S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. San Diego County is reviewing how it oversees contractors in the wake of an embezzlement scandal involving funds for health care. Then we hear one woman's personal end of life journey through medical aid and dying. Plus , as part of KPBS Price of San Diego series , why is the price of concert tickets gone up so much in recent years ? Then we take you inside the kitchen of one of San Diego's home kitchen operations. We see what they're cooking up. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. San Diego County has hired an independent auditor to review how it works with contractors. The audit was announced in light of recent charges against a former executive at one county contractor who misappropriated large sums of money meant for behavioral health care. Here to tell us more is Lisa Halverson. She covers the county for Voice of San Diego. Lisa , welcome back to roundtable.
S2: Thanks for having me , Andrew.
S1: Great to have you here. So tell us more about what the county announced this week.
S2: So as you said , the county is having an outside auditor dive into its internal contracting processes to try to improve oversight. I followed up , I found out they're going to be paying $68,000 for this review , and they're supposed to be done by the end of May. I want to note I am going to be fighting to make sure that that is public , and I can share the findings of it , but we're not sure yet if it will be.
S1: All right. So we'll stay tuned for that more in a coming episode I'm sure. But you know what ? You know , the person really kind of , you know , at the center of things here is Amy Knox. She's the former CEO of Harm Reduction Coalition of San Diego. What can you tell us about her and how she plays into , you know , what the county is doing with this audit this week ? Yeah.
S2: So actually , one little quick correction. She was the chief operating officer for what is now a former county contractor , the Harm Reduction Coalition of San Diego. She was charged last month with felony misappropriation multiple counts. And the DA's office is alleging that she spent at least $210,000 in public funds on things like plastic surgeries and family trips , electric bills , high end clothes and more. In that case , as you said , is now playing out in court.
S1: So this is the Harm Reduction Coalition of San Diego. Um , she was with for , you know , those that may not know , can you explain a little bit of what harm reduction is and how it fits into this picture of , you know , behavioral health care. Absolutely.
S2: Absolutely. So harm reduction is really a public health approach that's meant to minimize harm that's associated with things like drug use. So the goal is to try to reduce illness or public health issues that could come with it , like say , HIV or fatal overdoses , which have been a real epidemic the last several years. Um , it really is not , uh , it's trying to really understand that maybe people are going to continue to use drugs , but the goal is to minimize the harm associated with that , um , and to try to help with doing things like they did through this contract. Um , two contracts , actually , that the Harm Reduction Coalition had with San Diego County , which was one to distribute naloxone , often called Narcan , to reduce or really reverse overdoses that can be fatal. Um , and also to check drugs to see if there was fentanyl , in a drug and really let the community know if , say , that they thought they were , um , using methamphetamine. But it happened to have fentanyl on it. And we know that fentanyl has been just extremely deadly across the country , um , and has made a lot of national headlines.
S1: So the county is no longer working with the Harm Reduction Coalition of San Diego. Right.
S2: But the county relies on contractors for a lot of its behavioral health work. Literally dozens of contracts for everything from crisis stabilization units. Or people can go for up to 24 hours to distributing Narcan like we talked about. Um , really , the county is heavily reliant on contractors.
S1:
S2: And Amy Knox , the COO of that organization at the time , was specifically spotlighted because she was doing multiple jobs that , you know , were really sort of seen as a conflict. So the audit ordered the Harm Reduction Coalition to try to implement procedures and make make changes there. And the county says it did confirm that some changes were made. But then more issues were coming to light in 2024 and 2025 , for example , subcontractors weren't being paid. Also the county as some concerns , other concerns started to come up. Um , Amy Knox herself actually filed a whistleblower complaint. The county started to dig in more and found it at one point had taken months for the nonprofit to report that there had been a non-fatal overdose at their office. Um , and also that same COO that I mentioned was managing her own subcontract. And so in late June of 2025 , the county canceled its contracts with the Harm Reduction Coalition.
