S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hindman on today's show. From balance in motherhood to humor through hard times , some of the featured authors at this year's KPBS Book Festival are centering wellness in their writing. We'll hear from them. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. So here's a question for all the moms out there. When's the last time you took a moment to just ground yourself? Motherhood is a beautiful , complicated , stressful thing , and there's a lot of pressure on us to get everything right. So it's completely normal to feel , you know , like your fuse is a little short. But what if you want to change that? Well , Cassidy Freitas is a San Diego based therapist and author. She's out with a new book called Mom Needs a moment How to Stop Your Reaction before it Starts and become a calmer , happier , more connected parent. Cassidy will be a featured author at this Saturday's KPBS book festival that's happening at the University of San Diego. And Cassidy joins me now to talk about her book. Welcome back to Midday Edition.
S2: Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be back.
S1: Glad to have you back. So , I mean , tell me , what made you want to write this book?
S2: Oh , well , how long do we got? We don't. Got a ton of time , but I will , I will. You know what? It was the muse for this book was my journey to becoming a mom. My oldest is now 15. So 15 years ago , I had my first and it rocked me. And I'm a therapist. I went in knowing some of the different challenges and around I know about postpartum mental health and the impact it could have on a couple. And it rocked us. And so I wrote this book because I , I knew that other moms were probably struggling with similar things. And if I didn't know what to do , or how to get support , or how to understand all the things that were coming up and triggering me. I first took some steps to heal myself , and then I wrote this book for the mom who , you know , was in my position back , back all the all those years back.
S1: When I tell you experience is where our true knowledge comes from sometimes , right? Um , you you write about this idea of specific spaces called margins. How do you define them? Yeah.
S2: Yeah. And so what I found when I first became a mom was I kept thinking to myself , gosh , if I could just get some space , I feel like then I could show up as a mom that I want to be. Then I could , my gosh , process how difficult and traumatic that birth experience was or how , you know , disconnected. I feel from my identity and my partner. I just need some space. And then I got support finally , eventually. And this became the muse for all the clinical work that I do today and the clients that I work with today. And time and time again , clients , moms were coming into my practice saying , if I could just get some space. And I was like , you know what? There's something really to this. And I think especially in our modern day lives , is digital era where we have so much information at our fingertips and we're constantly consuming more. And this intensive parenting era where there's a lot of pressure and expectation. I began to be really deeply curious about this piece of margins in our calendar , or that space between a trigger and our reaction , our reactivity. And so I became a little obsessed with this concept of margins in space. And I think it's actually the missing ingredient for so many of the parenting strategies and approaches that we are , you know , consuming so much of these days.
S1: And so what are some of your , your own , you know , specific margins?
S2: What does it look like? So , yeah. So first there's in the moment , right? So if , let's say my kid is really disappointed or there , you know , today was the first day of school and my kindergartner was really anxious to step into the classroom. And that brings up something for me. There's it triggers something in me around how are others observing this , you know , and I want to kind of just jump in and be like , you're fine , you're fine , you're fine. But she's not. She's anxious. That's a real , real human emotion. And so just in that moment , in the moment , that margin might look like I'm tricked. I feel a trigger. I feel it in my body. I'm going to take a beat. I'm going to take a breath. That allows me to just turn down the the dial , that stress response , get down to her level , name it. You're feeling really worried I get it , I gosh , I remember feeling that too. And then building that confidence within myself to hand her off to the teacher with confidence. Give her that look of I love you , I'm here and I get it. And I believe that you can do this right , but that I needed that margin , that beat in between the trigger and response so that I could respond in a more aligned way. And then outside the moment. Gosh , never underestimate like 15 minutes in your car before you pull into the driveway where you don't consume anything. Put your phone down. No podcast roll down the window just for our brain and our body to kind of , you know , regulate and reset and resource before this big transition into walking into our home , just anywhere in the calendar 15 minutes and really protecting that space as if it is just as important as , say , a doctor's appointment. Because I really think for our bodies , our brains , our relationships , it is , especially in our modern day lives.
S1: Being present , so important there. How do we inherit these , um , you know , perceptions of good moms and bad moms? You think , based on on how we grew up.
