THIS IS KPBS MIDDAY AND MISSION -- MIDDAY EDITION. I AM MAUREEN CAVANAUGH. EVERY TIMES -- EVERY TIME YOU USE OCCUR CUT, YOU CAN THANK DISABLED AMERICANS FOR THAT CONVENIENCE. 25 YEARS AGO THIS MONTH THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT WAS SIGNED THE LAW BANNED EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE DISABLED AND MANDATED ACCESS TO GOVERNMENT SERVICES AND PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS. ALL CELEBRATING THE ADA'S ACHIEVEMENTS, DISABLED ACTIVISTS ARE NOTING WHAT STILL NEEDS TO BE DONE TO PROVIDE EQUAL ACCESS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HERE IN SAN DIEGO. JOINING ME ARE LEWIS FRIPP, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ACCESS TO INDEPENDENCE AND LEWIS, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM CINDY JONES IS HERE AND THE FORMER PUBLISHER OF MAIN STREAM. THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME CINDY AND LEWIS USE WHEELCHAIRS TO GET AROUND. CINDY, YOU ARE IN WASHINGTON DC AT THE FINDINGS OF THE ADA BACK IN 1980. WHAT WERE THE HOPES FOR THE LEGISLATION AT THAT TIME? WE HOPED AMERICA WOULD BE MORE LIBERATING FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. HE WOULD HAVE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT AND THAT YOU COULD GO TO A MOVIE THEATER AND GO TO A BAR OR A RED STRIP -- A RESTAURANT OR A PADRE GAME. IN THE OLD DAYS YOU COULDN'T SIT NEXT TO SOMEONE YOU CAME WITH. AND NOW THE STADIUM HAS EQUAL SEATING AND YOU CAN SEE THE GAME BECAUSE IN THE OLD DAYS IF THERE IS A GOOD PLAY AND EVERYONE STANDS UP AND NOW YOU'RE SEEING THE BACKS OF PEOPLE. SO THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT. BASICALLY ALLOWING PEOPLE TO LIVE THEIR LIFE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE WHAT DISABILITIES ARE COVERED BY THE ADA? EVERYTHING. THAT IS THE KEY. AND WHEN WE WERE WORKING ON GETTING IT PASSED THE MANTRA WAS EVERYBODY IS INCLUDED WE THINK THE PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS, THERE'S ALSO COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT AND EMOTIONAL DISABILITIES AND IN FACT SOME OF THE 1st LAWSUITS THAT MADE IT TO THE SUPREME COURT WERE ABOUT HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. YOU DON'T THINK HIGH PRESSURE -- HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE IS A DISABILITY BUT IT CAN BE AND PEOPLE ARE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IT. SO WHEN WE PASSED IT HE ENVISIONED A BROAD SCOPE OF AMERICANS, REALLY EVERY AMERICAN THAT EVENTUALLY WILL BECOME DISABLED, AS YOU AGE YOU BECOME DISABLED. SO ACTUALLY, EVERYONE IS COVERED LEWIS? I WAS GOING TO SAY LIKE ANY LAW ONCE IT'S PASSED ITS -- THE LAW GETS TESTED AND REFINED AND AT TIMES THE LAW HAS EXPANDED ITS VIEW OF DISABILITIES ONCE A LOG IT PASSED SORT OF THE BEGINNING AND MANY OF US THOUGHT WELL, WE'VE GOT THIS LAW PASSED IN SO NOW WE HAVE THIS CIVIL RIGHTS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE BUT IT WAS REALLY ALSO THE BEGINNING OF THE WHOLE MOTHER PHASE OF OUR WORK TO MAKE THAT LAW BECOME REAL AND FOR THINGS TO EVOLVE. IT WASN'T SIMPLY PASSING A LAW BECAUSE OF HOW BUSINESSES HAVE TO DO CERTAIN THINGS AND PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS. AND EVEN 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, IT'S AN ONGOING PROCESS OF EDUCATION AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL STOP. I HOPE IT DOES NOT CINDY GAVE A SORT OF AN IDEA OF WHAT LIFE WAS LIKE BEFORE THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT. YOU WERE INJURED BEFORE THE ADA CAME INTO EFFECT GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT IT WAS LIKE? I WILL GIVE YOU WHAT I THINK IS AN INTERESTING STORY. MY DISABILITY HAPPENED IN 1977. I WAS IN AN AUTOMOBILE LIKE THAT AND I WENT TO THE ORGANIZATION THAT I RUN AND STARTED GETTING SERVICES BEFORE HE LEFT THE REHAB CENTER. I GOT SOME ATTENDANT CARE AND IN-HOME ASSISTANCE. TURNS OUT THE GUY THAT WAS HELPING ME HIS SISTER WORKED THEIR AND SHE HELPED PEOPLE GET JOBS. SO THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT WAS 1980 I WAS ABLE TO GO GET A JOB AND SO I WENT TO WORK IN EARLY 1981 AND WHILE THE ADA HAD NOT BEEN PASSED THERE WERE SOME BUSES THAT WERE ACCESSIBLE. HERE I WAS, A YOUNG GUY, RECENTLY DISABLED, NEW JOB AND ALL EXCITED IN I ROLLED THE FIVE OR SIX BLOCKS AND THEY WAIT FOR THE BUS AND THE BUS DRIVER ROLLS UP AND AS HE DOES HE ROLLS HIS EYES IN THE KINDEST LOWERS HIS HEAD LIKE OH, MY GOD AND THE DOORS DID NOT OPEN PROPERLY, THE RAMPANT DID NOT DEPLOY. PEOPLE WE'RE GETTING UPSET BECAUSE IT WAS DELAYING THEIR RIDE. LONG STORY SHORT WAS MY 1st RIDE ON MY 1st DAY AT WORK WITH THE PERSON WITH THE DISABILITY WAS A VERY BAD EXPERIENCE BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY DID NOT WORK AND PEOPLE WERE NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS IS BACK IN 1981. NOW, EVERY BUS HAS ACCESSIBILITY AND TROLLEYS AND SO FORTH. AND SO BEFORE THE ADA WAS PASSED THERE WERE MANY BARRIERS. THE THINGS YOU TALK ABOUT LIKE CURB CUTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT I'D ASKED FOR EXAMPLES -- EXCELLENT EXAMPLES OF UNIVERSE ELT CINDY YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND STARTED A MAGAZINE CALLED MAINSTREAM AND MANY DISABLED AMERICANS WERE NOT IN THE MAINSTREAM. DID MANY DISABLED PEOPLE JUST STAY HOME? YES. YOU HAVE TO THINK THAT THEY WANT PUBLIC BATHROOMS THAT WERE ACCESSIBLE. YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO NOT NEED A BATHROOM UNTIL YOU RETURNED HOME AND THE BUSES WERE VERY SPOTTY. VERY FEW IN THOSE DAYS AND EVEN WHEN WE STARTED IN 1976 AND ACTUALLY IN THE DAILY TRANSCRIPT HOLDING DOWNTOWN AND WE COULD NOT CROSS THE STREET. THERE WAS ONE DRIVEWAY ON THE WHOLE BLOCK SO YOU WOULD GO DOWN ON ONE BLOCK AND THEN WHERE DO YOU GO? YOU COULDN'T CROSS THE STREET BASICALLY THE ADA EVEN IF HE JUST KEEP IT HERE HAS BEEN TRANSFORMATIVE? USUALLY. CINDY TALKED ABOUT THE BALLPARK, FOR EXAMPLE. I THINK IT WAS IN 2001 THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO WAS SUED BY A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY FOR LACK OF ACCESSIBILITY -- ACCESSIBILITY AND BY EXTENSION BASEBALL TEAMS WERE PULLED IN. FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE LONG TIME SAN DIEGO AND SCUM -- LONGTIME SAN DIEGO PEOPLE AND VERY WISELY THE PADRES -- NOT WISELY THAT THEY HIRED ME BUT THEY WISELY HIRED SOMEONE FROM