S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Brackett. Today we're coming to you live from Comic-Con to bring you all the latest. Local reporters. Tell us more about what's happening at and around Comic-Con this year. Plus , we talk all about how pop culture media coverage has embraced the fandom surrounding it.
S2: The relationship that people form to the fictional universe is what they love is can be one of the most meaningful things in their lives.
S1: And for San Diego's storytellers , how one time art rivals became longtime friends through love of comics. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. Today marks the second official day of Comic-Con. Earlier this week , San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria announced that the pop culture convention will be staying in San Diego through 2030. I'm joined now by two local journalists covering the con this year. Philip molnar is the senior business reporter with the San Diego Union Tribune. At least for 51 weeks a year , the 52nd , he kind of transitions into adding Comic-Con to his beat. Also with us is Juliana Domingo. She's a producer here with KPBS on Midday Edition roundtable. There's a lot of arts coverage here with us. Philip Giuliano , welcome. Thank you for having us.
S3: Yeah , thanks for having us.
S1: It's great to have you here. I know we were just talking about everybody's feeling a little the second day. Exhaustion starting to set in , maybe. Um , Phil , I want to start with you. With the news that happened before this year's con , and that's that San Diego will remain the home for Comic-Con for at least a few more years. Yeah. That's correct.
S4: They've signed a contract through 2030 , which is nice because in the past couple of years they've done two year contracts , so this was a little bit nicer. The bigger rub for the whole negotiations with the city and organisers was getting discounted room nights for Comic-Con attendees , so the base of the whole agreement was 14,000 room nights for attendees at discounted rates. That was the negotiation. So once that was settled , they were able to sign the contract and go through 2030.
S1: What about. I mean , so it wasn't about the convention center being expanded. We hear about that every year. It seems like. Right.
S4: Right. For so many years , the big rub every year was Comic-Con saying , we need to expand the convention center. If we don't , we can , you know , we're at could become irrelevant. We need to sell more tickets. So many more people want to come. So that was the big fight every year that we heard about. But the last couple of years they've kind of scaled that back. And they they barely mention it. It's mostly mostly about the discounted room nights , which is what have been the heart of the negotiations.
S1: Got it. So , you know , I want to skip ahead here. Julianna , um , I'll start with you. You both have been covering Comic-Con for a while now. What do you find find that resonates most with readers? With viewers?
S5: Yeah , I think , you know , being a local journalist in San Diego , you're just , um , and also having covered a lot of arts and culture at KPBS. Um , you know , naturally , we're just more kind of connected to the arts community here in San Diego. And so I think that presents a really great opportunity to highlight the artists who , you know , end up participating in Comic Con , the artists and the creators and the actors and the filmmakers and all those sorts of things. And , um , I feel like that , you know , those really local stories are what really resonates with local audiences. And , you know , yesterday , actually , in Midday Edition , KPBS arts reporter Beth Accomando , we talked to her a bit about the story she did on Now or Never comics and how they've been preparing for the convention. Um , they're based in , in downtown. And I think those are the types of stories that don't also get as much as highlighted in national coverage. So I think that's also kind of a , you know , it's just a good opportunity to really highlight those local stories. And and I'm hoping that's the that's what the audience is too , that , you know , we have are looking for. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And later in the show actually we're going to hear from some local comic creators just about how integral San Diego is to two comics here. Um , Philip , what about you? I mean , how do you approach covering Comic-Con differently than maybe a national journalist coming in , get in a hotel for a few nights? Right.
S4: Right. Well , we found at the paper that our readers are mainly interested in what's happening outside the convention. If we do anything about some big panel or something like that , they won't read it. So our main focus is what's happening outside the convention. We always do a big story on the wraps , going around all the buildings , the technically illegal wraps for all the shows , uh , the wraps around the trolleys. And then our big story yesterday was writing about the activations that are all around Comic-Con , where you don't need a badge , but you might have to wait in line like 6 to 8 hours in the sun , and I don't know if it's worth it.
S1: You mentioned that in your story on activations , the 6 to 8 hours. I mean , there's a lot of cool opportunities though , right? I mean , yeah , like for free. And these are again , no badge needed. Right.
S4: Right. Right. Yeah. It's it's funny , I was talking with a colleague last night. We were trying to come up with what scenario? We would wait in line for eight hours. And I came up with the most elaborate Comic-Con things , and I'm like , you know what? I would get in line , but probably after two hours , I'd just leave. I just couldn't do it.
S1: So what do you suggest? I mean , what do you eat? Like both suggest maybe someone doesn't have never been to Comic-Con. Doesn't have a badge. What would you suggest they check out this weekend?
S3: Yeah , I think , I mean , I , I.