S2: Oh , my gosh , it's just in the air we breathe all of these discourses and messages , and I think that we really bring into motherhood these rule books. And I think a rule book is really the roots of it are in our own childhood experiences. We come into this world looking around us to decide , you know , who , who am I? What do I need to do to survive? What do I need to do to belong? To keep the adults around me close because I rely on them for survival. And we all have our own unique stories around this. And then we bring those rulebooks into our adulthood , into our own parenting. Unless , you know , we've done some work around it. But the thing is , is that these rule books are not written in pen. They've always been written in pencil. Right. We can always go back and take a look at some of the things that we have brought into our adulthood and to our parenting. We can redefine what we want our legacy to be. We can identify what we want to maintain from the legacies that we , you know , adopted that are in the rule book , and we can decide what ends with us. But there's a lot of messaging and discourse that we absorb as children and just in the world around us , indeed.
S1: You know , you also write about the division of labor that goes into running a family. Um , say , sometimes it's not always a fair split there. So what's your advice for navigating that?
S2: Yeah , it's definitely not. I mean , research will tell us time and time again that there is oftentimes an unfair division of labor , and there is an invisible mental load that primarily women are caring. And so I can't talk to moms about taking a moment. Mom needs a moment and all the reasons why that this is important for you and for your relationship with your children , without talking about the need for support for mom to take that moment. And so there's a whole chapter in the book about how do we activate our support system , how do we talk about this with our partners , with our family members , our loved ones , with our community , so that we can share the visible and invisible load of parenting and having a home and caring for a home. And there's also the an element of having to kind of let go of our grip on perfectionism and things needing to go a certain way , and that's a piece of it as well. So it's it's really a relational chapter to support moms in getting that support that , you know , a lot of us are caring alone and a lot of it. Not everybody is saying , hmm.
S1: Your book also includes a series of reflection questions to help readers really think about how these ideas apply to their own lives. Um , when writing these questions , did any of them challenge you or your own approach to parenting?
S2: Oh my gosh. In so many ways , I have to tell you , writing this book was one of the most vulnerable experiences of my life. I wrote this book for those those moms out there who might be able to connect with , you know , their little having a little inner perfectionist , uh , maybe someone who has a sort of need to achieve in order to feel safe , in order to belong. And so there's a lot of questions in there that might bring forth some of those , your own vulnerabilities. And it absolutely did for me. And my hope and with those with those questions , is that a book is not a replacement for therapy. Right. I'm a therapist. I work with clients every single day. And yes , this book is going to support folks and understanding the journey that I'll take my clients through. But there's going to be moments throughout any book where you find yourself feeling a little stuck or like , this is a little sticky , or I need to process this a little bit more for myself. And these questions are to hopefully help the reader have language for what to then bring to a therapist , say on a console call with , you know , I was reading this book and there was a question about , you know , how my parents , you know , navigated my own big emotions when I was a kid and it was hard for me to go there. And it feels kind of sticky , and I think I want some help processing that. So that was my ultimate hope with those questions , and it absolutely was a reflection for me of my own vulnerabilities and writing this book. And in doing this work.
S1: Yeah , one of those reflection questions invites people to imagine their empty nest era and really think about what parts of themselves they'd still like to feel connected to. I mean , what can they gain from that exercise?
S2: I really think I love this question , because I think that we spend so much time looking at the rearview mirror of like , oh , all these things that I messed up on or the past or we're so stuck in the present and all the current struggles. But , you know , anxiety is a part of us that will kind of future forecasts , and it's not a bad part. Sometimes it takes on an extreme role , but I do think that this part of us can also serve as a tool to imagine our granny grandma , Meemaw era. Right? Our elder era , where we've lived through all the experiences and we can reflect back on what we've learned and and where we wish we really could have been present. And I think that there's actually a lot of wisdom and love and self-compassion that we can access when we imagine ourselves at that point in the sunset era of our lives , when we imagine our legacy that we're living actually right here , right now. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. It's something else I wanted to ask because , you know , kids absorb so many messages. You know , they absorb so much without us even realizing it sometimes. How does the way you choose to care for yourself , really model healthy behavior for your kids.
