S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition on today's show. Expanding the framework of Western mental health care. Plus , we'll tell you what's in the latest point in time count , then a book about digital devices and your health. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. Hear about an organization raising Vietnamese mental health awareness , then how nonprofits are responding to the latest data on homelessness in our area. Then NPR's Manush Zamora is telling us about her new book on the digital age and well-being. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Getting.
S2: Getting.
S1: Results from the 2026 homeless point in time counter in , and they show a modest drop in homeless numbers in San Diego County. The annual one night count of people experiencing homelessness showed a 1% drop in the overall numbers , but an 11% decrease in street homelessness. We wanted to talk more about what these numbers can tell us , and today I'm joined by the leaders of two nonprofits on the frontlines of homelessness in San Diego County. Melinda Faust is the CEO of the local nonprofit serving seniors. Melinda , welcome.
S3: Thanks for having me.
S1: Glad to have you here. Also , Greg Angel is with us. He is the CEO of Interfaith Services , which serves people experiencing homelessness in San Diego's North County. Greg , welcome back to the show.
S4: Thank you. Jed.
S1: So what stands out to you about this year's point in time count ? Melinda , I'll start with you. Sure.
S3: Sure. So while we were heartened to see a minor decrease in overall homelessness , one major concern is the continued increase in older adults 55 and above who are unsheltered. We saw a 4% increase this year , which is a total of one third of the unsheltered population. Mhm.
S1: Mhm.
S4: We focus our work in north San Diego County. As you mentioned in Escondido we saw a 12% decrease in unsheltered homelessness. And that's a direct reflection of work that the city of Escondido , the County of San Diego and Interfaith Community Services have done together. This last year , we opened an expanded detox program to provide a place for people to go who were struggling with substance use and mental health conditions , and we helped more than 600 people get off the streets. It's it's it's partnerships like that that create reductions in street homelessness. So I really think about the importance of those those local partnerships. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. You know , Melinda , just quickly , can you remind us what the point in time count is and what we learn from it ? Yeah.
S3: So every year , communities across the country go out at 4 a.m.. And this is really to gain an understanding of how many individuals are either unsheltered , so sleeping on the streets in their cars or in parks , and then also counting the number of individuals who are in shelters. You know , I think our biggest takeaway , as we've continued to see the number of unsheltered older adults grow , what we're seeing is more and more are experiencing this for the first time. And truly , this is an economic issue. Many folks are just seeing increased rents on a fixed incomes , and they're falling into homelessness , a situation they never expected to be in before. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. And you know , Greg , the the point in time count.
S4: I mean , it relies upon how many people can we find on our streets at one point in time , early in the morning on a Friday in January. So we found about 10,000 people this year. About half were in shelters , half were on the streets. We have a much more accurate , robust database that providers like serving seniors and interfaith community services. We all together work on , and that actually paints a more a bigger picture of about 50,000 people in our San Diego County experiencing homelessness and accessing a program like we offer at organizations to try to overcome that. So the issue is much larger , and it impacts many more people and speaks to the importance of creating pathways for people both out of homelessness. And like Melinda said , this is an economic issue. So we need to do just as much work to prevent people from losing their housing in the first place so that they don't ever have to experience homelessness.
S1: And Melinda , I want to talk more about that , preventing people from from losing their homes. I mean , what's the most common reason you find that seniors are becoming homeless ? You mentioned raising rents , those high prices.
S3: So this could be the loss of a spouse , the loss of a job or a health issue. And before seniors know it , their bills are racking up or they don't have that additional income and that is causing them to lose their housing. But to touch on prevention , we know this is a solution that works here in San Diego. We have what are called shallow rental subsidy programs , and that is when , say , 3 to $500 a month of rental assistance is paid directly to the landlord , and that frees up that additional income. So seniors can use that towards food , medication , transportation. And we are really heartened that not only the city and the county of San Diego have launched these programs , but at serving seniors , we've been fortunate to run our own. And the numbers are staggering. We're seeing anywhere between a 96 to 100% success rate with keeping people housed with just this modest investment every month. Wow.
S1: Wow. And , Greg , I mean , you mentioned how important collaboration is between organizations. Um , you know , with the housing assistance program that Melinda mentioned , I mean , and with this decline in the numbers here , just by and large , what does that tell us about what's working to reduce homelessness , specifically on your from where you said.
