure to enforce that permit.
S1: Like late last week and there's been some reaction and even some some new news. So so tell us what's the reactions.
S3: Been there about four , four days after my story posted , the Velodrome Association announced that the USA Cycling race , scheduled for April 21st , was not going to be sanctioned by USA cycling , so there are still five USA cycling races on the books or scheduled for this year. Unclear whether they will also remain sanctioned races or become unsanctioned. The Velodrome Association said that they are going to be hosting , you know , giving opportunities for people to talk about this. They I just learned less than an hour ago that they're going to be , um , doing a survey of members on their thoughts on this issue and are going to be looking for a time when folks can gather in person and discuss the issue themselves. There's been a lot of , you know , a range of reactions. Some of the folks in the bike racing community feel that the USA cycling policy and the ban on trans women in women's races is correct. Others feel that , you know they disagree with it personally , but also want the opportunity to participate in USA cycling races at the velodrome so that they can be part of this national competitive circuit. You know that you require , you know , you have to earn points in order to participate in regional races and things like that. And then there are people who see that this policy is immoral and wrong and exclusionary , and they just want all USA cycling races gone from the velodrome as long as that policy exists. So those discussions are ongoing and there hasn't really reached a consensus or a settlement yet.
S1: So , I mean , bringing it back to Talya , I mean , what what would she , for example , like to see happen at this point ? There does seem to be a lot of discussions here , and we have about a minute left. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. She told me she was conflicted. I actually we actually have a soundbite from her. Let's hear it.
S4: Learning that there are people who are pushing for it is kind of disheartening because like , you know , it made me realize that I felt disposable. I don't feel super supported. And I know that like my trans friends also don't feel super supported. But I don't know what a good outcome is because I don't want other people to suffer from me getting what I want. I just want to ride with my friends and be treated like a human.
S3: So yeah , Talia , I think , is also waiting to see how , um , you know , where the chips fall. And in the meantime , she's still racing with her friends for those races that are not USA cycling certified. And those are currently all of the races , at least in the current month. Um , and I actually saw a Facebook video or an Instagram video of some folks grilling outside the velodrome with a with a loudspeaker , you know , saying like , we support our trans racers. So there's a lot happening right now.
S1: It's more to come. Andrew Bowen is KPBS Metro reporter. Thanks so much , Andrew.
S3: Thank you Andrew.
S1: Coming up conversation on San Diego architecture and the world of invisible architects. Stay tuned. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Step into Petco Park , and there are a few things that stand out. Maybe it's the Tony Gwynn statue or just the vibrant green field there , but there's also one major landmark that's been there since the early 1900s , and that's the Western Metal Supply Company building. It now houses suites and a team store for Padre fans. But long before that , the warehouse had to , you know , existed and then had to be preserved. And that's actually the case for many of San Diego's most iconic landmarks. So what goes into preserving these pieces of San Diego history ? Amelia Rodriguez joins me now. She's a freelance journalist , former senior editor with San Diego Magazine. Amelia , welcome to roundtable.
S5: Thank you for having me.
S1: So , Emily , this is a really interesting entryway into San Diego architecture , which I'm kind of fascinated by because it's hard to kind of wrap your arms around it. But tell us how you first got interested in telling the story.
S5: Yeah , absolutely. So a few years ago , I did a really fun story on art restoration , you know , fine arts. And following that , it , um , became especially interesting to talk about historical architecture restoration because on top of the sort of intrinsic aesthetic and historical value that these buildings have. They also have to be functional. And so I became curious as to how. Historical preservation architects did the work they did and struck that balance.
S1: And that's always one interesting piece of architecture compared to other forms of art I think is just the functionality. Right ? It's got to have a door. You've got to be right. So I'm going to dig more into that. But before diving in here , I mean , how would you describe San Diego architecture ? What makes it unique from from other cities ? Yeah.
S5: When we think about San Diego architecture , what often comes to mind for people is that iconic , ornate Spanish Revival style that we see all over Balboa Park. But what I learned over the course of reporting this story is that San Diego is actually incredibly diverse. We have tons of pockets of fascinating styles. You know , you go through Golden Hill , you see the Victorians , you go into North Park , you see the craftsman , craftsman style , which is actually unique to California , was invented in Pasadena. So there's all kinds of neighborhoods that have a unique character and their own unique architecture. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , I feel like that you just go from neighborhood to neighborhood here and you'll get different pictures of of what San Diego architecture is , right ? Mid-Century modern , all sorts of stuff. All right. So let's talk about , you know , this historical preservation , what qualifies as a historic building.