S5: Grew up going to Comic-Con , but even before I started attending , I just , I immersed myself in , you know , the atmosphere of it all , like just being in downtown , just being in Gaslamp Quarter , you kind of already feel it. And so , um , you know , of course some planning has to , you know , go into if you want to line up for activations , you gotta I have my notifications turned on for the different lines and everything like that. So that's how I sort of keep up. But , um , really , if someone I think is just wanting to to feel the pop culture atmosphere , then , you know , just kind of step into it and , um , you know , just try to , uh , you know. People.
S3: People.
S5: Watch do that.
S1: Thing , people watching , and we're getting a little of that pop culture atmosphere right now. Yes.
S4: Small child dressed as Spider-Man yelling , oh , no! Excuse me. Mario.
S1: Um , Philip , what about you? Any suggestions for folks that may be hesitant? You know , because again , it's there's a lot of crowds. It's it's hot. Right? Yeah.
S4: So I think the people watching is fantastic down here. There's lots of opportunities to take photos outside things. And even there are some marketers handing out things like today they're handing out a Daily Bugle newspaper , which is the newspaper that Spider-Man works at. So there you can get these free things. I just don't really see the lines being worth it. I will say one thing different. I did a Green Lantern activation , which is on J Street across a Petco Park. It's one of the best ones I've ever been to. You can tell they spend thousands on it. Reservations are sold out , but there is a standby line. You get a metal Green Lantern ring at the end. It was incredible.
S1: Oh , wow. That's cool to check out. Julianna , what are you most looking forward to?
S5: Oh my gosh. Well , there are a lot of panels that I want to check out that are coming up. There's this Resident Evil activation that I've been wanting to go to. I think it's like a discord collaboration , but all the slots are , um , booked. But I think that's also why it's important to keep updated. Updated. Look up , you know , if there's a specific off site or thing that you want to check out. Um , just to make sure that you can make it to to whatever you're wanting to go to.
S1: Well , we'll include some links to to Philips latest story on the activations and some other , you know , some tips for folks. Um , I've been speaking with San Diego Union-Tribune , Philip molnar , along with KPBS producer Juliana Domingo. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you. Happy Comic-Con. Up next , along with all of the fantasy worlds and stories that fans connect with. It's also come with it a genre of podcasts analyzing them. We'll talk more about it next. This is KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. San Diego is the epicenter of the pop culture world right now. Movie stars , cosplayers , comic creators , and of course , pop culture fans have descended on downtown San Diego for this year's Comic-Con , and the media that cover pop culture are here as well. Mallory Rubin is a leading voice covering the pop culture world today. She's the co-host of the podcast House of R and Director of Content with The Ringer. In her work , Mallory and her colleagues break down fantasy worlds like HBO's Game of Thrones , Star Wars , and Lord of the rings. Keeping track of all the shocking plot twists and cliffhangers along the way , I got a chance to speak with Mallory Thursday afternoon. Here's that conversation. You're known through your work on podcasts like Binge Mode , Talk , The Thrones , and House of R. You know , they take pop culture shows , movies and really kind of you break them down. I think kind of like a book club , right? Yeah. Um , how did that become the approach you wanted to take covering pop culture?
S2: Great question.
S6: I think , you know , without spending six years recounting my entire personal history , which I don't think is the mission or objective today. It actually started for me back when I was working at Sports Illustrated. My first podcasting experience ever was on a college football podcast called the Mandel Initiative , and I was editing college football. One of the writers I was editing was hosting that pod. But we both loved lost and it was the final season of lost. And he said , do you want to spend like ten minutes talking about lost at the end of this pod every week? And we did it. I was reading the Jeff Jensen Doc Jensen columns on EAW back in the day. You know , every single column was a treatise on how every frame of every episode carried some significant meaning. I was just like , you can do this , you can do this , right? And I was doing that with sports. But I have such a passion for pop culture that the idea of being able to marry those things was what led me ultimately to Grantland. And then , you know , the ringer after that , when I started doing Game of Thrones coverage at Grantland and then The Ringer , it just became a really natural thing to go from engaging with something in a ten minute pod hit into full depth and comprehension. You know , when Jason and I first started doing binge mode , Game of Thrones , the objective was let's catch up on the first six seasons of Game of Thrones before season seven. And when you go back and look at the runtimes of those early episodes that are quite a bit shorter than where we wound up , and then where we are for House of Are. But , you know , a lot of the mission of The Ringer is around the hang and been the sensibility and the spirit. You know expert but approachable is something we talk about a lot and a lot of people. Podcast about Game of Thrones , a lot of people podcast about football and basketball. So we're trying to do something that feels like authentic to us and our desire to talk about and , you know , inhabit a universe we love , but also something that allows the people who love that as much as we do to feel that enthusiasm.
S1: And I think , you know , in your work you don't shy away from your fandom at all. Like , that's kind of a core piece. You mentioned how you started in sports. You know , like sports fandom is its own crazy world. Yeah , right. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. Let's go. Okay , maybe this is the year. Yeah.
S1: You're in Padres territory right now. Okay , so we have separate problems.
S6: My beloved Manny Machado , my one of my favorite Orioles ever.
