S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. On today's show , California lawmakers are moving to an end , a tax break that's been used for an Ice detention center in Imperial County. We hear more about what's being proposed and the KPBS investigation that spurred the change. And. Then San Diego's commercial fishing industry used to be known across the world , but it has shrunk significantly over the past several decades. We hear about reporting , looking to what makes it so hard to be a fisherman in San Diego today. Plus , as the World Cup rolls on , without Mexico or us still in it , the conversation about binational soccer fandom in San Diego. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. In May , a KPBS investigation found that in Imperial County , Ice Detention Center had been getting millions in tax breaks for years. That's because the company that owns the facility is registered as a nonprofit. Well , that reporting caught the attention of state lawmakers and inspired new legislation to stop detention centers from claiming charitable tax breaks. Here's Democratic State Senator Steve Padilla at a June Assembly hearing.
S2: Subsidizing these facilities with charitable tax exemptions at the expense of local schools and local services betrays the community and then the mission that nonprofits alleged to serve.
S1: Joining me now with the details is Corey Suzuki. He covers the Imperial Valley here at KPBS. Corey , welcome.
S3: Hey , Andrea , thanks for having me.
S1: Great to see you. So we talked to you back in May about your investigation into this nonprofit that owns the Imperial Regional Detention Facility , and you found there getting millions of dollars in tax breaks. Why is that exactly right?
S3: Well , this investigation stems from a tip that I got back in the fall. I filed a series of public records requests , and through those , we learned that the Imperial Regional Detention Facility has avoided paying a large share of its property taxes for close to a decade through a special state tax credit called the welfare exemption , which is typically reserved for charities like you said. We found that the IDF's owner , a local nonprofit called the Brawley Community Foundation , used its non-profit status to apply for this exemption. State and county officials both knew that its purpose was to own and operate a detention center , but they still signed off , according to the records we found. And the facility has over the last ten years , avoided paying at least $6 million.
S1: And one sort of additional , you know , caveat that's brought attention to this is also the conditions inside the facility , which have been kind of receiving some , you know , attention as well. Tell us more about that. Right.
S3: Right. I think that's a really important point. And this goes back years. I mean , the facility , the Imperial Regional Detention Facility , has faced these allegations of abuse going back to very early in its time running. This includes providing inadequate medical care. It's been accused of violating detainees civil rights and using solitary confinement in retaliation , in lawsuits and other complaints. And since President Donald Trump's return to power and the beginning of his mass deportation campaign , two immigrants have died after experiencing health crises at the facility.
S1: Well , and all this brings us to this new legislation , SB 420. It's called before we get into the specifics , walk me through the timeline here.
S3: Well , our story came out in May , and pretty much immediately , several state lawmakers , two state lawmakers , I should say , responded one state senator Jerry McNerney , who chairs the Senate's revenue and taxation committee , said that his committee was launching an immediate review of the tax breaks and the arrangement , and then state Senator Steve Padilla later the following week said.
S1: Who represents who.
S3: Represents Imperial.
S1: County San Diego to.
S3: Yeah , exactly. Exactly. Democrat from Chula Vista originally , who was a Chula Vista City Council member , said that he was planning to introduce legislation. And earlier last month , Padilla introduced that legislation , SB 420 , citing our reporting directly.
S1: And what exactly would SB 420 change?
S3: Well , this comes back to the welfare exemption , which is this special state tax credit. The welfare exemption is directly overseen by the state legislature. So SB 420 would explicitly rewrite the law to state that detention centers don't qualify for this tax credit.
S1: Um , there's , you know , several people have come out in support of the bill. Just run through that list a little bit , you know , who's likely supporting this. And you know what's going to happen here. Right.
S3: Right. The bill has gotten Around a dozen supporters so far officially to sign on. There's a number of immigrants rights groups from Southern California to Northern California. The California Association of Nonprofits has signed on to support it as well. A Southern California sheriff's union. And then it's gotten a good amount of support from several state lawmakers so far in the Assembly. The Imperial County Board of Supervisors , interestingly , they were silent on this when we published our story back in May. But they have also voted to support the bill unanimously. And then most interesting , I think , is the Imperial County Assessor and the California Board of Equalization. These are two agencies , one local , one state. But these are the two bodies that had to sign off on these tax breaks in the beginning. Now they're coming around and saying they want to see more clarity in the law. And there they have both said publicly the board threw a vote. And the assessor , through an interview with me , have said that they support this law. This this bill becoming becoming law.
S1: And walk us through a little bit about some of the driving arguments behind it. You know , why are people , you know , coming out in support of it? Right.