S1:
S2: Um , I heard some questions about was there some sort of financial mismanagement that maybe some subcontractors weren't being paid ? Um , Also , maybe there was their embezzlement situation. And so I really started back grounding her. And I found out about a past conviction for embezzlement that was involving a former employer , actually a family business that she had worked for , um , involving more than $500,000. Um , and I worked closely with a former intern of ours , um , and we ended up pulling some records at the county courthouse that documented this , um , past embezzlement conviction. But then , as is often the case , I know my KPBS colleagues are really familiar with this. You know , I got beat on the story by Blake Nelson from the U-T , a friend , um , and he had also confirmed concurrently with me that the DA's office was looking into this , um , and I was dealing with lots of other things. So I decided I'm going to just kind of keep looking into this on the back burner since Blake got the story out. Um , and then fast forward to , um , last month , February , I was starting to hear that there was going to be a case moving forward involving Amy Knox. And so whenever that happens , I'm trying to pull public records. And so I went to the courthouse on a Friday afternoon just really hoping , um , you know , I was hearing maybe some charges had been filed , hoping that I would get those records. Sure enough , there was a very kind clerk who helped me get those records just before the holiday and when the court record system was literally in transition. Um , and then I hurried to write a story , um , that afternoon that published after the Presidents Day holiday. Um , and I was able to use information that I had heard over the summer , um , when I had presented the county with this past embezzlement , embezzlement conviction , um , and asked them , hey , do you do background checks ? How do you handle this ? Um , they told me that they were really leaving it to contractors to handle background checks , and the CEO of the organization said this issue had not come up in their background check that she had done. So that raised some big questions.
S1: That's a really interesting window into your process and really appreciate , you know , kind of you just get a window of like how hard you're working on these stories , on breaking these stories. So this audit , it's expected to be completed around , I think like the end of May , as you mentioned earlier , what else are you following around the story ? I mean , there's larger questions even of , I don't know , like impacts on harm reduction in general in the county. Right.
S2: Oh so much. Well , first , I think I should say , um , especially where we left it on that last question , I have so many questions about checks and balances here. Um , how did the Harm Reduction Coalition get a second contract in 2024 after some big issues were flagged in 2023 ? Did the county know about this past conviction ? Um , what are their processes when they're , um , you know , are criminal issues in the past ? Um , you know , I think certainly if Amy Knox had been distributing Narcan , uh , maybe that wouldn't have been as big of a concern if she was , you know , really in charge of financials and had been literally convicted of embezzling more than $500,000 in the past. So I just have a lot of questions , um , about about all that. And then when we think about harm reduction. So harm reduction was a model that really took on more prominence during the opioid crisis. And for many years , San Diego County had been really resistant to the model. And in 2021 , um , under former supervisor Nathan Fletcher , they moved forward with this harm reduction strategy. And that has been growing. That kind of approach has been growing in the county. And now under the Trump administration , there's a much less favorable view of this approach. And the county says it's trying really hard to maintain funding and programming. Um , but it really , you know , is a big question here. What does this mean ? There are still folks doing this work , but , um , this could be a really bad time to have a scandal like this.
S1: Well , we'll be watching for more reporting. Lisa , thanks so much for joining us today. Lisa Halberstadt covers the county of San Diego for Voice of San Diego. Lisa , thanks so much.
S2: Thanks for having me.
S1: Coming up , new KPBS reporting shares the story of one woman's end of life process. Stay tuned. Roundtable is back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable I'm Andrew Bracken. California is one of 13 states where people who are terminally ill can request medication to end their life. The process is known as medical aid in dying. And in October it was made permanent in California. My colleague Heidi DeMarco got to know someone who went through the process and was with her in her final moments. And Heidi joins me now. She is KPBS health reporter. Hey , Heidi.
S3: Hi , Andrew.
S1:
S3: One of our colleagues at KPBS knows her , and she works for a autonomy health. It's a practice who helps people with end of life decisions. And so her the doctor , Donald Moore , had been working with her. And so I actually got to meet Theresa. Her name is Theresa Margaret Kelly. But she goes by Kelly. And I got to meet her about ten days before she chose to take the medication.
S1: So yeah. Tell us more about Kelly.
S3: It took her a couple of years of medical appointments and neurologist to kind of figure out what was going on with her. So by the time I met her , she was , you know , in some pain. She was starting to struggle with being able to get words out. She she was kind of just really just ready.
S1: And what led her to consider and eventually proceed with medical aid and dying.
S3: She had been living her life the way she told me. She lived a very colorful , very full life , uh , based on her own terms , and so she wanted to make her end of life decisions the same way. She wanted to have autonomy and be able to choose how and when she left this world.
S1: You know , choosing how to die. I mean , it's it's really such a powerful choice. And , you know , I think you touched on this a little earlier. You have done some reporting looking into the death process.