S1: That's right. Yeah. You know , how do you approach coverage of sports versus covering Game of Thrones?
S6: I think that at The Ringer , A couple things are true at once. Every host , every writer , every producer , every editor brings their own taste and perspective and point of view. You know , it's a very host forward network. And so I think the answer to that question would probably be a little bit person to person. But I think it's also true that there is a through line of like an ethos , right , where we want to route everything we do in an obsession and passion , and then pair that with hopefully the most elevated analysis and commentary. So whether it is , you know , I think sports and pop culture are the the to use a Cersei Lannister ism. A high sparrow is.
S1: Ready with the game.
S6: Back in the day , you know the twin pillars of of what we do. But increasingly we do a lot of other things at the Ringer as well. You know , we have national affairs coverage. We have food coverage. And the the connective tissue between all of those is is it good? Are we interested in it? Do we think we can do it? Well , whether it's college football or Marvel.
S1: You mentioned lost as being like a big kind of inspiration for the sort of like recap , you know , culture that , that your work is known for , but also how we watch shows and how we watch movies. It's changed quite a bit since , say , you know , the years of lost. Um , that's sort of like appointment viewing of television has gone away. Maybe it's coming back , I don't know , but , you know , things are just released so much differently with streaming and all that. How do you think that's changed the types of stories being told today?
S6: Well , that's an interesting question. I mean , I think we're in peak TV streaming era and internet era , everybody being hyper online all the time. And so I don't know your question about how it changes what's being made is a really interesting one. I'm more inclined to answer the other side of it , maybe , which is like , how is it being consumed? Because I think the how is it being made is there's a glut of it , and people are trying to put out everything they can all the time. Right. On a , on a fundamental level , like everything's IP , The Marvel machine will churn until people say we don't want it to churn anymore , and that they will have to say that for it to stop , right. So I think the in the input side , it's let's make more in terms of how it's received. I think that the idea of monoculture is increasingly rare , non-existent. You know , I think that was one of the things that made Game of Thrones the original Game of Thrones series so unique and kind of the last version of that thing. You know , even something like House of the Dragon or Knight of the Seven Kingdoms the Throne shows that we're covering now , which are compared to other television shows , still like incredibly popular and have huge reach. And , you know , millions of people consume them every week. It's a I don't think you could , in good faith , say they animate the zeitgeist the way the Game of Thrones did. Right?
S1: Right? Like when Red wedding came out. The amount of people talking about it. Exactly.
S6: Exactly. It was the really did feel like the Super Bowl every Sunday night when Thrones was on , and we covered it that way. Right. We tried to like event wise , our coverage around the fact that for , uh , you know , a couple months every year , it was going to feel like the biggest thing happening in the world. You had to be there in real time. You weren't going to want to wait a couple nights later on streaming to catch up. You couldn't go on Twitter unless you were ready for spoilers. So it's a little bit different. But for what we do , I think counterintuitively , it has been an opportunity because , you know , you can take I'll go out of the nerd culture genre space for a second for maybe , I think , another ringer story that is emblematic here , something like succession , which in terms of sheer volume and mass , of how many people watch succession every watched succession every week in the world. It was not the same as Game of Thrones , but for the people who wanted to talk about succession , it was the most important thing in the world to them. And so I think that podcasting and the parasocial relationship , I use that as a term of endearment that people have to the podcasts and the shows that they love , uh , because there's so much and there are so many things every week. And you don't know , actually , if your friends are watching the same thing that you are or interested in talking about the same thing you are , you are seeking out , you are making a conscious decision to seek out community.
S1: So you mentioned the monoculture there. And um , at the same time , while there's , you know , so much content , right? Yeah. Some of these , you know , worlds are just also hugely vast. And , you know , having you here , I'm going to go to Game of Thrones. Right.
S6: Right.
S1: Let's do it. It's like based off these five books now we have multiple series prequels. Yeah. And anybody that's tried to read the books or even seen this , I mean , these are not simple stories.
S6: Oh , no no.
S1: No , no. And , um , my producer and I were kind of laughing about this , but , uh , you know , one thing I kind of see your role here is you're sort of like a lore keeper of everything. Wow.
S6: Wow.
S1: Thank you.
S6: Um , what an honor.
S1: And not. But what I'm saying is , like , it's not easy. It's so involved in in depth and even in , like , a recent episode , you kind of , like , carved out a spot for , like , hey , in the books. Let me. I'll tell you something later. Like , yeah. How do you approach. You know , just so much of these stories in this world that often people are taking very seriously. Yeah. And have , like , emotional reactions to when a plot twist happens.