S3: Right. Well , supporters of this bill have made two key arguments. First , that that this bill erodes trust in the nonprofit sector. This facility is owned by the Brawley Community Foundation , but it's run by Management and Training Corporation , which is a for profit private prison company based in Utah. And supporters of the bill say that what this arrangement looks like is effectively using a charitable designation to shield a multimillion dollar private prison contractor from paying its fair share of local property taxes , and that that degrades public confidence in other nonprofits. And then second , that this arrangement draws resources away from public services. The exemption works by reducing the taxable value of the property. That means that the detention centers owner pays less in property taxes by themselves , but also less into things like local bonds for the Calexico School District and the regional community College. Um , I want to play a little bit of audio , if that's okay , of Jennifer Fearing speaking at the June assembly meeting that I mentioned earlier , she's an advocate with the California Association of Nonprofits.
S4: By siphoning away millions of dollars in property taxes under the guise of charity. These operations directly deprive local municipal budgets , public schools and community infrastructure of vital funding. This forces actual , community focused organizations to stretch even thinner to fill gaps.
S3: And then I think just broadly , there's a bigger question here too , which is that in a state like California , where lawmakers have for years taken these steps to push back against federal immigration enforcement , should Imperial County taxpayers have to subsidize the operations of a nice detention facility?
S1: Yeah , I'm glad you mentioned that because I did want to touch on that. I think a lot of California's leaders have sort of struggled on how to respond to federal policy on , you know , immigration enforcement that we've seen over the last couple of years. How do you think that this effort fits into that? Right?
S3: Right? Well , I think that's what's in in some ways makes this action notable is that this is a concrete action that state lawmakers can take when it comes to federal immigration policy. So often there's this large disconnect. The federal government has overarching authority , and there's there's not always that much that state and local officials can do. But in this case , this is a clear situation where California law has allowed this. The owner of this detention center to receive these benefits , and California lawmakers can decide to continue that or to take it away.
S1: And we should note , you know , there is no argument against this bill. Not everybody's for it. And a lot of the push against it has been driven by Timothy Kelly's , a founding board member of the Brawley Community Foundation. What does he argue here? Right.
S3: Right. Well , Kelly has argued from the beginning , and we spoke to him for our initial investigation back in May. And he's argued from the beginning that the Imperial Regional Detention Facility is a major employer in Imperial County , a place where it's often hard to find well-paying jobs. He also points out that they do pay some share of their property taxes , although it is a much smaller fraction. And Kelly has also suggested that this bill could change whether MTC that's the Ice contract or the private prison company continues to operate the Imperial Regional Detention Facility. In an email to KPBS , he warned that the company makes slim profit margins from running the detention center and has times operated at a loss in previous years.
S1: So what's next for the bill? Where does it go and what are its what's the outlook for its passage?
S3: Well , state lawmakers are on recess right now for July , but they'll be coming back in August. And so we'll be looking ahead to when they move forward to revisit this discussion. Kind of the window for for bills is is closing pretty quickly after that. So we'll see. We'll see what happens when they revisit it in the coming months.
S1: So more to follow from you there. But you know , Corey , as we kind of wrap up here , I do want to talk about , you know , as journalists , I think , you know , we used to hearing reactions to our work , maybe some positive some some negative here. But in this case it's had real impact in that we're seeing this legislation be developed. You know , reading about this new bill , um , responding to your investigation , I'm just wondering , what has that been like for you to see , um , this investigation into this tax break leading to actual legislation?
S3: It is pretty wild. Um , and I mean , I have to say , like like we were just talking about this isn't a law yet. It's still got a ways to go. Um , but I think what I was thinking about earlier about this is that this story again , it came from a tip. It came from someone coming to us and saying , I have this question. I have this thing that I want you to look into , because I think there might be something , um , worth examining closer. And so I think this speaks to really the power of the public in driving our work of individual people. If you're listening to this , if you have a question that that you you think needs to be answered , needs , needs more attention and more light on it. Um , just I think that that's what this this speaks to of the , the , the what it can look like when , when you have individual people trying to uncover the , the truth.
S1: Lastly , you know , this is going to have to be a short answer here , but I do want to ask it. You've been covering the Imperial Valley since the end of 2024. We've talked to you several times about how you've been approaching it , and about a lot of your impactful reporting that's come out of it. But just really briefly , you know , what have you learned about the Imperial Valley and the people living there since you began covering that region , which I think you were really thoughtful about how you wanted to cover it.