S3: I covered death and dying many , many years ago when it just started first coming out. But for this particular story , I started looking into the rise of death doulas. I just found it so fascinating , and I ended up meeting some wonderful folks at a death cafe in Encinitas last month , and it just kind of brought up a lot of questions about what's going on at the end of life , the decisions , who is being able to access. You know , do people know about these choices , about these laws now that they have options ? Right ? They don't all have to go down the traditional route. And so I started , you know , meeting people. And I figured out about , you know , this new law coming out of San Diego , a San Diego state senator , just kind of modernizing forms and of life forms just to make them less complicated for folks. And there's just a lot of a lot going on here with , with death and Dying. And people are just a lot more open to the discussion. Um , there seems to be this , like during the pandemic. I think we all kind of shared it together. We experienced stuff together. And so I feel like now people are just more open to talking about it and just more open to seeing what other options there are. When it comes to end of life.
S1: Yeah , I mean , it is such a process that I think oftentimes we shy away from. Right. We , we avoid , um , and , you know , and just to kind of go back to the death doulas , you know , this is someone that kind of helps people through that process. Is that a fair way to kind of explain it ? Right.
S3: Just like you would think of a birth doula , someone who brings someone into this world. You have a death doula who will help guide you out. And it is just really fascinating , honestly , because there's just so many things that go into it that I don't think that we think about or that we talk about. And so they just kind of help not just the person , but also their family members in terms of letting go in in a peaceful , you know , spiritual way that it's very different. It can be very different than the traditional way of of just a normal funeral. Um , a lot , a lot of celebration goes into it , a lot of like living funerals , things that happen before you pass so that you can experience it and it just doesn't happen after the fact.
S1: And you cover that in this storytelling. You know , Kelly's story you actually capture , I'd say.
S3: One of the things that was so interesting to me is that as I was walking up to the apartment , I could hear the music already. I could hear the laughter from the outside. And the minute I walked in , you would never think that in a couple of hours Kelly would no longer be with us. It was such a beautiful , um , scene , you know , because it you had folks that were We're dancing. You had people that were crying. You know , there was a mixed emotions , but it wasn't what you would typically think. Uh , for for something that would happen just hours before someone's death.
S1: You know , for the in this reporting , you also got to know Theresa's doctor , Donald Moore , and you sort of highlight , you know , their own relationship , the kind of warm dynamic between two of them.
S3: There definitely is an art to this. This is something that Doctor Dudley Moore told me there. You can get this prescription for medical aid in dying from , you know , your your physician. But he specializes in this. And there is this intimacy that goes into it. They knew each other for , I think , a little bit more than a year and they developed this relationship. If when you hear the conversations between them , the banter , it's very funny. It's light. It's it's they really did form a beautiful friendship. And in her last , you know , days , she actually wanted to experience what it would feel like letting go the way that she thought it would feel like the day she died and she actually went skydiving and he went with her. So that tells you the kind of relationship that they formed. Yes.
S1: Yeah , absolutely. And here's a little bit of their , I don't know , their dynamic here that you captured in your story.
S4: Hi , Doctor Moore , you missed the party. The drinks are all gone.
S5: Parties wherever you are.
S1: So that just gives a taste of what you were talking about there. But Doctor Moore has made a practice out of this. Tell me more about him. Yes.
S3: Yes. So he started off. I think there were conversations that were being had when he was trying to figure out , I think when he was in medical school , and he just kind of told me he felt a pull towards this kind of work. And so he has opened his own practice called Autonomy Health , where , like I said , he guides people. He helps people through these end of life decisions , especially when it comes to medical aid and dying and when , you know , different kind of options people have. And at the end of life. And so he just kind of helps them transition. He also works with a death doula. And they just kind of , you know , um , give options to people. Um , at the end of life and kind of hold their hand as they , as they go through this.
S1: And here's a clip of Doctor Moore when you spoke with him for this story.
S6: They're really choosing it out of a sense of wanting agency over their life to really choose how they exit this world.
S1: I want to turn now to another part of this story. She brought up the cost of end of life care , and I'm wondering if you can , you know , explain to us what typically that looks like in the US.
S3: Well , it can it can range between 3 to $5000. And that covers the process , which includes several doctor's visits , the actual medication. So. And it's also not covered by insurance. So that's you know , that's not very it's also expensive. Right. So even if you are aware of this option , um , you know , the fact that it's , it's not covered by insurance , that this is something that Doctor Moore told me he feels it's unfortunate. This is a medical procedure that is legal in California , but it's still not covered by insurance. So that could put off , you know , some folks from being able to to do this.