S4: Homelessness is , is both the most complicated issue and the simplest issue facing. It's complicated in that it reflects all the challenges we have in our community. But it's also simple in that we know what fixes it. Housing and services in Oceanside. There's a large encampment that borders the city of Oceanside and Carlsbad , and we worked with those cities to secure a State of California encampment grant a couple of years ago. Um , we then went in and met with everybody in the encampment , and within a couple of months , more than 90% of the people in the first part of that encampment were not just out of the encampment. They were in housing of their own , not a shelter in housing of their own. So it's we see the proof. There's examples of this throughout the country , and we see them locally here as well , that housing and services can help overcome homelessness.
S1: And , you know , there's there's also , you know , the whole regional piece here because as we've we've mentioned , homelessness numbers went down in certain cities versus others in the county. You mentioned Escondido had some positive results. Tell us about what changed in other cities in North County ? Yeah.
S4: So in North County , we have a very we have a severe shortage of shelter beds and places for people to go. Um , there's only a couple hundred shelter beds in all of North County. And the count itself , which we mentioned is an undercount , earlier identified a couple thousand people experiencing homelessness. So we need more places for people to go. Um , I mentioned that in Escondido we were able to create more drug and alcohol treatment beds. That's fantastic for those who need them. We're working right now with the city to create the city of Escondido , to create additional general shelter beds , because those are really lacking here. Um , other cities in North County have made some strides. There's some additional beds coming online in Oceanside. Um , and looking at some some new resources in Vista. Those all help have been a big part of helping reduce the amount of unsheltered that we see in our , in our larger community.
S1: And , Melinda , you mentioned encampments , and that's something I wanted to ask about. In the last few years , we've seen more enforcement and dismantling of encampments throughout the county.
S3: We , of course , do not want anyone to be sleeping in a tent , but it's critical that if we are going to be breaking up these encampments , that we have a suitable place for folks to move into. And so I know the city and county at large have been really having robust efforts to expand what's in place. But one thing I would like to point out from the point in time count is the number of sheltered seniors actually decreased. And so this points to a need for us to invest more within our shelter system and ensure that there are shelters that are suitable for older adults. Many may be frail , many may be on medications or using medical devices. So we need to look at things like adding additional space. Having more staff on site who are trained , working with older adults and really being able to attend to those specific needs of the seniors we serve. And , you know , in speaking with so many wonderful shelter providers and case managers , I know that there is a real desire from the frontline staff to have additional resources so we can meet the holistic needs of older adults within the shelter system. Right.
S1: Right. I mean , the shelters really need to be built with seniors in mind. When you mention it like that. They have to be accessible in so many ways.
S3: Yes , yes. And looking at things like cognitive health , looking at things like needing assistance with simple caregiving , if someone is having trouble with bathing or feeding or ambulatory. And so I think there's a lot of opportunities that we can implement within the shelter system. So it is more of a welcoming and suitable situation for older adults.
S1:
S4: And so as we look at how to say that somebody can't be one place , the question is where are they going to go ? And so we need more places , short term options like shelters. We also operate what's called recuperative care. And so it's a place for people who have health conditions and lack housing. And we offer light touch medical care. And and it's a really effective model because it's financially sustainable. We utilize health care revenues , a very little local government or taxpayer dollars for those programs. So we need places for people to go. And I think it's a good time to also highlight that ultimately , none of these short term options are the ultimate place that people should be. They need a home of their own. So we really need to continue to support , um , affordable housing. And that always needs local approval. And so there's opportunities for everyone here to support and and welcome the creation of more affordable housing in their communities. And that'll have long term positive effects for everybody , especially those experiencing homelessness. Hmm.
S1: Hmm.
S4: And so , um , as , as good as it is to see the progress that has been made , um , we are likely facing elimination of existing , uh , permanent supportive housing units. We're facing elimination and reduction in funding that creates and supports some of these short term options , including the the amazing homeless outreach workers who go out every single day in our communities and build amazing relationships with our neighbors and work so hard to help them get off the streets. The resources for all of them are unfortunately facing reductions again at at all these levels federal , state and county. And so we really need to work closely with our local cities. We also really need the local community to be a part of the solution. And that can take a number of shapes. It can be volunteering , it can be supporting. It can also just be , um , electing leaders who who value these safety net services and see the positive humanitarian impact they have and the greater impact they have throughout our larger community. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. And just to add to that , you know , one thing that we're seeing , particularly with the county , is the launch and expansion of what's called public private partnerships. So we have seen our philanthropic community step up , and now they are matching funds with the county. And so we're able to leverage additional dollars where we're seeing those cuts both at the state , local and federal level. And really , I think we need to expand it beyond what we're doing at the county. I think there's opportunity for the state of California to look at partnering with foundations , building those public private partnerships , and leveraging those additional dollars so we can implement these prevention programs , more housing programs , more of those services that Greg mentioned at the state level.