S3: Thanks , Andrew. Um , yeah. I learned , actually , after moving here , that we have some family roots in the Imperial Valley. My family's Japanese. American. Lots of Japanese farmers there early on , along with the large Mexican American community and smaller Filipino Punjabi communities. And I think the biggest thing I've taken away from everyone I've gotten to talk with here is just how much pride there is in the valley , how many people who want to make it a better place.
S1: I really appreciate it. And thanks for , you know , talking more about this and congratulations on your work. You can send an email to investigations at KPBS or send anonymous tips , or share documents via Secure Signal account at (619) 594-8177. I've been speaking with Corey Suzuki. He covers the South Bay and Imperial Valley here at KPBS. Cory , thanks so much.
S3: Thanks , Andrew.
S1: Coming up , San Diego's commercial fishing fleet has been shrinking for decades. We hear about one local effort to help turn things around by training the next generation of fishermen. That's ahead on roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. It's hard to think about San Diego history without talking about fishing. Commercial fishing was at one time one of the city's biggest industries , employing some 40,000 people. And San Diego became known as the Tuna capital of the world at one point. Today , San Diego's fishing fleet is a small fraction of what it once was. According to one study from 2011 , there are less than 150 commercial fishermen left in San Diego. Cal matters recently took a closer look at the state of San Diego's fishing industry , and one effort to help bring it back. I'm joined now by the journalists behind that reporting. Deborah Sullivan Brennan is a Cal Matters reporter who covers San Diego. And Adriana Valdes is assistant visuals editor with Cal Matters. Welcome back to roundtable to you both. Good to see you.
S5: Thank you. Hi. Thank you.
S1: So I don't know , I think many of us have images of San Diego fishermen hoisting giant tuna from boats , and you've seen the black and white photos , maybe at restaurants or around town. Debra , I'm wondering what image do you have of San Diego's fishing past?
S5: Yeah , I think you're right. We've seen the pictures of the big tunas and the docks full of the catch of the day and the harbor full of fishing fleets. And so I think that's what what we what I imagine from our past , which is different from what we're seeing now.
S1: Yeah , it's it's changed so much. And , Adriana , you grew up here in San Diego. I mean , what comes to mind for you? It's kind of similar pictures of that sort of epic era of San Diego fishing.
S6: Yeah , I mean , fishing is such a big part of San Diego , right? We're right at the Bay. So I feel that living , like going down to Seaport Village or down to even the Chula Vista Harbor , um , it's it's such a big part of of who I am as a San Diegan And I think sometimes we we tend to forget about it. Right. Because it's it's always there. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So , Deborah , you and Adriana center your reporting on a local apprenticeship program for fishermen , and I want to dig into that. But first , talk to me about the reasons behind a need for something like that. How great is the need for , you know , people to take on fishing as a profession today? Right.
S5: Right. Well , this fishing apprenticeship aimed to backfill the ranks of a graying and shrinking fishing fleet. As many of the captains are getting older , they're approaching retirement , but there aren't a lot of new fishermen coming up behind them. It's economically difficult. Um , it's it's a fairly solitary venture. And so there aren't a lot of people coming through the ranks. And so they wanted to expand that to people who are interested in getting into fishing and who wanted to give it a shot , but needed a little bit of a hand or some training.
S1: Adriana , you worked on the imagery behind this series , and there's some really nice photos that kind of capture all these different steps of the fishing industry. But one interesting thing , kind of going back to the , you know , how you got started on this reporting , you say the focus of the story kind of changed once you started digging into what was actually happening in the industry. Tell us how you got started looking into this in , you know , where it ultimately took you? Yeah.
S6: Yeah. So I heard about this program through a colleague of mine who knows someone who helps basically put it together. And , you know , he sort of told me , this is the reason why we have this program is because , um , you know , the fleet is getting older and we're trying to get new people to become fishermen. Right? And we want to support them. So that to me , something that's really interesting. And as a visual person , I could already imagine the different photos that that I would get right. We could get photos of the bay , we can get photos of all the fish and the fishermen themselves. And so I that's what interested me at first. And when we partnered with Deborah , um , the focus originally was to highlight the program and maybe follow the students as they go through training. But as we started to do some more reporting , um , we realized that , you know , there was facing basically some challenges with the program itself. Um , and so that's sort of the direction that we went towards. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And Deborah , and that's kind of where some of your focus looking at all these economic challenges you found. Tell us a little bit more about the backstory of what you ran into. Right.