S1: And here is a clip from Kelley talking about just some of the financial about that sort of money issue in relation to end of life care , whether she goes through this process or through the treatment she currently is undergoing.
S4: The biggest part of this is how much money it costs. You know , the question I came , came up with right away was how long can I afford to live ? Not long.
S1: So I mean Heidi. That's that's really interesting too , right ? You mentioned the cost of this end of life approach , but there's also just having to maintain and to keep up with the medications. You show how much even you get , a sense of how many medications she's taking in the video story you tell here. Yeah. Talk to me more about that.
S3: Right ? You're right. In the US , I found out it was , you know , in the final years of life , like especially the final year , it can average up to $80,000. And so , yes , Medicare can pay for some of that , but patients are still responsible for thousands out of pocket. So you can imagine I mean , if you didn't know that this was an option , and let's say your diagnosis was something that you were you were going to suffer from physically , uh , maybe you could avoid that. You know , a lot of people are are spending their last , you know , months , you know , in , in physical pain. They're mounting up , you know , medical bills and maybe undergoing some medical treatment that , you know , will only prolong their life , maybe a couple of months or so. And so you really have to look into that. That's that's a lot of money that is going into into end of life. And it just it kind of , you know , puts a lot into perspective of how much we're paying to just for these last , you know , years of our life. And it's , you know , some people can't , can't afford it.
S1: You spent time with Kelly through this process , but also through her last moments.
S3: She was so , you know , it's just immediately it was someone that I , you know , you She was just so ready to ready. Like she was full of life , but she was also ready. And so in that last day , she was. So there was this mix of emotions , right ? Because she was smiling. She was laughing. She. But there were moments there where she would be in these intimate hugs with her friends and there were tears , you know , and I could see that her leg was shaking , you know , a little bit there , there were , there were. So there were these like mix of emotions of , of joy. She was clapping her hands and singing along. But then there was also these quiet moments of of reflection while the music is still playing , you could see that she was getting ready. Finally.
S1: Finally. Heidi , I'm just wondering how reporting the story has changed , how you think about how we treat , how we think about how we handle death in our society today.
S3: I think it just brought up the fact that there are so many options now , that maybe there weren't before , that the way we look at death is sometimes we look at it and it doesn't necessarily Kelly. I mean , I think she said it best. It doesn't have to be a scary thing , right ? It could be what you make of it. And I think that there is a lot of discussions that need to be had about what's going on in , in the death and dying that people are having at these death cafes , that people are , you know , starting to question and , and look into. And I think we're just at the beginning stages of this , but it's very nice to be able to see that people are just more open and more receptive and and just to view it in a way of it's just another it doesn't have to be sad. And , you know , it can be a celebration , right ? It can be joyful as well.
S1: And you do just an excellent job capturing , you know , that beauty in those moments. And thanks for that reporting , Heidi. I've been speaking with Heidi DeMarco. She's a health reporter for KPBS. And you can find her full story on Teresa Margaret Mary Kelly at our website , KPBS. Thanks so much for being here.
S3: Oh , thank you so much.
S1: And if you or someone you know needs help , you can always contact the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting the number 988. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. The lights go out. Your favorite artist takes the stage and starts playing your favorite song. You and a crowd of strangers come together for a transformative experience driven by a shared love of music. The experience of going to a concert is really one of life's special moments. And that experience , though , as with other parts of our lives , has gotten more expensive than it used to be. And that's the focus of a story by my next guest , Julia Dixon Evans. It's part of KPBS Price of San Diego series , and Julia is an arts reporter here at KPBS and host of the Finest podcast. Hey , Julia.
S7: Hey , Andrea. Thanks for having me.
S1: Thanks for being here to talk about the story. But , you know , I just want to pick your brain , just briefly.
S7: Right. To be so blown away by his music , surrounded by other people feeling the same , that shared experience of it. Right. That you said I was addicted. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. It is. It can be just like these special moments that stay with us. So your story , you know , takes this really looking into the dollars and cents here of why concert tickets have gotten more expensive.
S7: It's a live music venue , a small venue. And I talked to Tim Mays. He's run the Casbah for the last 37 years. He said that even these smaller shows have seen a price creep.