S1: And , of course , so a lot of the solutions lie in collaboration between the county , the state and the federal government.
S3: Individuals experiencing homelessness do not want to be homeless. It really is often an economic issue. These are folks who are grandparents , neighbors , friends who have worked their whole lives and didn't anticipate being in this situation. Get involved. As Greg mentioned. Volunteer at a local nonprofit near you. And also when there is an opportunity to build affordable housing , we do need support from the neighborhood to welcome these affordable housing communities into their neighborhoods.
S1: Makes good sense , Greg. I'll let you have the final word here.
S4: We we host a podcast called Homeless in San Diego , and I've interviewed hundreds of individuals who have overcome homelessness. And we always have a call to action. What can people do ? And every single person has shared the most simple thing that all of us have the power to do , and that's to treat people with dignity and respect. Homelessness is lonely , homelessness is scary. And we all , those of us who are fortunate enough to be housed , have the ability to connect with people personally , to look them in the eye , to ask them how they're doing , and to treat them like the human being that they are. And that goes a long way. Um , and then I would echo what Melinda shared , about getting involved in supporting at Interfaith Community Services. We launched a people for people fund. This last year. It's helped hundreds of people prevent from losing their housing and similarly overcome homelessness. And there's so many good organizations doing that. So get involved. Treat people with dignity and respect , and we can help people get through this one person at a time.
S1: And of course , we'll have links to the resources you mentioned on our website , KPBS. I've been speaking with serving senior CEO Melinda Faust , along with Greg Angel. He is the CEO of Interfaith Services. Melinda , Greg , thank you so very much.
S3: Thank you.
S4: Thank you. Jade.
S1: Still to come. How a Vietnamese organization is expanding the framework of Western mental health care. KPBS Midday Edition returns after the break. Welcome back to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. Just over 51 years ago , the fall of Saigon forced millions of Vietnamese refugees away from their homes , lives and families. Deep pain and trauma still felt across the Vietnamese diaspora today. Research shows that Vietnamese populations have some of the highest risks of developing post-traumatic stress disorder , or PTSD. But processing that grief and trauma isn't something you can do alone. It starts with culturally competent mental health resources. My next two guests run a mental health initiative through VA. The Vietnamese American Youth Alliance. Tre loo is chair of their Community Health committee. And Tre. When is a licensed marriage and family therapist and counseling faculty at San Diego State University. He's also a curriculum coordinator for the initiative we're talking about today. Welcome to you both.
S5: Thank you so much , Jade. It's a pleasure to be here again.
S6: Thank you. Jay.
S1: Yeah , glad to hear. Glad to have you both here in studio. Um , before we dive into our conversation here , just a quick note for listeners. This conversation may include some serious topics related to mental health. Uh , so this community health initiative is part of the Vietnamese-American Youth Alliance or Valle or Vala , I should say. Why is mental health work a priority for you , Mr. Liu ? I mean , what draws you to this work ? Tell me a bit about yourself here.
S5: Oh , I've got a personal story around that. And the short answer is , I want to make sure that the youth have access to the resources that I didn't. And my story is I do have ADHD , and I was diagnosed pretty late. I started out in life just kind of struggling low GPA and undergraduate actually , and then law school. It turned my life around because I got a diagnosis that allowed me to get the help that I need , and I remember walking with my parents and getting ready to tell them and reveal , hey , look , this is why my life's turned around. And when I finally told them , they looked at me and said , oh , we know. And I was like , what do you mean , you know ? And my dad revealed to me that I had got diagnosed as a kid , but my mom did not want to get care. They didn't want to put me on meds because it wasn't real. It wasn't a thing that was appropriate. And I want to make sure that kids and youth do not go through what I had to go through , because life would have been so much different if I had gotten the treatment much earlier. Now I am who I am today. But you know , I always wonder what if ? Hmm.