THE DISABLED COMMUNITY NOT ONLY TO ENSURE THAT THE BALLPARK WAS ACCESSIBLE TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGNS BUT THAT WE USE REAL EFFORT TO BRING THE COMMUNITY INVOLVES -- INVOLVEMENT IN THE PADRES WERE VERY SMART AND BRINGING THE ENTIRE DISABLED COMMUNITY TOGETHER AND THEY WERE SOME VERY HEATED DISCUSSIONS WITH TWO OR 300 PEOPLE. THE REALITY IS IT WAS DISCUSSED -- A DISCUSSION AND A PROCESS IN THE PADRES HONORED THE COMMUNITY AND NOW WE HAVE A BALLPARK THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL IN THE COUNTRY. IT'S BECAUSE THEY MADE IT UP BALLPARK FOR EVERYBODY CINDY, WHERE WOULD YOU SAY THE ADA HAS NOT LIVED UP TO IT'S PROMISE BACK. I THINK EMPLOYMENT IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE. THERE ARE STATISTICS THAT THEY ONLY 20%% OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES WHO WANT TO WORK AND NOT THOSE CORE CONTENT WITH NOT WORKING BUT 27% OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WORK HAVE JOBS AND SO THE EMPLOYMENT PIECE HAS BEEN VERY, VERY DIFFICULT BOTH TO ENFORCE AND TO GET TRACTION ON TRACTION ON, YES AND THAT STATISTIC IS CHANGE VERY LITTLE IN THE LAST 40 YEARS. IT IS AN UNBELIEVABLY -- YOU TALK ABOUT 15, 20, 40% UNEMPLOYMENT, WE ARE TALKING 70% UNEMPLOYMENT AMONG PEOPLE THAT WANT TO GO BACK TO WORK AND HAVE DISABILITIES IS IT BECAUSE THE EMPLOYERS DON'T HAVE ACCESSIBLE PREMISES OR IS IT DISCRIMINATION? I THINK IT'S BOTH BUT WHEN JOHN DID A PIECE ON THIS ABOUT 10 OR 15 YEARS AGO HE SHOWED THAT SOMEONE WITH A SUPERIOR RESUME WAS NOT HIRED AND HE PUT THEM IN AN INTERVIEW SITUATION WITH FOUR OTHER PEOPLE WHOSE RESUMES WHO WERE INFERIOR TO THIS ONE-PERSON AND HE DID THIS ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS. I WOULD SAY DISCRIMINATION IS A BIG DEAL AND ATTITUDES. PEOPLE THING -- THINK IF I HIRED THEM, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO HELP THEM WITH EVERYTHING IN INSTEAD OF SAYING OH, THEY ARE GOOD AT THIS. WHAT ARE THEY GOOD THAT? A LOT OF TIMES WHEN YOU GO IN THEY SAY WHAT CAN'T YOU DO. MOST PEOPLE ASK WHAT CAN YOU NOT TO BUT WHEN YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY AND THEY WANT TO UNDERSTAND AND RATHER THAN FOCUS ON EQUALITY AND SKILL SOMETIMES THAT IS NOT THE THING THAT IS FOCUSED ON ON JUST A QUICK EDITION IF I COULD. THE REALITY IS AS -- THE REALITY IS AS LONG AS YOU CAN PERFORM THE ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS OF THE JOB THEN YOU SHOULD BE QUALIFIED. I CAN'T BE A CONTRACTOR BUT THE ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS OF THE JOB, AS LONG AS THOSE COULD BE PERFORMED IT SHOULD BOIL DOWN TO NOTHING MORE THAN THAT. A LOT OF EDUCATION NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE SO THAT EMPLOYERS -- THERE ARE ALSO INTERESTING STATISTICS THAT ONCE THEY KNOW HOW TO GET THERE IN THE WORKS FOR THEM AND THEY KNOW WHAT THE BATHROOMS ARE LIKE IN THE TRANSIT AND ONCE YOU HAVE THAT STUFF DOWN IT'S IMPORTANT INCONSISTENCY IS IMPORTANT. PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVE TO PLAN AND PREPARE IN WAYS THAT MOST FOLKS DON'T. THOSE ARE SKILL SETS THAT ARE OFTENTIMES OVERLOOKED. I THINK EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT IN GETTING PEOPLE TO REALIZE THAT -- THERE ARE STILL GAPS IN SAN DIEGO. I WORKED IN A BUILDING THAT HAD A BATHROOM STALL ON THE 2nd FLOOR BUT THEY HAD NO ELEVATOR SO THERE WAS NO WAY THAT ANYONE WITH A DISABILITY COULD ACTUALLY ACCESS THE BATHROOM. DO YOU FIND WEIRD THINGS LIKE THAT TOO REX. THERE IS A BATHROOM IN HILLCREST AND I KNOW SOMEONE -- THE BUILDER WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING AT THE TOILET IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM AND YOU CAN'T REACH THE TOILET PAPER BECAUSE THEY SAID IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE 24 INCHES FROM THE WALL AND IT WAS THE WRONG LAW THEY THINK THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CODE IS OR HOW IT IS LAID OUT AND THEY BUILD IT WHAT THEIR PERCEPTION IS BUT THEY GET IT WRONG WRONG WHEN SOMEONE RUNS INTO WHEN THAT THESE GAPS, WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO ADDRESS IT? THE 1st THING SOMEONE SHOULD DO IS TALK TO THE MANAGER AND THEY THIS WOULD BE BETTER IF YOU THOUGHT THIS THROUGH A LITTLE BIT. I WOULD SAY MOST PEOPLE THAT WORKS. AND A LOT OF COMPANIES ARE SMALL BUSINESSES ARE UNDER THE WIRE AS FAR AS ECONOMICS. BUT OVER TIME THOSE THINGS SHOULD BE DEALT WITH. IT'S BEEN 25 YEARS. IT'S NOT LIKE YOU HAVE TO PAY EVERYTHING TODAY AND YOU PROBABLY WANT TO REMODEL YOUR BATHROOM EVERY 25 YEARS. SO THE 1st THING YOU DO IS ASK THE MANAGER OWNER AND THEN YOU CAN ESCALATE UP. MOST PEOPLE REALLY DO NOT WANT TO BE LITIGIOUS ON THESE ISSUES BUT IT IS HARD. WHAT DO YOU DO? UNFORTUNATELY WITH THE ADA, LITIGATION IS ONE OF THE ONLY ENFORCEMENT TOOLS. WE CAN'T CALL THEM THE POLICE -- WE CAN'T CALL THE POLICE AND SAY WRITE A TICKET. THAT WOULD BE PREFERABLE AND THEY'RE COURSES BEEN A LOT OF NEGATIVITY IN PAST YEARS ABOUT THAT WHOLE SORT OF WHOLESALE LAWSUIT ISSUE THAT MANY OF US HAVE BEEN AWARE OF. YES, THE PLOT IS A TOOL BUT LIKE ANYTHING IT CAN BE USED APPROPRIATELY OR INAPPROPRIATELY LEWIS, BOTH YOU AND CINDY HAVE TALKED ABOUT EDUCATION. EDUCATION FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE DISABILITIES, YET. [ LAUGHTER ] AND TO BE MORE AWARE OF WHAT IT MEANS FOR ACCESS. HOW DO YOU GET THAT INFORMATION AND EDUCATION? IF I CAN MAKE A PLUG FOR MY ORGANIZATION THAT IS A LOT OF WHAT WE DO. OUR 1st -- WHILE OUR PURPOSE IS TO SERVE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, WE HAVE AN EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM AND HELP PEOPLE FIND HOUSING AND ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY AND A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS BUT WE ALSO DO A LOT OF COMMUNITY EDUCATION. OUR STAFF SPEAK TO SCHOOLS AND KIDS AND GO TO THE UNIVERSITIES AND SPEAK TO CLASSES THAT DEAL WITH DISABILITY AND WE MEET AND WE ARE ON COMMITTEES. CINDY AND I HAVE BEEN ON VARIOUS COMMITTEES. THE MAYOR'S COMMITTEE ON DISABILITY AND AMONG THOSE TYPES OF THINGS AND IT'S JUST AN ONGOING PROCESS. ADVOCACY AS A RULE AND EDUCATION IS THE SAME THING. IT'S CONSTANTLY GETTING THE WORD OUT THERE. CONTACT OUR ORGANIZATION AND HOPEFULLY THE CONTACT INFORMATION AND WEB ADDRESS CAN BE PUT IN THEIR THEIR. WE ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS ON A DAILY BASIS. OFTENTIMES IT IS A FAMILY MEMBER OR A FRIEND OR WHATEVER THAT'S TRYING TO HELP SOMEBODY NEEDS INFORMATION. WE ARE VERY MUCH A PLACE FOR INFORMATION TO RECEIVE INFORMATION WE ARE TODAY CELEBRATING THE 25th ANNIVERSARY OF THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT. WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE DISABLED COMMUNITY 25 YEARS FROM NOW? LET ME START WITH YOU, CINDY. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOUNG PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES MORE ACTIVE IN MAINTAINING THEIR RIGHTS. IT'S SIMILAR TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS COMMUNITY AND EVERYONE SAID IT WAS GOOD AND THEY LEAD IT BACK SLIDE A LITTLE BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD AT DONE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE YOUNG PEOPLE REALLY CLAIM THEIR RIGHTS TO THE IN THE COMMUNITY LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. I CAN SEE IN 25 YEARS FROM NOW PEOPLE WITH GOOD PAYING JOBS AND HOUSES THAT THEY CAN GET INTO AND THAT THEY CAN VISIT THEIR NEIGHBOR. YOU MIGHT MAKE YOUR HOUSE ACCESSIBLE BUT YOUR NEIGHBOR IS NOT ACCESSIBLE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OPENNESS IN SOCIETY AND COMMUNITY. BRIEFLY, LEWIS? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A WORLD WHERE DISABILITY IS NOT AN ISSUE. OUR GOAL AND I THINK OUR LIVES GOALS HAVE EVOLVED AROUND INCREASING OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE THAT -- FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. ALL WE WANT IS A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A WORLD WHERE COLOR INABILITY TO DISABILITY AND ALL OF THAT STUFF IS IRRELEVANT I'VE BEEN SPEAKING WITH LOUIS FRICK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TO ACCESS TO INDEPENDENCE AND CINDY JONES OF FORMER PUBLISHER OF MAINSTREAM MAGAZINE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH THANKS FOR HAVING US.
When former President George H.W. Bush signed the Americans With Disabilities Act into law on July 26, 1990, he said, "Let the shameful wall of exclusion finally come down."
It's been 25 years since the act was signed, and improvements in accessibility are evident. Curb cuts, bus lifts and restrooms with doors wide enough to accommodate wheelchairs are a common sight all over San Diego County.
"We hoped America would become more liberating for people," Cyndi Jones, a longtime advocate, told KPBS Midday Edition on Monday. "There's been a lot of improvements."
But after 25 years, ADA violations are high, she said.
"You could file a lawsuit every day if you wanted to because so many businesses are not compliant," Jones said.
The unemployment rate among disabled Americans is also high. The Bureau of Labor Statistics released a report in June that showed only 17 percent of people with a disability were employed in 2014.
Louis Frick, executive director of the San Diego nonprofit Access to Independence, said he hopes the law acts as the first step in a number of improvements.
"Like any law, once it's passes, it gets tested. It gets refined," Frick said. "Even 25 years down the road it's an ongoing process of education. I don't think it will ever stop."