S2: This is such a great question , and to connect it to this idea of going to our elder era and imagining this future self. I want my kids when one day they are possibly potentially taking care of me , right? And maybe I might not have the ability to even communicate to them my words or my thoughts. Right? I want them to know without a question that I would want them in that caretaking era for them , that I would want them to protect margins for themselves and care for themselves. And I want them to know that without a doubt , even if I can't communicate it because they saw me do it too. I want them to say , I know that mom would want me to hire , support or or have someone else come in and help me with this so that I can take care of myself so that I can honor the different parts of me right now , and my own identity and my own needs , and they would not even question that because they saw me do it too , in that , that season of motherhood.
S1: That's such good advice there. Um , you know , when moms are feeling overwhelmed , frustrated and burnt out , what's the one piece of advice you'd suggest they turn to? Mhm.
S2: Mhm. Okay. So I guess a question I would say is to ask yourself if somebody came to you , a mom friend came to you and she texted you or sent you a voice note , and she shared that she was having some of these similar struggles. How would you respond to her? We are so much more self-critical and we have it's so much harder to access compassion. We feel so much more guilt or shame about our own feelings or needs , or like we're too much or not enough. And I think that when we kind of frame it as , what would you say to this person that you love this , this dear friend? And how can we begin to translate that back to ourselves? So how can we access those same words for ourselves? How? And it might look like honoring hey , you have needs. You deserve space. Where can we protect? Gosh , just 15 minutes in the next 24 hours. Like. And then , yeah , we wanted to expand those 15 minutes where we can , but it can really start there. It can really start there.
S1: Oh , well , it's been such a pleasure speaking with you today. I've been speaking with Cassidy Freitas. She's a San Diego based therapist and author. Her latest book is called Mom Needs a moment How to Stop Your Reaction before it Starts and become a calmer , happier , more connected parent. She'll be a featured author at the KPBS San Diego Book Festival this Saturday. Details are on our website at KPBS. Cassidy , thank you so much.
S2: Thank you so much for having me.
S1: Up next , our next featured Arthur talks about finding the humor in tough situations. KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. You know , the world's a funny place. There's a humor all around you if you just look for it. From the absurdity of office politics to the kids bickering next to you in the grocery store. Even the painfully mundane can really be hilarious. But welcome. But , you know , sort of welcoming more laughs into your life is really no funny business. There's a whole science behind it. Chris Duffy is a comedian and host of the podcast How to Be a Better human. His latest book is called Humor Me How Laughing More Can Make You Present creative , connected , and Happy. Chris will be featured at this weekend's KPBS San Diego Book Festival on Saturday. He joins me now to talk about his book and the power of a good laugh. Chris. Welcome.
S3: Thanks so much for having me , Jade. It's a pleasure to be here.
S1: Glad to have you on. So listen to this , this book. It begins with an 11 year old named Gary. You call him the funniest person you've ever met? Why?
S3: Well , I was a fifth grade teacher at the time , and Gary was one of my students , and , um , he was not a particularly well-behaved student , but he was the one that is the funniest person that I've ever met in my entire life. Because , um , at one point , Gary got a job for himself as the food critic for the school newspaper , reviewing cafeteria food. And so he would have these columns in the school newspaper where he would review , like cafeteria pizza at the public school. And he would say this dish , originally from Italy , looks like cardboard when it is served. And , uh , just the way that he was able to reframe these really basic , you know , mundane pieces of the , the , the school experience , they made me laugh so much and they changed every day. I walked into the cafeteria and I would think , like , what's Gary gonna say about this one? Oh , no , it's a hot dog day that's gonna get a a real pan or something like that.
S1: That's genius. Really it is.
S3: Oh it's incredible. Yeah. He's a true genius.
S1: You know , when you're very clear that this book is not a manual for stand up comedy. So if it isn't that , what is the book?