S5: Right. So we as as Adriana said , we initially looked at this as a profile of this apprenticeship program , something where , um , younger people who wanted to get into fishing and maybe didn't have a family connection could get that training in that background that would allow them to make the leap onto these boats and become crew members and maybe eventually become captains themselves. But what we found was that the the apprenticeship itself was intended to fill some of these gaps , but it really revealed them in greater , in greater detail. Some of the issues that people faced were that the pay structure is kind of inconsistent , that you , that apprentices or crew members get paid a portion of the catch , so you don't know when you're going out , if there's going to be a windfall or next to nothing , there's not a guaranteed pay rate. And that's the same for the captains , but for crew members who are just starting out , they're in a particularly precarious situation where they don't know what they'll be making. They find that they also have to do additional work helping out before the fishing day starts. And that's oftentimes that's not paid. So there isn't a way to compensate people for the extra work of repairing nets or fixing lines or scraping barnacles off the hull of the boat. That's just part of their expected workload , but their pay depends entirely on what they catch. And so it's pretty inconsistent for a high cost of living city like San Diego , it's hard to make it work on that kind of income. Most people who do it oftentimes have other jobs , so they may be doing something else and moonlighting as a fisherman. And so and for the captains , it's also hard because they face additional insurance costs , bringing a new crew member on board. And they have to take time out of their fishing day to mentor them and explain things to them as they're going. They have to find a way to pay these people as they're learning the ropes. There's also other structural obstacles in the fishing industry. Fishermen have to get permits for almost anything they catch , and it's not certain that they'll get a permit for something that they want to fish for. They have to oftentimes apply repeatedly to get it. And some of those permits are held for years by people who aren't using them , but are holding them as an investment. So there's this barrier to entry to get into different fisheries for different types of fish that people want to fish for. And then even once you get a permit , the fishery might be closed. It might be closed that year , or you might start fishing and then it shuts down because of environmental conditions or because it's reached a limit. So there's a lot of luck involved that they have to count on.
S1: And Deborah , there's also a kind of a conservation piece to this. Many of the laws , I don't know , involving regulation of fishing from back in the 70s around improving conservation. But you say that some of those efforts in California may not be having the desired effect. Talk to me about conservation leakage and how that plays a role into this conversation about the state of our fishing industry today. Right.
S5: Right. So conservation leakage is the idea that we have strict regulations here in the US , federal regulations and state regulations here in California. We also have our marine reserves that put certain areas completely off limits to fishing. We have catch limits on different types of fish. They have , um , restrictions on how they can catch them. You know what kinds of nets and lines they can use in order to avoid bycatch of sea turtles or other animals they don't want caught in the nets. Those are all aimed at preserving a healthy ocean ecosystem. But they put greater restrictions on US fishermen than their counterparts in other countries and counter there are other countries that may be fishing for the same species , but under much lighter , more lenient regulations , so it's easier for them to catch a lot and less expensive. So when that's important to the US , it creates a competition against the local fishermen that puts them at a disadvantage.
S1: Adriana , you know , for this series , you went out to sea for a day with one local fisherman from this Scripps apprenticeship program. Tell us more about what you saw , what you experienced , and what you learned about fishing and what it takes.
S6: Yeah , So I went out with Shane , the welder , welding. Um , during a day when he went out fishing. Um , and the goal of the day was to catch , uh , uh , macro fish , which he specializes in , uh , but also yellowtail fish. And if you've eaten sushi before , you're probably familiar with yellowtail fish. Uh , so we , uh , basically met up , uh , in mission Bay early one morning , and we got on this boat. Uh , it was him , myself and his deckhand. Uh , destiny. Luis. Silvia. And we went out. The day was pretty cloudy to start off. The waves were a little bit rough. So the rider were. There was not , uh , the funnest , but. But we made it out to about seven miles off the coast of La Jolla. And right as we got to that area , Shane and Destiny got to work. They started putting out lines and basically catching macro , and Shane is constantly looking out in the distance as he's fishing. He is looking for the areas where birds are gathering , where he sees splashes in the water. Small splashes mean that's macro. Big splashes means it's yellowtail fish. So he is constantly moving , you know , from one direction to the other to see where he can catch the best fish. I think in at least in my mind , I always thought about fishing as , like a leisure activity where you sit there and you sort of just wait for a fish to come. Maybe you , you know , you drink a beer and you talk with a friend. But this is commercial fishing , and Shane has a , um , a background in sports fishing. So he moves quickly , and he wants to be in the areas where he is going to get the best catches.