S6: Yeah , yeah. And same I mean , like , I have cried on my podcast before talking about a character not petting a direwolf , and I'm sure that sounds deranged to people who don't maybe feel that way about it , but for me , it's a very insincere thing. Um , I. Okay , so here's the honest answer to your question. I can't believe I get to do this for my job. It's just like , wild to me , and I don't I , I take it really seriously. Like , I don't want to go on to an episode and not be prepared to do it well or to , you know , honor the time that people have chosen to give us by like half asking it. That's not how I approach it. I think there are ways to do podcasts that are much more like casual , and that is also wonderful. And we have we do that as well. And then there are shows that I go on that have that vibe. And the intention of House of are is a little bit distinct from that. We are really trying to to approach it with comprehension and depth. Because to your point , Andrew , there are people who are like , this is the fictional universe , that it is my escape that I find some sort of comfort in or belonging in , or that allowed me to like , see something , understand something about my own life differently. Right? Like the relationship that people form to the fictional universes that they love is can be one of the most meaningful things in their lives. And so if they have chosen to share that with us and we actually , genuinely , sincerely , earnestly also feel that way about it , then we want to give it everything we have with something like Thrones. To your point , it just frankly , I think necessitates and demands that level of prep and specificity , because , you know , the other thing is podcasting is just in a really different place than when we started doing this. There are millions and millions and millions and millions of podcasts and like a lot of them , are about Game of Thrones or the NFL or the NBA , right? And so we want to do something that feels , I think , simultaneously rooted in. It's always like what makes it distinct sometimes , hopefully the answer is the rapport and chemistry that the hosts have. I think that's a huge thing and a differentiator for our shows. Hopefully some of it is the quality of the analysis and the information. With something like A Song of Ice and Fire , where George R.R. Martin has created a world of I say this with real love and admiration for George , such depth and such sprawling intent that he has not been able to complete his own story. Right.
S1: Right.
S6: There are so many strands and threads on the tapestry that it is perhaps impossible to now complete. You know , it's part of what makes it rewarding and fun for us is to be able to find those bits of connective tissue to some aspect of the canon , or to a prior series to see in the choices that an adapter makes in one of the shows that we're getting now. Okay , what might this be setting up about something in the future? It's really like , I thought , a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms , which was on earlier this year , was just a sensationally good show , full of charm and heart and humor , but also one of the more deft adaptations of simultaneously , like faithfully bringing something from the printed page to the screen , but also really operating with an assured confidence of I understand the spirit of these things and what people love about the spirit of these things. I see stuff in season one of a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms that will , I feel , pay off in season 13 if they're making it for that long. We want to be able to talk to our audience about that. We feel like that's part of what they're coming to us to be able to identify.
S1: You mentioned , you know , author George R.R. Martin , their author of Game of Thrones. How important is it for you to understand the intent of the creators versus your own interpretation? Sure of it.
S6: That's an interesting question. I think that probably varies a little bit , you know , depending on on what it is. But I always want to and I think try to hopefully understand what the the author or screenwriter or director is , is trying to do. Because I think that the the artist's vision. You know , I think sometimes stories make it to a place where it feels like they belong to the fandom more than the person that maybe birthed them into the world in the first place. And that's kind of an interesting evolution to to watch and track in real time , and not something I think that's easy to anticipate until until it's there. But , you know , I think that like to stick with Thrones , knowing how George , I , I call him George like we're best friends. Let's be let's be clear , we've never met.
S1: But you. Spoken.
S6: Spoken.
S1: You spend a lot of time in his book.
S6: Feels like he's very present in my life. Yeah , because I spend so much time in the world he created , you know , knowing how he talks about how he studied Tolkien , who , of course , wrote Lord of the rings and how he talks about gardening. You know , you start somewhere and you tend and you see where your story goes. That's very different from certain writers who plot every aspect of their story out from the beginning. And so , like , that's something to keep in mind , because the approach to world building really does differ based on which type of creator a person is. I think also something like , you know , Joanna and I were just talking about this a couple of weeks ago covering House of the Dragon season three , episode three , where I thought that this version of George's kind of core intention of world building was very present in the adaptation. He gave this a , I think , in the Game of Thrones fandom , now famous rolling Stone interview in 2014. And I'm paraphrasing off the dome here , off the top of my head. But he was basically like , you know , Tolkien , uh , Lord of the rings. It's the one of the biggest influences. I love it , but what was Aragorn's tax policy? You know , all those orcs , did he go kill the little baby orcs and their little baby carriages? And so I can't read his books and not think about the fact that that's central to how he decided to write the world , right? That those are questions on his mind and questions he wants answered.
S1: Okay , finally , I think being where we are for Comic-Con , yeah , I did want to ask , you know , if you had any favorite movies or shows set in San Diego.
S6: Oh my goodness.
S1: There's a few obvious ones , but I'm curious what you come up.
S6: Well , the first thing that genuinely the first thing that pops into my mind , but this is a family friendly show , so I maybe have to bleep out my quote here , I don't know. Um , is Ron Burgundy you know , an anchorman saying a whale's vagina? Uh , that is the first thing that pops into my mind. It's just if I'm being honest. Um , yeah. Very formative. Text anchor. Ma'am. Uh , what would you throw out as the the Mount Rushmore of.