S5: Typically these buildings are over 30 years old , but not always. There are things to take into account in terms of whether they're an iconic style or by an iconic architect. But one critical element is that they have to have about 90% or more of their original fabric. You know , you can have an incredible 19 tens building , but if it's been remodeled every ten years since then , you have kind of a Ship of Theseus situation where it's not a historical home anymore.
S1: So there's like a certain percentage of the original facade or whatever or piece of it to keep it to get that designation. I mean , what's the ultimate goal here with preservation ? Can you talk a little bit about some , you know , some examples of it , but what are we talking about here ? Yeah.
S5: Historical restoration architects have a difficult job because they have to balance preserving a historical appearance and whenever possible , preserving the historic fabric of the building while also bringing it up to modern safety and accessibility codes. One example is at the hotel Del. It recently completed.
S1: A multi-year what , several hundred million dollars renovation , right ? Yeah.
S5: Massive renovation. Renovation handled by Heritage Architecture and Planning , who I spoke to for my story , and one tiny example of just the creative problem solving that they have to think about is that one section of the Del had 29 inch tall handrails with big gaps in between , and that is completely not up to modern safety codes. You know , people can slip through. And so the question became , how do we preserve these handrails while also making them safe ? And the solution that the team came up with was to add a frameless glass rail behind those original handrails. So it's subtle , nearly invisible , and you still get to see those original pieces.
S1: I mean , that's a great example of just , yeah , like a creative solution to , to , you know , that problem and this , you know , you kind of open up this world of , you call them invisible architects , that people that work on this preservation side of architecture.
S5: David Marshall , principal architect at Heritage Architecture , he talked about how most architects dream of creating something new that's never been done before. That's not really Preservation architect's job. As Marshall put it , they're following in the footsteps of great designers , and they don't want to leave their fingerprints on everything that they work on.
S1: Another of the landmarks you write about is the California Tower in Balboa Park. I mean , that's pretty iconic , I think. You know , I'm sure there's tons of postcards with that. You know , they're hard to miss. Can you talk about some of the features that make it so iconic and what went into its preservation ? It's kind of it's with a museum of us , right ? It's right in that building. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. So in order to do that , I have to take you all the way back to 1915. This was really when San Diego , as we know it today , started to emerge , because we won the bid to host the 191516 Panama California Exposition. This was a huge deal. We beat out other California cities. And for that purpose , we built a lot of Spanish Revival buildings that at the time were temporary. Of course , now they're permanent , and the California Tower was one of them. It's an eight story structure that greeted visitors to the exposition. It's iconic for its tiled roof , for those ornate pilasters that are all over it. It can be seen from so many places in the city , but for a long time you couldn't go inside it. It was closed to the public in 1935 and just stayed shuttered for a long time. Fast forward to the 21st century. The attached Museum of Man wanted to open it up to the public by 2015 , and Heritage Heritage Architecture took on that project. So their goal was to make it accessible and make it earthquake safe. And in order to do that , they had to bring in steel braces , concrete walls , tension rods , and all of that had to be hidden within the tower itself in order to not have scaffolding sort of marring that historical appearance.
S1: Really so. Yeah. It's a really interesting balance there. They're writing here. Um , you talked a little bit about this describing the Hotel Del and some of the challenges they faced , but can you. I don't know , are there any other examples of what it took to preserve some of these old buildings ? And , I don't know , some of the creative solutions they may have looked to to do that.
S5: So Kathy Herrick of San Diego Historic Properties was another one of my sources. And she owns the Bow Hotel. It's an 1886 Gaslamp Quarter hotel , um , said to be a favorite haunt of Al Capone. So a little , uh , prohibition history there.
S1: And as someone from Chicago , that's interesting to me , but. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.
S5: I feel like he appears everywhere. Everywhere. Um , so there are , you know , beautiful redwood staircases in the bow. You can see them today , but some of those areas had deteriorated. And so in order to find new pieces that match the old. You can't just go to Home Depot. You had to talk to a specialist. And so the San Diego Historic Properties team talked to an expert who specializes in hand distressing redwood , and he was actually able to make new pieces that exactly matched the old. You'd never know.