S1:
S6: I actually have several family member who experience mental health , depression , anxiety and substance abuse. And , uh , and that's really drive me to become a licensed family therapist and ultimately becoming a counseling faculty here at San Diego State , because I also remember going to therapy for the first time when I was in college at UCSD , and it was really scary. Um , but then our , you know , family , we don't talk about mental health and we don't talk about traumas or depression or things that is really impacting us. So I really and being a bilingual speaker at the time , when I applied to grad school , actually , I went here for grad school too. So , uh , naturally , I come back here to , to help the student. But I do remember that there's just so many barriers to care. Just like a military story , just family. Don't speaking up or know enough about mental health. And they tend to avoid seeking help for their children because of the negative stigma about , you know , you being crazy and so forth.
S1:
S6: Um , part of my dissertation research for my PhD is on culturally competent care and mental health , and I explore many different cultural values that are different than the way we conceptualize mental health here. Um , in the in the West , in the US , and of course , many Western countries , because in grad school we learn a lot of the conception of mental health data in the Western lens. And , um , you know , people from Asia or other countries , they don't see it the same way. And likewise , what we learn in grad school and how we do therapy doesn't always translate to the native language of people who are not from here. Hmm.
S1: Hmm.
S5: My job is to make sure that whatever we do , we package it in a way that's digestible for both the youth and the community at large. And Via's job is to know how to interact with our kids and know what the kids are looking for and know how they , you know , have fun. Because if you can't present this in a way that is fun for them , they're not going to pay attention. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Um , you know , Mr. Wynne , as as we mentioned at the beginning , we just passed the fall of Saigon 51st anniversary. And of course there's still a lot of unresolved trauma for the generation that lived through that. How does the younger generation approach that subject with their parents and grandparents ? Yes.
S6: Part of the initiative that we're doing , we actually have scholarships. and we had three recipients that received the scholarship. And we have about 20 something submissions. And we actually listened to this. The youth who how do they conceptualize trauma and so forth. And there's actually a big interest among the students and the youth. They want to learn more. But the challenge is that a lot of their family member or , you know , maybe their aunt and uncle , even their own parent who went through the war , they don't talk about it enough. So because of the stigma and of course , mental health , um , challenges , people don't seek help and they don't talk about it enough. So I think the disconnection is not just the language , but the , uh , the perspective on mental health and what is okay to talk about and what is not. So I still see a big challenge regarding just help seeking , talking about trauma , talking about our problem in our community in general.
S1:
S5: If one kid is interested and says , hey , look , let's do this , the rest of them follow. And so we wanted to develop youth leaders. I do want to shout out the three scholarship recipients that we did get Sophie Lee , Dorothy Nguyen , Phong Tran , Sophie's from Down North High School , Dorothy's from San Diego State University here and following us from San Diego Community College. And we want to empower them , connect them with these mental health professionals so that they can present what is important to them to other youth , because they will be able to speak the language in a way that makes sense. And doing that is exactly how we've been able to , you know , engage in their youth and their families because hearing it from a third party , you know , you might be able to reach them , but hearing it directly from the youth mouths themselves , that is going to be much more impactful.
S1:
S6: So , um , we we all know the research behind how trauma are passed on from generation , either socially or I think in , in genetically as well. Maybe I'm not familiar with that , but yeah , there's definitely , um , um , a shame , right ? Um , that translates in , in the family and , and a lot of people don't know. They don't recognize that the way we behave around others is actually is part of the trauma that's been passed on from our parent. Right ? A parent who actually endured go through the war and they have the anxiety or they have those trauma , it does pass on to the children that they don't know that they're doing that. Um , and I see that coming up a lot in the the family that I work with , Especially the youth and Vietnamese and family that I work with in the community. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Mhm. Um , you know , I guess I also want to talk about some of the difference , the intergenerational differences and intergenerational communication when it comes to mental health. I mean , what does that look like within the Vietnamese community. Um , more specifically. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. So for the , um , the adult , we definitely see more trauma than the depression symptom. Um , but , um , for the youth , I think it's just a lot more anxiety in general. Um , and for example , like the , the lack of awareness from the parent. Like Mr. Liu was sharing by his story. Um , we. Yeah , it's really difficult to to define. Oh , I'll.