S1: I thought you were going to just say Top Gun. I mean , because that's the the the given top. Top gun , anchor man or Top Gun is.
S6: One top gun is certainly , I think , a contender for the lead spot.
S1: I mean , one battle after another is a more recent addition , but that has some like really core scenes here in San Diego. Yeah.
S6: Yeah.
S1: Great pick. Um , I also came up with sideways , which is a little deeper , deeper cut. They're all kind of a modest character.
S6: Yeah , but then they head up north. Right. You know.
S1: But his character is sort of set here. It's very interesting. It's kind of a sad portrayal of San Diego , actually.
S6: I love that movie. I just rewatched that movie a couple of months ago. Pretty good. Sideways is a banger , man.
S1: It's great. And then finally , one super deep cut , your HBO nerd. Is that fair to say?
S6: It is. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. This is like one only lasted one season. John from Cincinnati. Oh , sure. And it was set in Imperial Beach. That's right. And it's it was like the setting was really interesting. You know.
S6: Your show fun show.
S1: Was very strange. But Imperial Beach is like a really special place. And that was something.
S6: My husband is from San Diego. Oh , good. So there you go. That's my little. Is he here with me this week? No , but , you know , he's he's got family here , so. That's nice. Well , we love it here.
S1: Glad we could have you to kind of talk more and break down all this stuff and how you think about your work. It's really interesting. Mallory Rubin is the director of content at The Ringer. You can hear on the podcast House of R , as well as a lot of other ringer podcasts , and we'll have links to those. Mallory , thanks so much.
S6: Thank you so much for having me. What a treat.
S1: Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Brackett. Friendship , community and comics for San Diego bred comic artists Bobby Rubio and Keith Ann Jones. That's what the relationship has been built on since first meeting in the 1980s. Though their journeys from taking their childhood love of comics into a career in the arts often deviated from one another , they never strayed from those three integral pieces. Friendship , community. Comics Keith and Jones is the creator of the comic series The Power Knights. He's industry veteran , owner of the independent comic publishing house Kid Comics. He's also co-founder of Black Comics Day , which has been putting on now for nearly a decade. Bobby Rubio is a comic artist and animator who's worked for studios like Marvel , Pixar and Disney. He is the creator of the soon to be released comic neighborhood Legend Keith and Bobby. Welcome to roundtable.
S7: Thanks for having us. Thank you.
S1: So , Keith , and to start , I'm wondering , can you take us back to the day a young Keith and Jones walked into the school library at Bill Middle School to get introduced to someone who shared your interest in art.
S7: I think it was at Arvin. Arvin claims that he claims me one of our classmates came to. He claims he came. He coordinated the whole thing anyway. And , uh , he caught up to me in school , in class and said that there's a guy , uh , named Bobby Rubio who can draw like you or as good as you can. And I had not encountered anyone at my level that I can really. I don't know if respect. It's the right word , but , you know , I don't want to sound arrogant , but it's just I didn't run into a lot of folks that have my skill set. That's true. So , um , I kind of halfway believed them , so I was like , yeah , okay , I'll be there at lunch.
S1: And Bobby was similar to you. I mean , what did you what had you heard about Keaton and his artistic abilities at that point? Yeah.
S8: Yeah. I mean , because this is middle school , I was the best artist. And I'm pretty sure Keith in was the best artist in his elementary school. So I'm pretty sure we had , like , chips on his shoulders. And so it's funny , when you go to middle school for the first time and , uh , Arvin comes up and I say , hey , man , there's a guy that could draw super awesome. And I'm like , oh , let's see. And and so.
S1: Well , it's so funny how you kind of describe art as like , it's almost like a sport or like this competition. I mean , I think you even describe it as like having art battles. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. You know , we totally had art battles for sure.
S7: Like back in the day , it was just like breakdancing or.
S8: That's right. Yeah. Because , like , you gotta remember , it's like the 80s and hip hop just came about. And so.
S7: You hear about the guy on the block or near the neighborhood.
S1: You want to find out more about them and see. If.
S8: If.
S1: You can stack up. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S7: Yeah , yeah. When I saw his work for the first time , you know , I came up behind him , you know , and he was already drawing something in the library. And then , like I said , I wasn't expecting too much. And so when I saw the work , my heart skipped a little bit. I was like , oh , he's like me. He really is good , you know?
S1: So I want to talk about , you know , we kind of touched on your childhood and how you developed this love for comics , but it's one thing to have a kind of childhood love for something. It's another thing to pursue professionally. Yeah. And , like , keep doing it into adulthood. And I know you each had , you know , some similar journeys , but like , just struggles to kind of like , as any art maker , it's not easy , right? Right.
S8: Right. But also in the beginning we did have similarities because Keaton and I both wanted to be a comic book artist , and Keith and I put our own portfolios together to show to comic book editors , because back in the day , if you wanted to be a comic book artist , you built a portfolio of comic book pages and you would show them to editors. And so every year Keith and I would go as kids , we would go wander around looking for the Comic Con , and we would seek out comic book editors and show them our pages. Right. And so we did have that in common. We did start out that way.