S1: Well , and describe the boat you're on because you have these amazing photos. And one thing that stood out to me is we're not talking about a giant fishing , you know , with these huge nets. I mean , it's two people on a pretty , you know , describe what you saw. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. I should mention that the the boat itself was pretty tiny. It was pretty narrow. And , um , you know , it's it's like a similar to , like a sports fishing boat , um , where , you know , it sort of just it gets you where you need to go. Um , so there was enough room for three of us , and I sort of stayed at the edge of , uh , the boat , kind of like towards the front , just because I didn't want to get in the way of , um , Shane and and destiny as they started to fish. Um , and the ways were pretty rocky , right? The entire time the boat is rocking back and forth , you're getting wet. But that's , uh , that's.
S1: Part of the. Job.
S6: Job. Yeah , that's part of being a fisherman. Right? Being out at sea. Um , so throughout the day , they were catching various fishes. But the one that Shane really wanted to catch was obviously yellowtail fish. That's a bigger fish. Um , that , you know , at retail price , um , runs about two , $250 per fish. Um , which is around , I would say $13 a pound. Um , but those are harder fish to catch. They fight back , right? And they take a lot of muscle and energy to pull them in. And sometimes you have to also fend off against sea lions who are out there and maybe following your boat. And , you know , they obviously are hungry and they want fish as well. So , um , on this particular day , Shane and Destiney caught seven yellowtail fish , which , from what he tells me , is not that common for him. He told me that he's lucky if he gets 1 or 2 yellow tells in the day after he would hoist them up into the boat , he would basically go through this technique called shikigami. I might not be saying that right , but basically what that is , is that he kills the fish in a certain way , where he inserts a wire through the spine of the yellowtail fish , which basically kills it instantly and stops the fish from going into rigor mortis. And that preserves the texture and taste of the fish , right? It's also considered the most humane way to kill a fish , because the fish does not release , um , any hormones or any disorders that cause stress to it. So the fish is killed instantly. And in some of you know , as I saw it , you can see the fish sort of flap a couple of times before it finally dies. Um , so that process has to be done quickly. All the while you're still out there trying to find other fish , right? So it was definitely a really unique and fun experience.
S1: And Deborah , you mentioned this. You know , the financial instability or just not knowing , you know , how many fish you're going to get and how much money. It sounds like Adriana saw a pretty successful day there. But bringing it back to that financial piece. How much do fishermen like Shane make , and how much has that changed over the past decade or so? Right.
S5: Right. So we've seen , um , the pay for fishermen has actually declined over the past decade or so. Um , uh , From about I believe for crew that was about 75,000 , down to about 50,000 on average across the West coast. And for captains it was probably about 175 to 80,000 , down to a little over 100,000 now. Um , and that's across the West Coast in in San Diego. Some of my sources told me that a starting deckhand might , might make somewhere between 15,000 and 30,000 and move up to 50,000. Um , so the pay has gone down in actual dollars , according to , um , the labor statistics on this. It it's not just that it's not keeping up with inflation. It's actually lower now.
S1: And once Shane and Destiny are done fishing , their job is not over. Kind of goes to this next stage that you also write about Deborah. And that's where you know , the fish go once on land. Tell us more about how that process works and you know how they see a profit from that. I think at one point you describe Shane as something of a of a salesman as part of his job as well. Right. Exactly.
S5: Exactly. Yeah. And I wanted to know too , that , that when we're talking about the San Diego fishing boats , if you've seen something like Deadliest Catch and you've seen these big industrial fishing boats , that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about smaller boats. Maybe the most of them are in the 20 to 30 foot range , like Shane's with a captain and maybe 1 or 2 crew members. So they do everything. They do the boat repair , they repair the engines , they fix the gear , and they also do the sales and marketing. So they have a day when they have a big catch like this , like Adriana described. But then the next step is where they have to go deliver it to restaurants or go drop it off at markets. Or they might go to the Tuna Harbor Dockside market on Saturdays and sell their fish there. So there's this other part of their job that involves the sales , and Adriana mentioned that Shane was moving pretty quickly on the water. He also kind of hustles on the sales end. So he's worked out deals with a number of local restaurants that specialize in local seafood. And so he does weekly deliveries there. Um , so so they really have to have a number of skills beyond fishing in terms of marketing , business sales.
S1: And on that marketing piece. I mean , we hear this phrase farm to table a lot. I think we're more and more thinking about how we get our food , how it can be more sustainable. But that concept is not as well known when it comes to seafood. Why do you think that is? Deborah.