S5: I'll jump in and comment on a broader perspective , because , you know , Mr. Nguyen is very much the smarter tree and he's very clinical. But I deal with the community at large. And what I found is there's this concept that silence is strength. With the older generation , you're supposed to hold it in , you're supposed to not divulge all of the issues that you have going on , because if you do , then you're not being strong and they pass that on to their children. And I know because my father was very much that way in that he held all of his issues. He held all of his pain , his trauma , because he was a refugee. He went through all of that. He was put in a war camp for a year , and it took years and years and almost a decade before he even talked about it. And he still today will not fully open up. And it's this concept that if you are a strong individual , you do not share your weakness with others , whereas the youth are much more open because the youth nowadays are much more connected. You've got so much social media , whether that's a good or bad thing. The simple fact is that youth are much more connected and they're much more engaged with each other. And so trying to bridge this divide , that's what Vaya does , is we're bridging the gap between the generations. We're connecting the old way of thinking about things , of holding your strength. And to be honest , some of that youth could use that. They could use that self-sufficiency. And then allowing the older generation to also teach the youth , while they teach them that you teach the older generation how to expand and how to connect , because you can't stand everything alone and you can't weather a storm by yourself.
S1:
S5: It's very , very cultural because you'll see it in a lot of the Asian cultures and not just the Vietnamese. I can't speak to the other cultures , but I can definitely say that it's a cultural dynamic that says , hey , look , you have to own what you do. I mean , culturally , the gender norms are completely different. The man is supposed to provide , they're supposed to do this. They're supposed to hold their own. Women are supposed to be caring. You know , these are all cultural , uh , educational norms that are taught in the community. It's a part trauma , because with trauma , you don't always want to share it. And it's harder to share things that really , really hurt you. But the cultural norms reinforce it and then allow it to persist. Okay.
S1: Okay.
S6: Um , I know when I work for the union of pan-Asian community here , back in the day , uh , I think in the late 2000 , when I was in grad school here , We don't see a lot of people in our community talk about mental health or , uh , therapists. That's , you know , like myself , go into the field of psychotherapy. But I think it's been more and more normalized , especially for the younger generation. Um , although the older generation still do not seek help enough despite having all this trauma. And , uh , so we do see , like , the initiative we're doing , we definitely see how the youth are really open to talk about and mental health and learning more about it. Um , and really , even at San Diego State , we do see a lot of students reaching out and seeking help as well as in the community. So definitely the conversation and really awareness about mental health has improved , although there's still a big segment of our community , are still really stigmatized or don't seek help because , uh , they , they think is is just only for people who are crazy to get help and so forth. Mhm.
S1: Mhm.
S6: I think a big part of those who are reluctant to seek help because of the they don't trust the system of mental health that we provide here. Right. Why would I go and talk to a stranger about my family problem in the in the Asian and Vietnamese culture ? Shame , saving face and not talking about your dirty laundry to a stranger ? It is something that we don't do , um , that we do , actually. Yeah , we don't do that because we just don't have the trust back. I think in Vietnam , in our culture , we usually go to like an elder in the community or a priest or a Buddha , a Buddhist , you know , to to get advice about a problem , not to a mental health professional. Although more and more , I think we're normalizing it. I think Vietnam now more developed with an improved mental health system , and more people are seeking help and really taking medication and so forth. But I remember when I work in the community here , a lot of people are really against medications and they think that's bad for you. I don't need that. And they actually wait until the problem get really bad before they actually seek help.
S1: All right , well , Mr. Liu , I'll let you have the final word here.
S5: Well , as far as the conversation on mental health , I think it's important for Vietnamese speaking mental health professionals like Mr. Nguyen to be in the community because what he said was very impactful , which is the community trusts their own. And if you have a non Vietnamese mental health professional approach , most community members , the whole concept of family , if you're not one of them , if you don't speak the language , then that's a huge language divide and a barrier for them to even engage in that conversation. And having people like Mr. Nguyen is very , very important so that they can actually engage in the first place and then having these kind of initiatives , because this is how we allow the youth to talk to their parents. Because if I go to a parent and says , your youth , your kid needs to have a conversation with mental health , they're going to kind of look at me weird. But if their own child comes to it , if their own grandchild comes to them and starts talking about that , then they'll engage. They'll be more open because they they kind of have to that's their family. And so with that in mind , we would love people to check it out. Mental health side.com. Again , it's mental health. We have our next three scholarship recipients giving out and doing the workshops. Please check it out.
S1: All right. And we'll have that link and more resources on our website at kpbs.org. I've been speaking with Trelew chair of Via Community Health Committee and Tre Nguyen , Licensed marriage and family therapist and counseling faculty at San Diego State University. Thank you both so much for this conversation.