S8: Let's fast forward to pre-pandemic and a typical show , let's say a smaller touring band. tickets would be 12 , maybe 15 the night of the show. After the pandemic , that bumped up to 1518 and then now , you know , starting point for a band that's relatively unknown. I see asks for $20 tickets , $25 tickets at the door. And you know , I , I pushed back on that when I can. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. And so like with larger venues , it's obviously a lot worse. Like there's the outdoor amphitheater in Chula Vista. It's now known as North Island Amphitheater. Um , my coworker showed me her ticket stub. This was from a front row seat in 1988 to see Stevie Nicks , and it cost her 40 bucks , including fees and those exact same seats in the same venue. To see Rod Stewart this summer are $1,227. So the each that's over $1,000 for the ticket and then $221 for service fees. And Rod Stewart is obviously an outlier that advertises his final tour. So I looked around for some more shows and even like orchestra section tickets for Evanescence , that's also $428.
S1: And I actually don't think about it. I did see Rod Stewart many tickets. It was far less than $1,200 , though , you know , and looking into the price of these tickets , you know , obviously inflation plays plays a role. But you're saying it's not , you know , a huge part of this increase. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. Right. So like $40 1998 adjusted for inflation is not 1200 bucks. I used the US Bureau of Labor Statistics calculator , which is like this really fun and depressing tool. So that $40 in 1988 has the same buying power as just over $80 today. And the concert tickets not the only thing that we're spending money on when we go to a show like there's inflation in food and the drinks we get at the bar , ride shares all of it.
S1: Oh yeah. That's true. Um , what are some of the factors involved in , you know , deciding the price of a concert ticket ? I think Tim Mays talked a little bit about just this conversation he has with bands. But , you know , tell us a little bit more how that , you know , ticket price actually gets set.
S7: And it's mostly coming from the booking agent. Um , that's where prices are set. It's not the venue. It's not the artist. Um , and he's also said it's not an exact science , but there are things that they generally take into account. So you have the band payment. It's generally a flat rate. Sometimes there's there's variation in that too. There is an allocation for the opening act. Um , hospitality , travel cost for the bands , tour production costs and crew. When you're talking about a larger venue , bigger production , those costs are going to go up to. There's venue expenses , the staff , the rent , utilities , insurance , everything to keep the lights on. Uh , promotion taxes , the ticketing platform. And then for the user , what they're paying. There's also fees and potential surge pricing and surge pricing is really interesting. Those $1,200 Rod Stewart tickets are what Ticketmaster refers to is their official platinum market price. So what this means is what you pay for your seat depends on what was happening with demand and supply when you logged on to Ticketmaster to buy the tickets , and this could be wildly different from what the people sitting next to you pay.
S1: Yeah , we've kind of gotten more used to that surge pricing model , which you said like ride shares. You know , you check one minute it's this price and ten minutes later it can be vastly different.
S7: And there's not a lot of transparency.
S1: Yeah , I want to , you know , just for a moment , put the focus back on the bands a little bit. Because one thing that's interesting , I mean , you've covered sort of like , you know , the cost of , of music and how musicians are doing in this economy. On the finest podcast , um , you particularly highlighted how little musicians actually make in this sort of streaming era of music we're in right now. So how are artists and bands thinking about rising ticket prices and how it's impacting their bottom lines.
S7: Yeah , so playing live shows is not like the sure thing that artists could do to make money anymore. Um , like , artists are finding that they have to be super economical about touring as well. And Tim Mays from the Casbah , he told me that he sees a lot of touring acts. They're paring down , um , they're requesting loaner gear. But he did say they don't have it like a loner drum set , so they'll always have to bring a drum set. But bands can then save on gas and travel costs. They can rent a smaller car. And then Juliana Zakaria , who's someone we interviewed on The finest. Um , she said she struggles with being able to turn around and pay a band or pay like backing musicians. So she often just has to play solo. And , I mean , I've heard this from bands and artists and also from venues that merch is thriving right now. Like it's the one thing that is like popping off. Yeah. So bands are making a lot from selling shirts or stickers or vinyl. And they're also making a lot of custom stuff like hand making hats or things like that.
S1: Um , you also , you know , earlier you mentioned Ticketmaster and they're kind of role in these fees and the pricing. Um , and in your piece you also mentioned Live Nation. These are two of like really big companies here in the space. Can you remind us what they each do and just the sway they're having on ticket prices. Right.