S5: Yeah , I'm not really sure. I'm. I think that maybe we're not as educated about where our seafood comes from. Most of us buy it at the grocery store or order sushi from a restaurant , and we're not really aware of the origins of that. And in fact , some of the the studies that have been done recently showed that only only a small fraction of our seafood is locally caught. One study showed that only about 8 to 10% of the seafood that's sold in Consumed in San Diego is locally caught. So there maybe isn't just as much attention or awareness of the sources of seafood , but I think there's a movement amongst some of the local chefs , fishermen and marine scientists to to call more attention to that. And so that's where the term pacific to plate or ocean to table comes from , where they're encouraging people to go to restaurants that specialize in local seafood , maybe expand their palate beyond just tuna and salmon to include other kinds of fish or even other kinds of seafood , like sea cucumbers or different kinds of snails that many of us don't eat on a regular basis , if at all. And to educate ourselves about the source of seafood and what we're buying and where it comes from. And so that applies to dining out , as well as the seafood you eat at home and cook on your barbecue or in your kitchen.
S1: So in this conversation around fishing and the state of the industry , I'm just wondering what , if anything , is being done to help make it easier to make a living here in San Diego?
S5: Well , one of the obstacles is , as we mentioned in this story , is that fishermen tend to be solitary by. By definition , you're out on the water on your own much of the time. And so it's I think it's a challenge for them to organize in their own interest , to go to Fish and game Commission meetings or legislative hearings to advocate for themselves and their their colleagues. But some of them are trying to do that. There is a group called Fisherman's Working Group. One of the founders of that , Peter Helm , was somebody we interviewed in the story and he said he's he's trying to work with fishermen not only from California , but from Oregon , Washington , Maine , Louisiana , other parts of the country , to come up with some solutions that might make the fishing industry more viable. So I don't know what those are yet , but I will be following up on that as soon as I hear more. So I know some of them have ideas about what could help make it work better. Some of the things we heard from people , just in terms of kind of smaller things , were for the fishing apprenticeship , for instance , if if the program could get grants to cover , for instance , the cost of insurance for the apprentices on these boats , or maybe cover a portion of their salary for a certain period of time , or their their share of the catch , their pay for a certain period of time that might help the captains onboard them a little more smoothly. I think people would like to see a little more consistency with the regulations and permits , but when I talked with the regulatory agencies , with California Fish and Wildlife and National Marine Fisheries with NOAA , I didn't get any information about any new changes that are in the works coming down the pipeline. So I'm not sure if if they are taking steps to address these issues or if that's incumbent on fishermen to to advocate for themselves and call for those things. I also did a quick check in our database , Digital Democracy , to see if there were any. There was any upcoming legislation addressing the fishing industry and seafood supply , and I didn't find it. That doesn't mean that nobody's doing it or thinking of it , but it doesn't seem to be on the forefront right now.
S1: Let's look a lot to follow up on , and we'll look for more of your reporting on that. I've been speaking with Deborah Sullivan Brennan. She is a Cal Matters reporter covering San Diego along with Adriana Valdez , assistant visuals editor with Cal Matters. And you can find their series about San Diego's fishing industry at Cal Matters. And we're going to have links to their stories and Adriana's really cool photos as well on our website at KPBS along with our show notes. Deborah. Adriana , thanks so much for being here.
S6: Thank you. Thank you for having us.
S5: Thank you Andrew.
S1: Up next , as World Cup fever continues , we hear about student reporting , asking questions about identity and access all around San Diego and soccer. Stay tuned. This is KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable , I'm Andrew Bracken. This summer's World Cup has had its share of memorable moments , from dramatic come from behind wins to Cinderella stories. Countries like to keep their day. Finding success in this tournament. But it's also been a time for many Mexican Americans to reflect on their heritage and identity. As both the U.S. and Mexico teams found success in the tournament this year and for many others. Also , the World Cup has just been a time to want to just grab a soccer ball and go out and play. Recently , students from San Diego State University reported on this year's World Cup and really how it's being felt and experienced in San Diego. I'm joined now by Sdsu student journalists Nico Padilla and Delaney Muscle. Nico Delaney , welcome. Hi.
S7: Hi. Welcome. Thank you for having us.
S1: So , Nico , you know your stories on the World Cup came out of a class both you and Delaney took part in. Tell us about it. And why you wanted to to take part in it? Yeah.
S7: Yeah. So it was a six week intensive class. We were there every day , Monday through Thursday. Um , we had a great time. We were just , you know , talking about the World Cup , seeing what was going on. Talking about where we're going to report down in San Diego how we connect the World Cup down to a local level. Um , I joined it. I grew up playing soccer. I've done some sports reporting here and there , but this is like my comeback. This was rewarding , so I was just excited to be there.
S1: And Delaney , you are interested in sports journalism particularly. What was your relationship to soccer in the World Cup before you started this project?