S3: Well , I think that a lot of times when people think about having a sense of humor , a good sense of humor , they have this to me , a misconception , which is that it's about telling jokes and making other people laugh and being the center of attention. But to me , a great sense of humor means that you walk through the world and you see the funny , the strange , the bizarre and the delightful , and you appreciate them. You're able to laugh at yourself And the absurdity in the world. So it doesn't necessarily mean you ever share that publicly or even with anyone else , but it's having that ability to see and notice and laugh to yourself about things rather than taking everything so seriously. And I think we need a lot more people who can laugh at themselves these days. I think that's a real shortage in the world right now.
S1: Yeah , I couldn't agree more. Listen , you really urge people , with that in mind to to take the social risks , to invite more humor into their lives. So. So what might that look like?
S3: Well , you know , the most basic version of this is like when you're having a conversation with someone you don't know all that well. Right. Really good friends. We tend to have deep belly laughs with them all the time because we know each other so well , but someone you don't know as well , you probably are having a really predictable conversation. Hey , how are you? Good. How are you? Pretty crazy. Whether it's pretty hot or it's pretty cold or it's a windy , you know , you just talk about these things that everyone knows what the next sentence is going to be. And so taking a social risk means putting it. Putting yourself on a little bit more of an unpredictable path , not necessarily knowing what the other person is going to say. So it could be something as simple as when you are talking to a stranger , asking them like , you know , I saw a giant squirrel the other day. Have you ever seen a really fat squirrel and just seeing what they respond to that it's not a giant risk , but it's certainly less predictable than like pretty hot today. And you never know where that conversation will lead. Right.
S1: Right. No you don't. Well , okay , so you have quite the resume. Uh.
S3: That's not all. That's the follow up to that squirrel story , right?
S1: It is the follow. Listen. All right , so , uh , comedian. Okay. Podcast host. Author. Yes.
S3: Yes.
S1: And for a brief moment , CEO of LinkedIn.
S3: That's right. Uh , on LinkedIn , I was the CEO of LinkedIn. Um , as a person who , you know , has been a comedian and a teacher and a writer , I never had a real , like , actual use for LinkedIn. It's not those are not jobs that you get by , like networking on a business site. And so I was always fascinated by LinkedIn , and I decided that I would , um , see what it was all about. And the first thing that struck me was that you put your job on there and they don't check. Like if you say you work at Nike , they don't email Nike to make sure you work there. And that struck me as bizarre and kind of insane. So I wanted to see , like , can you really say you work anywhere? So I made my job , uh , CEO of LinkedIn , and I clicked save just to see if they would let me do it. And I thought , surely it'll say no. But not only did it let me do it , it sent an email to everyone in my contacts saying Congratulate Chris on his new job. He's now the CEO of LinkedIn , which is a funnier joke than anything I've ever written in my entire career. Genius.
S1: Genius. Genius there.
S3: Thank you.
S1: Yes , but to circle back Fat Squirrel was not on your list of jobs.
S3: No , but now he. I'm sure that giant squirrel would be willing to endorse me on LinkedIn. Okay , that's what I'm really looking for. Okay , most of my endorsements come from animals or non-humans.
S1: All right. Listen. Well , um , sometimes looking inward , as you say , is really the key to a good laugh. But how can we laugh at ourselves in a playful way that's not too self-deprecating?
S3: Yeah , I think this is a line that , uh , it's an important one , right? You don't want to bully yourself , or sometimes people do this thing where they make other people laugh by pointing out things that they are truly insecure about. And I think that that is not always healthy. So you don't want to do that. But what I think you can do is notice the things that are you , that are very you and laugh at the things that are your your predictable things. So one way you can do it is I sometimes recommend that people like Imagine That Your Life is a nature documentary being narrated by David Attenborough , right? Like , if David Attenborough saw me this morning , he'd be like the wild. Chris reaches for yet another one of his favorite types of nourishment a Trader Joe's kimbap. He's eaten 17 of these packages in the last 14 days , amount that surely is not good for his health , you know. And it just it takes the things that I. That I do without thinking , and it turns them into something that I can laugh at and recognize my own foibles. And if you aren't sure what your things are. Find a family member. Find a close friend , someone who knows you really well. I guarantee you they know the things about you and will be willing to point them out and laugh about them with you.
S1: They do. My husband reminds me every morning , there's always something I love it. It's always a good relationship , right?