S7: And the way that I , I know for me , the way I found out was through my dad , who , you know , I always tell the story. My dad was Navy man , right? And so , you know , if you're a Navy brat , you know , your your , your , your dad's going to be overseas months at a time. And during his downtime , he would read comic books on the ship. Right. And he would come home and just dump these books in my room , and he just kind of , you know , unknowingly made me into a comic book fiend. That developed into me wanting to actually make the comics. And so my dad , once again , when I was 15 , he took me to fourth and be at the old convention center where Comic-Con used to be , and he gave me a little bit of pocket change and told me to go into that building. I'll pick you up later and I will. What's in there? You'll see. It's kind of like Empire Strikes Back when you tell Luke to go into the cage.
S8: Oh , yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah , yeah.
S7: Like that. We'll see , you'll see. And so I went in there and it was like Nirvana was like , bam! I'm like , what? You can actually meet the creators of the comic books. Yeah. And through that experience , I learned that I like to dovetail to what he was saying. I learned that I needed to put a portfolio together to show these different publishers to get work. You know , and you're , you know , as a kid , you're you , you you don't think about the real world. You have no knowledge of the real world , and anything is possible. So I'm not thinking of the largeness of what I'm trying to do. Yeah. I'm saying , oh , I'm going to work for Marvel Comics. And so I , I , I put my portfolio together in the very next year. Um , I , like you said , I showed my stuff around and I picked up a job from Apple comics. Yeah. They're not around any longer. But , um , it was a Dracula story. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. Keith Anne got that first. He got the first.
S7: Good thing I got paid to do little eight pages. Did you know that?
S8: I did , you told after the fact , and I was like , that's pretty cool , man. Whatever.
S7: You were winning editorial editor , editorial contest and stuff , uh , at high school , and it's.
S8: Yeah , that's what's funny. It's like back and forth. We would have our wins for sure.
S1: The art battles continued.
S8: Yeah , they they would. And I mean , we were still rivals , but friendly rivals.
S7: Like , okay , listen. Unsaid competition like we didn't. Yeah. Yeah. Well I'm going to wind up , you know.
S8: I wasn't even like. That.
S7: That.
S1: Yeah , but but you talked about how kind of there have been some sort of booms and busts in the comic industry especially , you know , as , as y'all , you know , trying to make a living in this business , talk about , like , how you kind of face those challenges and approach that over the course of your career. Okay.
S8: Okay. When I to like Keith and Keith in first got that comic book gig and that was awesome. And I eventually got into the comic book industry by being an intern with Jim Lee at Wildstorm.
S1: Legendary figure?
S8: Yeah , yeah , he. His , uh , studio was in Mira mesa , and I was doing an internship with him with a bunch of other artists. This was in my date myself , but was 1994. And , um , this was after Cal Arts and which I graduated from. I had two internships , one with Jim Lee and one with Disney , and but afterwards , my heart was still in comic books and I. So I came back to Jim and I was like , hey , Jim , I'd like to still continue comics. What do you think? And he said , hey , Bobby , the comic book industry , just the bubble just burst. Like all Marvel just went bankrupt. It's , uh , everybody buying comics. That's not happening anymore. So I would suggest you go to animation. So from that point on , I just jumped and went to animation and started doing that. But as I was doing animation , it's great now , and Keith and I have been talking through the years and it's just like , that's cool to work on somebody else's project , but it's also cool to do our own stuff. And so I eventually I started my comic book Alcatraz High , and I was I was here at Comic-Con. I had a booth here for 15 plus years. Yeah , yeah yeah , yeah , yeah. So I would do the day job , which was awesome working at Disney and and and and Pixar and that's great. But I also wanted the creative itch of being an artist and my own stuff.
S7: You see he says that , right? He's like , he's pining to do comics and he's in the animation. So I'm looking at I'm on the outside looking in at his career and I'm like , oh man , Bobby gets to work on these big movies and all this. You know , he's hobnobbing with these big names , and he's going to the Oscars and all this stuff. And , um , so I was , like , really impressed with his career , too , even though I wasn't , you know , I was still doing the the comic book thing , but I was moonlighting more or less as a comic book artist. I was making my bones in graphic design , like in marketing companies and stuff like that. I had to pay my bills. So my skill set was going into that in that arena. But just like him , I would go home and I'm like , man , I'm still drawing these power nights. I'm still drawing these childhood characters.
S1: And I want to hear more about them because like , um , the Power nights you've been working on that you have that idea of.
S7: Since I was ten years old.
S8: I even saw it back then. It was crazy.
S1: Can you. Like , I don't know , just talk to us about how the process of developing a comic , like the work that goes into it and just. Yeah , how you think about it.
S7: Obviously , you got to start with , you have to have some type of story to hang everything on. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Is that where it started with Power Nights for you.