S6: Thank you.
S5: Thank you so much , Jade.
S1: And up next , NPR's Manush Roti tells us about her new book on the digital age and well-being. KPBS Midday Edition returns after the break. Welcome back to KPBS midday edition. I'm Jade Hindman. You know , technology is meant to make our lives easier. It allows us to get more done , to keep in touch , to stay better informed. But all that tapping and swiping and the sitting that comes along with it is also having lasting impacts on our health. Manush Maradi is the host of NPR's Ted Radio Hour. She's out with a new book called Body Electric The Hidden Health Cost of the Digital Age and New Science to Reclaim Your Well-Being. Manush recently spoke with KPBS midday producer and roundtable host Andrew Bracken about the book. Here's that conversation.
S7: So this book , Body Electric , grew out of a podcast series where you began asking these questions about really how we're being changed by the technology we rely on. So tell us more about how this project got started. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. So really , we've been hearing so much about the mental health effects of social media and being online constantly. But to me , I felt my tech use in my body like this feeling at the end of the day where I couldn't focus anymore. My eyes were dry and tired , my back ached , I had no energy left , and the more I talked to people , the more they're like , yeah , I feel completely spent , drained and exhausted too. But you know what's the answer ? It's not like I can throw away my phone or get off my laptop. People have jobs. They have elderly parents , they have kids. If you are a younger person you're learning online. If you're an older person , it's often how you stay connected to the world. And so that really led me to ask , well , like what is going on in our bodies that is making us feel so physically drained when all we're really doing is sitting and looking at a screen , there's got to be more to it than just what we've been hearing , which is sitting as the new smoking. And that was sort of the journey that I went on to try and answer that question. Right.
S7: Right. And behind this is sitting , I think you write that it's , you know , the default way we live today. But that really wasn't always the case , was it ? No.
S8: Absolutely not. I mean , what we have seen over the decades is that every time a new technology is introduced , you know , whether that's the drive through at the , you know , restaurant or escalators or microwave or computers , it cuts out , it makes things more efficient and it cuts out our need to move. That is just what innovation does. It makes things easier. Unfortunately , the human body functions in a very ancient capacity , and it needs a minimum amount of movement every day to stay healthy so that we don't die in early death. So this is what was explained to me by a physiologist at Columbia University Medical Center. I heard about a study he had done to find out exactly the minimum amount that the human body needs in terms of movement , so that we don't die in early death. And he had an incredible formula , which was that five minutes of gentle movement for every half hour of long periods of sitting was the antidote. It. I actually took part in his lab study and found that my glucose was cut in half , my blood pressure dropped by five points , my concentration came back , my positivity came back. I felt like I had energy. And so to me , I was like , oh well , this makes a ton of sense. Just minimum amount of movement. And then I was like , well , where do screens fit into this ? Why do they make it so much worse or harder ? And really , screens add insult to injury , right ? What happens when we're on a screen as a neuroscientist , actually , who's now at UCLA , Sahib Khalsa explained to me , is that it disrupts something called interception. And interception is the signals that the our internal system sends us , telling us that it needs something that might be , you know , take off your sweater , it's hot in here or you're hungry. You need a snack or get off your screen and move. But we're so glued to our screens , we are so captivated and just fall into them to the point that we've been. We often ignore our body's call to action , to move , to breathe , to actually give us what we biologically need. And when we can start to do that , it makes all the difference.
S7: I want to talk more about those. I think you call them movement breaks. And , you know , your research that you did alongside physiologist Doctor Keith Diaz , because you did do even in in the podcast. Right ? You kind of reached out to the audience. You did your own research study. So tell us more about the types of movement , because there's a lot of interesting detail there about exercise and what , you know , how we think about it. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. And maybe some KPBS listeners took part , actually. So this was a couple of years ago. We put out the call to public radio listeners and said , we want to see if taking regular movement breaks is feasible , what the what sort of results they have , if indeed people can take them and how you fit them into your life. So we had 20,000 people sign up to take either five minute movement breaks every half hour , every hour or every two hours. And the results were actually pretty astounding. I was amazed we saw that people felt , on average , 25% less tired. We actually saw that despite all of the interruptions , productivity rose very slightly. People had more energy , they felt more positive. They had less pain. They felt like that feeling that they could never focus came back for them. And as Keith explained , you know , there's lots of reasons why. The biggest reason really , is that when your leg muscles are stimulated , they do some incredibly important jobs. They take in the glucose , the blood sugar from your blood and process it. They also push oxygen up to the brain and oxygenate your brain , which of course you need so that you don't become foggy or tired. Um , sitting. Of course , it makes it harder to take deep breaths and get that oxygen all the way up there. And I think part of the reason why people were so , so enthusiastic and stuck with it , 82% of the people who started actually stuck with it and liked it is because they started to think of what was happening inside their bodies when they let themselves take a break. It wasn't annoying like , oh , I have to take a break. It's like I get to take a break. It makes me feel better in my body. I know that I'm doing something for my longer term health and actually I can think better.