S3: Oh for sure. My wife is constantly pointing out how I. I often live in a world where things are either 0 or 10 , where it's very rare that I acknowledge that there's nuance. I'll be like , this is the worst day ever , or this is the best day. And she'll be like , you know , let's just be real. This piece of pizza was actually a five out of ten. It doesn't have to be a zero or a ten.
S1: There's no in between there , right? No.
S3: No. For me , I'm like , this is the greatest pizza in the world. Everyone has to know or oh my gosh , we're gonna die. It's the worst pizza I've ever had.
S1: I'm there. I'm right there with you. What is it? In this book , you also take us back to the time of court Gestures. Gestures , rather to really prove that humor has always been connected to social change. So tell me about the power of punching up then and now.
S3: Yeah , well , I think one of the things that you'll notice if you pay close attention is often when people laugh , they say something like , that's so true , or oh yes , absolutely , 100%. And the reason I bring that up is because often we laugh at things that are just below our conscious awareness , but then as soon as they they are brought to our awareness , we laugh at them. That's why there's this , the famous story of right , the Emperor who had no clothes. People are not willing to acknowledge that the clothes are not there. They don't want to say , this guy's just naked. And then it takes someone to make a joke and point out , like , hey , we all see this , right? Those aren't clothes. And then we laugh and we realize the thing that we hadn't been willing to acknowledge before. And , you know , historically , court jesters played a really important role because they acknowledged the complaints and the issues in society , and they let the rulers seem as though they were willing to receive feedback , and it was from this very specific joking form of feedback. And I think today you see that with the increased role of comedy in society , people are very much looking for people who will call out the way things are , who aren't , you know , trying to seem more impressive or , um , self-aggrandizing , but instead people who are willing to just say , like , hey , we're all looking around and seeing this , right? And I think you can actually see that on both sides of the political spectrum , that that is a form of truth telling that people are very responsive today because we are hungry for truth to be confirmed to us.
S1: You know , I mean , in that way , there's a connection between comedy and journalism. I would say , uh , in so many ways. But , you know , I'm curious to know , like , what did you learn about the connection between humor and our physical health? Yeah.
S3: Yeah. Well , first of all , with comedy and journalism , I interviewed the comedian Roy Wood Jr , who I think is one of the greatest standups working today. We're friends , you know. I did not know our friend.
S1: Okay , well , no , we went incredible.
S3: So you know this then like and he he started in journalism and he told me that he thinks that every joke is essentially a journalistic reporting. And you just start reporting on things that would never make it onto the nightly news , but that's still reporting. Um , physical health. Well , I'll tell you this about one of the things that people say. And when people heard I was writing a book about humor , a lot of people were like , laughter is the best medicine. And from the start , I was skeptical of that because I think we all know that penicillin is a lot better medicine than laughter. And there's many other forms of medicine that are better than laughter. Like if you went in for a in your appendix burst and the doctor said , I'm not going to do a surgery , but I am going to tell you some great jokes. You would say , I would like a different doctor , please. No thank you. Um , so I do not think that laughter is the best form of medicine , but I do think that it can play a really important role in your health. And when I interviewed emergency room doctors and a nurse who runs a nursing home in Hong Kong who works with the elderly , one thing that they kind of all the medical professionals I spoke with , talked about is that humor and laughter can reframe our experience of what's happening to us , and that in medicine , that's actually a very important thing. Even if I can't solve your pain or your medical issue. Changing how you feel about it , changing your ability to tolerate the discomfort , or to feel like you have joy and happiness in your life , that's a really significant clinical outcome. And humor can really play a very important role in that.
S1: Yeah , it helps us cope with so many things. I mean , we've all heard the phrase , you know , laugh to keep from crying. Um , when can humor really be a valuable tool to cope with tragedy , you think?