S8: You just I you know.
S7: When I initially created the characters , it was a it was a response to my enthusiasm over Teen Titans.
S8: Yeah , we both loved him.
S7: We were super hard. Quarantine Teen Titans and shout out to , um , recipes to George Perez.
S8: George Perez , her favorite comic book.
S7: And the writer was Marv Wolfman. He's still around. But to answer your question , I guess through osmosis and just absorbing that stuff , we started learning how to put a story structure together and plots and all this stuff , and and it spawned out into like , okay , I'm going to take the Titans and create my version of the Titans called Power Knights. And so but even back then , as a kid , I didn't really have a real cohesive , cohesive story. I couldn't , you.
S1: Know , it wasn't like a master law. Man.
S8: Man.
S7: Just kind of following whatever the Titans were doing , you know , just kind of aping that a little bit. Right? You know.
S1: Is that similar how you approached.
S8: I suppose I think , uh , for Neighborhood Legend I there was something I wanted to say. I wanted to create a Filipino superhero. And and I also wanted to I knew I wanted to have the story set in San Diego. And so in my mind , I was trying to think of like , moments that would be really , uh , cool in the book that would also , uh , fit the structure of the narrative. And so , I mean , I definitely had to have a taco shop in there. And , and I definitely had to have , like , some skating.
S7: When did that concept actually come into your mind?
S8: When did Neighborhood Legend came? You know what? I think it was just a want to have a superhero. Okay , here's what it was too , because there's a character that both Keith and I and I love , which is Nightwing. Right. And Nightwing , uh , he is Batman's protege , and he has sticks and he's a stick fighter , and that is a screamer and that. And I was like , that's awesome. Nightwing is doing the Filipino martial arts. And then I was like , wait a minute , wouldn't it be cool if it was a Filipino that was doing Filipino martial arts instead of me rooting for Nightwing? I mean , I love Nightwing , I still do , but I just feel like there needs to be representation. Um , and especially after I , I directed float , which was , uh , it's on Pixar. It was a Pixar animated short that featured the very first Filipino American lead characters. And from there , I just had to want to , like , create even more Filipino representation. And so and so in my mind , I was like , okay , let's do the Filipino version of Nightwing. Let's put in my , my version and and.
S1: And set in.
S8: Inception in.
S1: San Diego.
S8: Instead of Gotham City. And I think that's a cooler setting , in my opinion , I love San Diego.
S7: And also just , uh , to piggyback off of that , it's just like you said , even though we love these those traditional characters like Spider-Man and Teen Titans , uh , X-Men and all that stuff. Um , the truth of the matter is , is that there wasn't a lot of , um , representation from our , our world , our.
S8: Our community.
S7: At all community. And , um , as , as kids , you're not really thinking about that so much. But as you get older , you you start to it becomes more apparent , you know? And so it's like , well , man , I do have the skill set to , to make a difference. Yeah. So there's nothing really stopping me. Right.
S8: Right.
S7: So let me go ahead and try to put something together that represents where I'm at least represents my culture. But also , um , it's entertaining for anyone outside of the culture. Right.
S1: Right. And for that , you've founded Black Comics Day. Yeah. About , you know , eight , nine years ago it's been running. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. And that wasn't. Yeah. It's just that wasn't even on my bucket They said just fell in my lap through my mom because she. She's a fundraiser for the Malcolm X Library on Euclid. And so they were like , hey , we want to do something different for Black History Month. Well , you think you could do something comic book related? And then I would say , yeah , I don't have time for that. But then I said , wait a minute , maybe , maybe I could put some type of comic con together where. Yeah. Um , since we've all been kind of complaining about representation , maybe this is an opportunity to get something started , you know? Um , yeah. So it was kind of a test , a test bed. And here , here I am , almost nine years later doing this show still. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. I mean , that's a tribute to Keaton's leadership qualities. I mean , if he was terrible at it , it would have failed a long time ago. And like , I see it in Keaton and he's a voice of his community. And , you know , I'm so proud of Keith and what he's accomplished.
S7: I appreciate. It.
S8: It. Yeah , man , every time I , I was like , when you first had it , I was like , I'm gonna show up to it , man. I gotta , I gotta be there and like , uh , yeah , man , Keith is awesome. And and I think that now that we have a platform like Keith and has a platform , I have a platform like we're all , we should do something with it. And also to like what's great about Keith and and I is also that we are telling stories from a authentic place. Like we really grew up , uh , Filipino , African American. So we have that perspective and it's authentic. It's we're really telling you how it is. We're not faking it.
S7: It's there's just a there's a fat there's a texture there that can only come from someone that's experience. People always say , well , they created everything out there. What what else is there to create? And it's like it's not being a rich. It's not about being original. It's about being like he said. Authentic. Right. So you could tell the same story. I mean , people were telling. Everyone's telling the same stories , right? But if it's coming from your personal experience , that's what's going to make it unique.