S8: Honestly not much. Growing up , I played soccer. I feel like that's the norm for a lot of kids. I quit in like fifth grade though. Wasn't my calling , but it was really common. Yeah. Experience.
S1: Experience. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. Yeah. Uh , it was really fun to get to kind of be hands on and focus on a new sport. Uh , now I feel like I'm so into the World Cup. I watch almost every single game. So it's been a lot of fun to get to learn something new and really play along well.
S1: And it's funny because we're having this conversation in the I don't know , we see we have a TV screen where there's a match going on right now that's pretty consequential. But , um , so you and your classmates , you works on a pair of stories here , and those can be found on KPBS. We'll link to those. But Nico , you , along with your colleagues , explored this question of identity here in our binational region. Why did you want to focus on fandom as a way to talk more about that.
S7: Yeah , I mean , I love soccer as much as the next person , but I like , you know , diving into community stories. I love hearing about people's history. Uh , for me personally , I'm , uh , Mexican-American. My family is from LA. My dad's from Pico Rivera area. My mom from Whittier area. Uh , I'm from Riverside. And for me , I think I've always battled this by national identity , similar to probably a lot of people down here in San Diego. And I wanted to explore that a little bit deeper. And I feel like throughout my story and talking to people throughout the region , I was able to connect and feel that same identity. And , you know , that gravitated towards Mexico as a lot of people down here do as well.
S1: Well , yeah. Let's talk more about it. First , I want to just hear a little bit , you know , there's a clip of you talking to one soccer fan in your reporting in his name is Rodriguez Peraza. And this was outside of the bar Fair Play in New York in North Park rather that's been doing watch parties for the World Cup. Yeah all of that.
S9: Even in San Diego , do you think San Diegan should be ruined for Mexico or USA? Depends on your cultural background. 100% of those people here are first generation immigrants , so I understand where they come from with their fandom. I think football is one of those things where there's a lot of factors that go into it. But absolutely , I think you can root for Mexico if you live here.
S1: So what? Yeah. Tell us more about the responses you got and the reactions to this question , because you just went around and said , are you rooting for the US or Mexico and why? Right. That was the main question you were looking to answer.
S7: Yeah , that was the main question I was asking , just like us or Mexico. And honestly , I was hearing a lot of Mexico , I didn't hear , I heard people saying , yeah , Mexico for sure. But um , when USA is on , I'm rooting for USA as well. And I think that should be , you know , the general consensus from people down here in San Diego. But , um , a lot of people were saying Mexico first. And I think that's something that ties into , you know , where they're from , their culture , their background. And I think that's something beautiful to to take into account.
S1: And another fan you talk with I think was a little bit more , I don't know , like struggling with that question and even pulled out his century pass and he was just explaining , you know , hey , it's like , you know , I live here. Live there. I mean , what did that experience telling you , hearing these views about it. What did that tell you about Mexican-American identity here in San Diego?
S7: No , it's it the identity runs deep here in San Diego. There's so many first generation Mexican Americans. And , uh , you know , people who have immigrated here have made a life here. But , you know , they still find their roots down in Mexico. I think that's important. It's important to look back at your family history. Um , I was talking to Christian Ramirez , Rodrigo's friend , and , um. Yeah , he said he said , you know , Mexico's my alma mater. I'm. I used to be a cross border student. I had my passport on me at all times. You know , I commute from , you know , TJ down to San Diego State , you know , just for work , for my livelihood. You know , it'd be against my own person to not root for Mexico , but also not to root for the USA. Right.
S1: Right. And it doesn't need to be an either or. Right. It's very interesting , Delaney. In your story , you and your classmates chose to put a lens , you know , to San Diego soccer culture. We know it's quite rich , but you kind of focus on , like , how it's played out on our , you know , in our parks , on our streets. Tell us more about the story you wanted to tell and what you learned along the way. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. So the World Cup , I mean , it's been a huge for soccer culture in America , specifically San Diego. The soccer culture is just huge here. Kind of like Nico story. It feels like we almost have two teams here in San Diego , which is such a blessing. Um , but.
S1: You FC and wave. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. Or even just America and Mexico rooting for them. Um , but yeah , it's been really fun. There's a huge presence. So we kind of were begging the question of , is all of this , uh , soccer hype and soccer buzz going to bring more access to those people who live in San Diego who are wanting to pursue soccer? Um , because I know that after the 1994 World Cup in the United States. The MLS kind of blew up here. And so it kind of begs the question of is that going to happen again? And what's the aftermath of this World Cup going to look like for soccer access here?