S7: So , you know , as I think you touch on in this book , we're inundated with health and wellness advice these days. Yes , from all over the place. You know much of it , I'm sure. Well-meaning , not always completely accurate. Um , and you write , you know , that science is actually quite complex , but also make the case that nuance doesn't go viral. So how did you address the complexity that comes with scientific research and , you know , making conclusions from the research , you and , you know , the people you spoke with did well. Also trying to tell , you know , just a great story in the book.
S9: Yeah , I love this question , Andrew. Nobody's ever asked me this. So I to.
S8: Me , I think there are people that , you know want a quick fix. but by appealing to the curiosity that I think a lot of people have about , like what actually is going inside my body and how did we get there ? You know , historically , where does where did all this innovation start to cut out the friction ? Or we've heard the term friction maxing. Adding more friction to your lives is like a thing. Now , how did we get to this point where we've become so efficient ? I think people once you start telling them the stories , they're curious , they're interested , they start to see it reflected in their own lives. And honestly , as AI begins to infiltrate into all kinds of people's work and sort of speeds up , uh , I'm hearing from so many people that they feel even more pressure to be on their screens , to churn out information , to sort of use these tools to their maximum capacity , and they're feeling even more burned out. So this is not a problem that is going away. It is a relatively simple solution. Add movement back into your life. But I've been thinking about it also as we we , you know , before the Industrial Revolution , no one said , ah , let's get back into nature , right ? Or like , think of the fish who who say like , well , what's water ? Right ? Like we have to talk about things like movements. Something we never had to talk about because technology is taking it away from our daily lives. So we have to be more intentional , purposeful , and maybe we can find a little bit of joy in it.
S7: You mentioned , you know , this problem is not going away. And whether it's from seeing the impact of social media and screens on kids or concerns over AI and just all the robots coming into our lives , I think we are seeing more concern , more legislation , more attention being raised about technology and the impacts it's having on us. Do you get the sense that there's , you know , a sea change going on here and how we're looking on technology , then say , I don't know , maybe 15 or 20 years ago and I think there was a lot more optimism in certain aspects of it.
S8: Oh , absolutely. I mean , I think more recently when we've heard all of these potential bans on social media for kids under 16 , I think people are sort of fed up with feeling like their lives are dictated to by the tech companies or the devices they use. But I think we need to , uh , caution , uh , letting tech off the hook. Right. Just saying , like , oh , we're going to ban kids from them. I think there's a lot of shame around technology. When we talk to kids like , get off your phone , you've had enough screen time , and I think we need to start framing it in a more constructive way. One of the things that I talk about in the book is , how do we tell kids what stop saying what not to do and tell them what to do. So instead of like , get off your phone , how about like , let's move some more ? Or instead of , you know , scroll time , let's talk about stroll time. Let's talk about like , how do you feel before you go on your iPad and afterwards start to read the sort of internalized signals , because it's not like you turn 16 and suddenly , magically , you have the ability to handle social media. I think these are skills and and feeling good in our body , not just in competitive sports or at gym class , but generally moving and being in the world is something we need to encourage and promote and make it fun. It's not competitive. It it scares me a little bit that we are going for legislation , or that there are fear tactics being used , when really I think we could use some positive news in our lives. We could use some optimism. And that's what I'm trying to offer here. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. And there is a good deal of optimism in this book. So thank you for sharing more about it with us today. I've been speaking with Manush Samadi. She's host of the Ted Radio Hour and author of the book Body Electric The hidden health costs of the digital age and new science to reclaim your wellbeing. Manush , thanks so much and congratulations on the book.
S8: Oh thanks , Andrew. Thanks to the KPBS listeners who joined in all those years ago.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