S8: And it'll add the different flavor. Yeah , definitely a different flavor to it.
S7: Are you aware of its float film? The film that he made for.
S1: Oh , the Pixar? No , I haven't seen it.
S8: Oh you should.
S7: So yeah , that was a perfect example of authenticity , of authenticity , because it's your relationship with your real life autistic son. Mhm. That's a story he put together based on his reality. Uh , in anime , you know , in animated form , of course. But , um , that's what I mean. Like , I can't tell that story. Like Keith. And we want you to tell us. I can only go so far because I don't have any real life experience raising a child in that that way. Right. So he can go places where I can't. Right.
S8: Right.
S7: And that's what we mean by , um , being authentic. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S1: So you both are on a panel together here at Comic-Con Friday. I'm going to be talking more about your work and your friendship , right? Yeah. We started this conversation talking about that school library to our kids meeting up. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S1: I'm wondering , like how each of you are thinking about your now , what , 330 , 40 year long friendship? I know , and sharing.
S8: Your story here. 1010? No , no. Yesterday.
S7: Yesterday.
S8: I know , I just graduated last week.
S1: 80s were a long time ago. Crazy.
S8: Oh my God. That's true. We can't hide it back. Oh , it's true friendship , man. The the the crazy thing is , I think true friendship. Like you could bail a little bit and then come back and you're like pals , and it's easy. And that's always how it's been with Keith. And because Keith and I , like , we have our moments when we're not together , but when we are , it's like , what's up , dude? Like right back up , right back where we left off.
S7: But I trip out that we're every time as the years go by. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S7: I just like , like this year I'm like , wow , I was doing this , that in the third , and I'm doing this , that in the third. And and it's like we're still hearing it. It's like we're the OGs of San Diego. It feels like. And we're doing these things that as kids , we only used to sit in the bedroom and like , oh , I wonder what? I wonder what those guys are doing at the Marvel studio right now. And just like , what are they doing? And and here we are doing these things now , like we're on the I guess what I'm saying. We're on the other side of the fence now where we're on the , the , the production side of it as far as the consuming side of it.
S8: And , and also , I guess from the emotional part , I mean , I will tell you , when I first met Keith and I was like , we I mean , I don't know about him , but I was a rival to him. I was like , whenever I saw his stuff , I was like , oh man , Keith , it's good , but I'm not going to tell him that. And but like , uh , but now , like , I love Keith. He's one of my best friends. Thanks , man. And so it it's funny. It's like the , it's just the evolution of it all. And like whenever I have especially neighbor living legend , which is very personal to me , the first one of the first guys I showed it to is Keith in. Yeah. Because I was like , that's the guy I trust. This guy knows what I , what I'm trying to say. And Keith was , was and he won't lie to me and I know that. And like , yeah , in fact , you're like , dude , it's kind of boring. Like the first pass , I was like , what? He's gotta add more action to it. I'm like , uh , like , all right , all right. But , you know , you could take that from a friend that you actually admire and respect his work. I respect Keith. And so like , yeah , I was like , alright , dude. All right , all right , all right.
S7: I'm saying vice versa. Like , I mean , in my mind as a kid looking at his stuff , I was like , God dang , how is he doing this stuff? Like , cause in my mind's eye , I'm like , he's already professional. I'm still trying to figure this out. Not like the stuff he was doing. And just like , just because. That he's doing the stuff that turned me on as an artist , like. Right. We had common influencers , but when looking at this stuff , I was like , like , this dude's amazing , man. And I could sit there like , you know , I would , I would take. Remember , I was like , can I get that sketch? Oh , yeah. You know what? I would take it home and I would just sit there and study it , you know , like every little line , like , man , Bobby did that , and I don't know if I can. Um , it was. I guess the word I'm looking for is intimidating. It's intimidating.
S8: Well , it's vice versa. Same thing. Same with. Me.
S1: Me. It's been great to hear about , I don't know. You're like each your own creative journeys , but also just your friendship across this span of time. And thank. You.
S8: You.
S1: And just thanks so much for sharing it with us. I've been speaking with comic book artists and friends Keith and Jones and Bobby Rubio. Keith is the owner of Kid Comics , founder of Black Comics day happens in San Diego each year. Bobby Rubio's comic book artist and animator. His latest comic is called Neighborhood Legend Keith and Bobby. Thanks again.
S8: Thank you.
S7: No problem , no problem man , thanks for having me.
S1: And both Bobby and Keith are appearing at a Comic-Con panel later today , Friday , starting at 630. It's called From Paradise Hills to Comic-Con. That'll do it for this week's roundtable. Thanks so much for joining us today. And to all of my guests this week. If you have any thoughts on today's show , you can always email us at roundtable at KPBS. And also leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables technical producer is Brandon Truffaut. The show is produced by Ashley Rush and Giuliana Domingo. Brooke Ruth is roundtable senior producer , and I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again for joining us and have a great Comic-Con weekend.