S1: Yeah , and there have been a lot of discussions , you know , about how youth soccer , you talked about your own experience playing soccer. But I think a lot of people in questioning calling it sort of like a pay to play model. But it's interesting because soccer in itself , you know , they call it the world's game , right? It is accessible in that you kind of just need a ball to get going. But here in the US , it's you paint a much more complicated picture around park access elsewhere. How did that play out in the story?
S8: I mean , yeah , people really just told the story of how important having that access is , having updated fields where , you know , gates are open all the time. We talked to a college student who plays at the Division one level , and he talked about how much having a accessible field five minutes from his house just eliminated those barriers that he needed to take to that next level. And then we also talked to people who play just more for fun. They play like street football and just how having those spaces nearby them , where the community can come together and they can blow off all that stress. It really does just make their life so much better. So , I mean , not only does it matter professionally , but it's so big and such an important part of the community.
S1: Yeah , and you kind of introduce us to the football is sort of like this version of , of , of , of soccer , but it's like played in a smaller space where you actually don't need grass. Right. Tell us more about about that sport. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. I mean , it's so cool to watch. We went to Chicano Park and Barrio Logan , and we got to see one of the bigger leagues there. There's no fee or anything. You kind of just bring your own shoes. You show up. And it was really cool to see pretty big crowd turnout. You line up and when it's your turn , I think 3 or 4 people go on their court and you play until you score , really. And it's kind of like winter stays on. But it was so cool to see all of these people , you know , they show up alone by themselves and they're just immediately welcomed into this community , as if they've known all these people for years. I think it was such a good example of just how important soccer culture here is.
S1: And what did you learn about soccer in the course of reporting on this story? I'm wondering if each have sort of takeaways that you're going to , you know , that'll stay with you after the World Cup ends?
S8: I mean , it really is , like you said , the world's game. I think that having the opportunity to be in this class and be at all these street football , or just talk to players or even attending watch parties , watching how this sport , just united people is awesome. It's been so cool and it feels really awesome to just be a part of it now. And I've definitely grown a love of for soccer myself.
S1: Nico , we were talking earlier and you know , both the US and Mexico are out. But I have to say , you know , Mexico played just a dramatic. I think a lot of people call it a classic soccer game , you know , and this was Sunday night and or Sunday evening and I think just so many people go out on the streets , you'd see Mexican flags , the green jerseys. Right? Um , you know , talk to me about and I know you went to , like , a large watch party earlier in the tournament. Yeah. Um , where where where Mexico played. Um , but , yeah. Just talk to me about your takeaways and what you're thinking about the sport and its impact here.
S7: Soccer is so. It's so much fun. I mean , you it's easy to watch. It's easy to cheer for. Um , I did a lot of my watch parties. Alex from Mexico down in Chula Vista. Um , I went to Third Avenue when they had the huge watch party. There was over 25,000 people there. A sea of green. I mean , you look out and it's at least for me , it seems like a huge family party. I mean , there's like , food trucks. There's people drinking in the streets , which , I mean , is it allowed? But I mean , people are having a good time. There was people everywhere afterwards. They had a banda and they kept the party going even until after the the band stopped playing. I mean , there was a bar , I want to say La Patrona. And they had like some like. Grandfather , abuela , whatever you want to call him. He was like singing his heart out to karaoke. And the whole street was like , you know , dancing , having a good time. And then sadly , when Mexico lost on Sunday , I was back in Chula Vista again. And , you know , people brought their stuff to celebrate , you know , in anticipation. And sadly , they did lose. But , you know , people were still out on the streets , you know , the cop cars were out there. They're saying , you know , get out the street. And no one , no one cared. People were dancing. People were lighting off fireworks , throwing people into the air. And I think that sense of pride that they still had after their loss , you know , says a lot about their culture , says a lot about , you know , just the fans of the World Cup , you know , it's an honor to play in the World Cup. You know , not every country gets to do it every time it comes around. And the fact that , you know , Mexico and the USA made it this far as a host country , I think that's something to be proud of.
S1: Well , you can find more coverage on the World Cup at our website , KPBS , and we'll have a link to both Nico and Delaney's stories there. I've been speaking with San Diego State student journalists Nico Padilla , along with Delaney Muscle. Thanks so much for being here.
S8: Thank you so much.
S1: That'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thanks so much for listening. And to all my guests joining today. If you have any thoughts on today's show , you can always email us at roundtable at KPBS or leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producers branded Truffaut show was produced by Ashley Rush. Brooke Rooth is roundtable senior producer , and I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again. Have a great weekend. See you next time.