S1: It's really interesting. Yeah. And you kind of highlight some of the craftspeople that they depend on and some of the challenges with them because as , as they're aging too. And what that could mean , there's also this economic piece. Um , yeah. Talk about that , because that's another factor obviously in in renovating and kind of meeting these preservation goals. Right ? Yeah.
S5: That's one major challenge that , um , restoration specialists face is you do need that craftsmanship that in many cases doesn't exist anymore or it's very , very expensive. And so often , um , you know , project leaders and architects , they really have to find the balance between spending the money that's required to spend in order to keep as much original as possible , and then sometimes making concessions. You know , in the story I mentioned that Kathy Herrick really , really wanted to restore those original windows at the bow , but it would have been $750,000 , which made the project not financially viable.
S1: Yeah , and it does bring up interesting questions about what we look on as , I don't know , historically accurate versus what we think it should. I don't know , like , you know , our perceptions of that that I don't know , nostalgia we have for our history. But I want to bring it to the policy here , because the city of San Diego has been looking to make some changes to historic preservation rules. Tell us about about those.
S5: One example of that is the Mills Act. We adopted that to allow for property tax reduction for historical homeowners , to encourage them to keep those historical homes the way that they are. But we are looking at some changes to policy. The Preservation and progress update to the Heritage Preservation program is currently being rolled out , so a package A was adopted in February of this year , and one element of that package was including additional grounds for appealing and reversing historical designation of buildings. My sources were concerned that that opened the door to demolition of structures that might have otherwise been preserved. Package B has not yet been adopted , but it does include changes to the designation review process , so representatives from the city say this will increase efficiency and free up resources for proactive surveying of homes that might be eligible. And a stated goal of that update is to allow for new construction , increased density and housing , which of course is always a huge topic of conversation. But one interesting thing that I learned was that , you know , Bruce Kunz , executive director of the Save Our Heritage organization , says that if we designated all eligible buildings in the city , it would be less than 1% of San Diego's existing housing stock. So the question remains how much sort of freeing up land that historical properties occupy will help increase our density. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And as you mentioned , I mean , the housing and the state of housing and the need for more housing is such a challenge for our region. So be interesting to follow that. But I want to zoom out a little bit more. You know , for years you've been covering arts and culture here in San Diego.
S5: Might say that the biggest misconception is that we don't have one , and I think that applies to architecture as well. You know , you think of major US cities for architecture. Uh , San Francisco with its painted ladies or New Orleans with its French Creole architecture. You don't typically think of San Diego , but I think in addition to beaches and tacos , we have amazing homes and buildings to explore.
S1: Yeah , that's really interesting. I mean , I don't know , just reflecting on this , I've been thinking about San Diego's architecture in new ways. And I'm just wondering , you know , why do you think we are so drawn to historic historical buildings ? Is it nostalgia ? What is it ? Continue , you know , to to bring up for us and add to our landscape.
S5: I mean , imagine a 23rd century Rome , where the Colosseum has been replaced by a glass and chrome skyscraper. We instinctively recoil at that idea because historical architecture , and is required in order for a city to feel distinctive and alive.
S1:
S5: I really loved getting the chance to look at that Western Metal Supply Co building. Um , it sort of looks like a Disneyland backdrop. It looks so out of place in this , you know , sort of other form of American nostalgia , which is the American ballpark , but it makes our ballpark unique and it creates just this delightful , like dual experience where you feel like you're in two times at once.
S1: You're right. I mean , it does. It kind of stands out. Yet it fits in to. And it fits in with the larger , you know , you see the the buildings in the background. So yeah it's interesting. So I don't know. This has been a really fascinating conversation. I've been speaking with Amelia Rodriguez. She's a freelance journalist , former senior editor with San Diego Magazine. And you can read her latest piece on San Diego's historical architecture at San Diego Magazine. We'll have a link to that in our show notes as well on our website. Amelia , thanks so much for joining us today.
S5: Thank you.
S1: That'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thanks so much for joining us. If you missed any of today's show , you can hear us again Sundays at 6 a.m. you can also find us wherever you listen to podcast. And if you have any thoughts on today's show or ideas for future one , you can always email us at roundtable at KPBS or leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables technical producer is Brandon Truffaut. The show was produced by Juliana Domingo. Brooke Ruth is roundtable senior producer. And I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Have a great weekend. Thanks again for listening.