S7: Right. So Live Nation is an events promoter , venue operator. They've been around since the 90s , and they've become one of the biggest venue operators across the country , like mostly large venues. And I would say the majority of the large venues. Right. And Ticketmaster , as a ticket sales company , has been around since the 70s. And then in like 2009 , 2010 , they merged. So what we have now is one company that controls so many large venues , also controls how people can buy tickets and what is charged for those tickets. And critics have called this a monopoly. They've long accused this of being a monopoly. And , you know , with a monopoly , less competition means higher prices. And there was just an antitrust suit against Ticketmaster and Live Nation calling our Live Nation a monopoly , resulting in elevated ticket prices. And the Justice Department just settled that the antitrust suit. And I reached out to an antitrust law professor for the story. John Newman teaches at the University of Memphis. And he said that even with the settlement , Live Nation might still be able to require exclusivity from its venues for ticketing platforms like the core monopoly is still going to be there , and the fees will still be largely unregulated. Um , yeah , there's there is a price capping piece in that deal in that settlement. There might be a slight decrease in prices that that , um , fans could see , but he actually doubts that will actually shake out. He thinks that Ticketmaster is going to always find a way to shift fees around. So yeah , independent venues often use independent ticketing platforms. Casbah Soda bar , they all do , and the fees are often a bit lower.
S1: You know. And when you spoke with Tim Mays , one really interesting detail that stood out to me is he mentioned to you how he's noticed a decline of of what he said , the walk up ticket buyer. And I was so I don't know , I was just so interested. Tell us more about that and why why he thinks that's that's happening.
S7: Well , he said that they all have a show with like 180 tickets sold in advance , but only five walk ups. It used to be a lot more for them. And part of that is like the no cash life , right ? And the other part of it is what he thinks happened to like our spontaneity over the pandemic. Like the walk up sales just screeched to a halt. We're not like going out on a whim as much anymore. Part of that is the expense , right ? But part of it is just something that happened to like our mentality as a society. And interestingly , you can pay cash for a show at the Casbah. You can just walk up the night of the show , pay cash , walk in. If it's not sold out.
S1: If you have cash , I'm not.
S9: If you have cash.
S7: But then you don't have to pay fees. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Oh , that's a good note. That's huge. Well , I mean , that leads to one part of your piece is you give folks some really valuable tips here to kind of help think about , you know , how to mitigate these high ticket prices. Can you share you know , a few of those with us ? We have about two minutes left. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. I mean , a big part of saving money on shows is avoiding huge venues , avoiding those huge acts. I mean , if your heart set on Rod Stewart or Taylor Swift , go for it. But if you want to find cheaper shows , go to the smaller venues. Um , you know , they're they're lower fees , but they're also seeing less of a hike in prices over time. Right. Like it's still there , but it's not to the scale of those huge shows. Um , you know , I paid 20 bucks to see Saint Vincent in 2012 at House of Blues. Adjusting for inflation again. That's $28 today. And you know , House of blue shows today are like 35 , 45 bucks. So it is higher than inflation , but it's not $40 to $1200. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. You also reached out to folks just to hear about what they thought of the state of , you know , ticket prices.
S7: I mean , it was almost unanimous. There were some people that said , like , we're saving up for the big ticket shows. We are going to like budget for that Taylor Swift concert or whatever. But a lot of people said that they're seeking out smaller venues , local shows , local bands and finding free shows , too. It's stuff that's out there.
S1: I've been speaking with KPBS arts reporter and host of The Finest podcast. Julia Dixon Evans. Julia , thanks so much for sharing this. This is a great story.
S7: Thank you Andrea.
S1: This is KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken , and we turn now from live music to sounds from the kitchen. That's the sound of pupusas being made out of one of San Diego's Micro Enterprise home kitchen operations , better known as micros. And they're part of a county program that allows people to sell food from their home kitchens. KPBS video journalist Carlos Castillo recently visited one local , Mico , to hear more about their story. And I'm sure to try the pupusas , too. Carlos , Carlos , welcome to roundtable.
S10: Hey , Andrew. Thanks for having me.
S1: Great to have you here. So , you know , tell us more about these makos and how they work. Yeah.
S10: Yeah. So it's a micro enterprise home kitchen operation like you mentioned. And yeah , it allows people to sell food directly from their home. You know , uh , if uh , some people , you know , they , they don't have the funds to , like , get a food truck.
S1: Commercial kitchen or something. Exactly.