S3: I think that humor can kind of always be a really valuable tool. It just as long as you are open and want it to be. But I think one of the things , especially in tragedy is , um , we can really laugh with other people who get it. Where you and I , we understand each other and we have been in the same place. So if you are experiencing a tragedy , right , if you have , um , lost a parent and someone makes a joke to you about it and they haven't experienced that , it's going to come off as completely tone deaf and offensive. But if it's someone who has gotten it and been there , and you are connecting on the absurdity of the situation or something , that maybe it's even like the way that other people talk to you about it and they make a joke about like , yeah , did you get a bunch of cards that said , like , you'll get over it soon , basically. And then you laugh about that. It can make you feel less alone in the moment. And I think often in tragedies and in grief , we feel really isolated. And one of the beautiful , incredible parts of laughing with someone is you are so connected. It's a moment where when you're laughing really hard with someone else , you know , they're not like half on their phone and half paying attention to you. You're really 100% in the same place. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. You're also the host of the podcast How to Be a Better Human , where you interview all kinds of experts. How has writing this book changed your approach to those interviews? Hmm.
S3: Hmm. Um , well , you know , when I got hired to host the show called How to Be a Better Human , I was like , I hope that you understand that. I don't know the answer to that question. You might have the wrong Chris Duffy , but , um , instead , it has very much not been me telling my version of that , but asking people , what do you do? How do you improve yourself? How do you think about being a human in the world that we live in? And I think the way that it has changed , um , my approach to interviews and to talking with people is to be willing to laugh at myself and acknowledge my own ignorance or absurdity or ridiculousness , to say a lot of times like , hey , by the way , you are a nuclear physicist , and I know I should know this because I took a class in high school , but can you just remind me what physics is? Because I'm still a little hazy on that. And being willing to laugh at myself , I think , often makes people feel more comfortable connecting in a real way , rather than having to both pretend that I know what I'm talking about when I actually don't.
S1: Yeah , it's like just being authentic , right? Totally.
S3: Totally. I mean , this is the the biggest thing that I learned from writing this book by far , is all of the science that shows how much we prefer another person to be real and flawed and messy. I think a lot of us have this idea that we need to be perfect , or as impressive as possible for other people to like us or want to spend time with us. But then when you think about these perfect people that you run into , the person who is like , I make $1 million a year and I have a six pack and my kids are going to Harvard. And also I'm working at the soup kitchen today. Like though , that person is either someone you absolutely hate or at the very least you are intimidated by. Whereas the person who has like a stain on their shirt and looks a little frazzled but says like , hey , I would love to help you out and like , let's connect. But also is , can you tell me , are my pants on backwards right now? Like , that person is such an easier person to talk to. And it's not to say you have to be an extreme version of that , but there's so much research that shows that we like people who are imperfect , and that they would like us more if we authentically revealed our imperfections to them as well. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Hey , towards the end of the book , you warn readers to be careful of bad jokes and bullying and you know , the dark side. So tell me what? What is the dark side?
S3: Well , if you think about humor as just getting people to laugh , you can make people laugh at terrible things. And , you know , if you think about the classic bully , right? If you just picture a bully in your head right now , one of the things you might be picturing is a bunch of kids in a schoolyard pointing and laughing at someone. Right. So it's not like laughter is in and of itself , always a good thing. And I think we have to be careful about where that laughter is coming from. To me , good humor is connecting us to other people is making it so that our imperfections are relatable and not something that we are dwelling on , and it is having fun. I think the bad humor is where it is excluding people , where it is bullying , where it is trying to make yourself the center of attention at other people's expense. And I think , again , I think one of the biggest misconceptions people have is that you have to be the one who is on the platform making people laugh. And I love stand up comedy. I am a stand up comedian. It's not like that's necessarily bad , but to think that that's the only way that you can have a sense of humor , I think , leads a lot of people who are not skilled at standup comedy to then kind of dominate , take over conversation and say things that are offensive or cruel.
S1: All right. Well , we look forward to seeing you at the book festival. I've been speaking with Chris Duffy. He's a comedian and host of the podcast How to Be a Better Human. He's also the author of Humor Me How Laughing More Can Make You Present creative , connected , and Happy. Chris will be a featured author at The Saturdays KPBS San Diego Book Festival. Again , it is free and open to the public. Details can be found on our website , pbs.org. Chris , it's been a pleasure. Thanks again.
S3: Thanks so much for having me. Please come to the festival and tell me all the ways you disagree with the things I said in this interview.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