S10: Exactly. Buy all this equipment. So this allows people to , you know , start a business directly from their home and sell directly from their home. So it's it's a huge opportunity for a lot of people.
S1: And I imagine it gives , you know , some folks might go into more first step and opening a restaurant or something. Yeah.
S10: Yeah. It's like a it's like a stepping stone , you know , this can get you started. If your business is doing really well , you you can move up to a food truck and even open up your own business.
S1: So , you know , this is a story about food. And I want to talk more about food , but it's also one about ultimately about family. Tell us about this this duo behind love Pupusas , who you feature here. Yeah.
S10: Yeah. So I , uh , I discovered about love pupusas , um , through Instagram when I was researching this story , and I , I stumbled across this page , love pupusas. And I noticed it was a mother and daughter and and I just felt like , oh , this seems like a , like a really nice story. Hopefully , hopefully they're they're down to talk to me and. Yeah , uh , they invited me over to their house and they told me their full story from from the start , from when Nira was a was a small child and her mother was teaching her how to make pupusas. To now where it's just a home business and they're and they're making money off of this tradition.
S1: And for folks that don't know , can you like , explain it's pupusas are it's like a Salvadoran. Yeah.
S10: Yeah. She explained it. She's like , you know , uh , Mexico. They have their tacos in El Salvador. We have our pupusas , and it's pretty much like corn flour. And it's , it's it has , like , meat or vegetables stuffed in the center with cheese. It always has cheese. And. Yeah. And then they just cook them on a griddle and they are delicious.
S1: Well , I want to hear what your favorite was. Maybe in a second , but , um , you know , you have a really nice video package of this story where we really see and hear the food. How did you approach telling the story of love ? Pupusas. And , you know , the family behind it ? Yeah.
S10: So we , uh , KPBS we had done stories about Mico Kitchens before , but we had it done one where , you know , the the owner kind of tells their story. So I wanted to make this a non narrated piece , and I wanted a generous voice to tell her story. So I kind of took it. I kind of took that angle on it. And , um , it worked out pretty well. Yeah.
S1:
S10: Her mother's 88 years old , and it's hard for her to , like , walk around. So in the kitchen at home , she's able to have like a spot for her and they're able to work together really well. And she says that if she had a food truck operation , that was like a daily thing , she wouldn't be able to have her mom by her side.
S1: You know ? Can you talk a little bit about the process ? I think , you know , you kind of break it down. How can someone who may be interested in starting Amico , how do they get started ? Yeah.
S10: So it's a permit that they fill out through the county health department. And , um , it's a pretty much people just submit their menu , their standard operating procedures , and then they get they go through an inspection process , and the inspection process is the same person who would go and inspect , like say , if you had a real restaurant , it's the same person that comes to your house and inspects your house. So I would say it's just as safe as any other restaurant.
S1: Much more accessible , as you said. Yeah , we have , you know , about a minute and a half left here. And you also had another recent story. And I just want to briefly ask you about that. You you profiled this pretty unique kind of storefront in Ocean Beach. It's called Connect San Diego.
S10: Back when he was getting started with Connect San Diego , he used to just do pop ups , and his whole thing was like having , like , telephone booths and , like , old school phones everywhere. And his whole thing was about , you know , showing a different artist and different types of , like , fashion and stuff. So he would do pop ups and then invite different artists to , like , be part of his pop ups. But eventually that grew into a store and a gallery in Ocean Beach , California. And yeah , it's an amazing store. You go in there and it's just like all different types of colors , all these really cool clothes , stickers. It really has a taste of like nostalgia. You'll go in there and there's like a bunch of VHS around. Just really cool. There was I spent about like 3 to 4 hours in there getting video talking to him. Just a really cool spot to visit that that really resembles , like the , the vibe of of Ocean Beach.
S1: That's a really unique piece. So I recommend , you know , folks , both check out both of those stories from Carlos. You can find that on our website. They'll also be linked in our show notes at the bottom of today's roundtable episode. Carlos Castillo is a video journalist here at KPBS. Carlos , thanks. Thanks so much for being here.
S10: Thanks , Andrew. Thanks for having me.
S1: That'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thanks so much for listening. If you missed any of today's show , you can always listen to roundtable as a podcast. If you have any thoughts on today's show or ideas for a future one , you can always email us at roundtable at KPBS or leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables technical producer is Brandon Truffaut. The show is produced by Ashley Rush. Brooke Rooth is roundtable senior producer , and I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again and have a great weekend.
